Brainstorming Before Vet Visit Tomorrow

Bluebird Gal said:

 
GAH!!  We have about 4-5 more little scabby spots that popped up here & there on Monty.   These are tiny mind you, very tiny little scabs.  A couple back around his neck area where they first started, and this is the first time I've felt any on the inside of a hind leg.  Poor little guy (not to mention our pocketbook) just can't seem to get a break. 

I guess the great news is his sneezes have remained very low in comparison to where we started.  He now only sneezes clear, at most, 2-4x/day which is way, way down from the 15-20x/day when we started having these issues overall.

Oddly enough, no matter what the "specialist" stated I'm now more convinced than ever it is something food related.  Reason being - as much as I don't like the idea of experimenting - ultimately you have to add back in things that may be the trigger to hopefully ID it so we can all get past this. 

I specifically asked the specialist, since he stated he had no reason to believe it was a food allergy, if I should rotate back in the food we had been feeding.  His answer was yes, and now we're back to the little scabs even though not remotely near the number he had before.  So over the past 3 days he has had one of his two wet meals a day of the Friskies Chicken shreds.  I continue feeding the Instinct rabbit kibble because they both seem to love it.  No supplements other than the salmon oil.  He did thieve some of Si's FF chicken & turkey kibble but only about 5-6 pieces.  So I have to believe something in one of those - chicken or whatever else is in that stuff - may be the trigger.

Little guy is still licking himself silly, but he never really quit doing that, even when the original scabs went away.  The rescue remedy, at least in our case, has not seemed to help lessen the stress I'm sure he must feel over constantly being itchy.  Hopefully Monday the vet will have the Feliway spray back in stock so we can start trying that.

My hats are off, and my heart certainly goes out, to all of you dealing with kitties with any sort of allergy.  This has only been going on 3wks for us now and I'm ready to pull my own hair out. 

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Sorry to read that you are still dealing with this ...

From reading all of your posts, it sounds to me like the itching and scabbing is more the result of an external cause rather than food allergy. Has your vet checked for ear mites or mange mites or a possible yeast infection. All of these would cause scratching and itchiness. You can do a quick check in his ears to see if you can detect an odor. This is one symptom of possible yeast infection. Has anybody done any scrapings of the scabs to test for yeast or other bacterial infection? If not, I would add this to the list of things to do, which should determine the cause, or at least narrow down the possibilities.

Our newest addition (Thomas) came bearing a mild case of fleas. All cats were promptly dosed with Advantage, plus the whole house got a full cleaning from top to bottom and rooms were sprayed with a specially-formulated aerosol to treat carpets, couches, wall joints, etc. Thankfully these efforts took care of the problem. Adult fleas can lay hundreds of eggs during their cycle which can survive in cracks of floors and between wall joints for some time only to re-infect cats some time later, so the aerosol sprays are a good thing to do. I know you have mentioned that you have checked for fleas but sometimes they are hard to detect, so its worth looking more closely into this possibility. Here is a link to more information on flea allergies : http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/skin/c_ct_flea_bite_hypersensitivity

Hope you can get to the bottom of this real soon. All the best of luck!  

oneandahalfcats said:

 
Sorry to read that you are still dealing with this ...

From reading all of your posts, it sounds to me like the itching and scabbing is more the result of an external cause rather than food allergy. Has your vet checked for ear mites or mange mites or a possible yeast infection. All of these would cause scratching and itchiness. You can do a quick check in his ears to see if you can detect an odor. This is one symptom of possible yeast infection. Has anybody done any scrapings of the scabs to test for yeast or other bacterial infection? If not, I would add this to the list of things to do, which should determine the cause, or at least narrow down the possibilities.

Our newest addition (Thomas) came bearing a mild case of fleas. All cats were promptly dosed with Advantage, plus the whole house got a full cleaning from top to bottom and rooms were sprayed with a specially-formulated aerosol to treat carpets, couches, wall joints, etc. Thankfully these efforts took care of the problem. Adult fleas can lay hundreds of eggs during their cycle which can survive in cracks of floors and between wall joints for some time only to re-infect cats some time later, so the aerosol sprays are a good thing to do. I know you have mentioned that you have checked for fleas but sometimes they are hard to detect, so its worth looking more closely into this possibility. Here is a link to more information on flea allergies : http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/skin/c_ct_flea_bite_hypersensitivity

Hope you can get to the bottom of this real soon. All the best of luck!

 

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Thanks for the suggestions!  We have not done any skin scrapes, however they did take a look under a black light at his fur & looked at the scabs under a microscope.   His ear cytology has been perfect the two times they have checked.  Nothing going on there or any smell.  When we go back in to work tomorrow, I'm going to set an appointment with another vet in a different town.  I'm as frustrated as the current vet is right now & was hoping to feel better talking to the visiting specialist.  I didn't. 

It is just odd that he was in our home for over a full month before the little scabs popped up out of nowhere.  It's not flea season where we are & even chatting with friends around the campground who have dogs outside all the time - no one has had any flea issues.   Nothing in our home has changed since he arrived.  Same mild cleaners, fabric softeners, etc.   We don't use any air fresheners sprays, nor carpet fresh sort of stuff.  The only thing he would have been exposed to, per se, are airborne from having the windows open in our motorhome, or the DH & I petting him.  I would have thought any airborne allergens would have more manifested themselves through sneezing more like a human.  

We have one more prednisone (Tuesday) to go before we move to the tapering off dose, but I am also quite surprised that the scabs popped back up again after having gone completely away after Day 3 of the steroid.  

I appreciate the flea sensitivity link.  At the advice of the vet, we had not yet given him the round of Revolution he was due in January, since we were trying to sort all these other things out.

Thanks for the encouraging words & we sure hope to get this figured out soon too!  Maybe a 3rd set of eyes - new vet - will be able to help.

I just skimmed through the posts. I commend you for trying to get to the bottom of this with Monty. You're a great parent. 

Allergies don't always creep up overnight and can take time to build up and show symptoms, so a month being in your home before symptoms started doesn't sound off base to me. Cats can be allergic to almost anything...just like humans. Food, pollen, certain fabrics and materials, clay litter, chemicals. This makes things much more difficult. The top protein allergens are poultry, beef and fish. Latex, wool, and plastic can be an issue. An acquaintance of mine had an old wool sweater that they had re-purposed as a cat blanket and it caused big time itching. (Just an example.) A clay litter sensitivity can cause both contact dermatitis and sneezing. Have you looked into trying a different litter?

I do think it's important to work with your vet(s) to rule out fleas, parasites and certain autoimmune diseases that affect the skin.

I hope Monty starts feeling comfortable soon.   

I have a question: what's the timing of the first dose of clavamox in relation to the symptoms of allergies?

I don't think he's allergic to clavamox, but I'm finding it to be very common that clavamox is related to ... things going wrong with gut health / immune system function, which can be expressed as allergies, and in many cats, it appears to have triggered IBD.

Have you considered putting him on a good probiotic, and using the lysine and lactoferrin, as if he had herpes?

Pawley was given a cerenia shot to clear up his bacterial URI. It didn't seem to be the right antibiotic for it, as he still had goopey eyes with green excretion. We'd started him on a probiotic - well, while he was in boarding the vet, actually - but started him on 125mg of lactoferrin AM and PM last week. The lysine arrived Saturday (500mg AM and PM) and he already looks better! I don't know Monty's weight, but if he's a growing kitty, the doses would be half those of an adult.

LDG said:

I have a question: what's the timing of the first dose of clavamox in relation to the symptoms of allergies?

I don't think he's allergic to clavamox, but I'm finding it to be very common that clavamox is related to ... things going wrong with gut health / immune system function, which can be expressed as allergies, and in many cats, it appears to have triggered IBD.

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On 12.10.13 we had our first 10-day round of Clamavox as he did have a mild URI that presented within 48hrs of adopting him.

Again on 01.08.14 we were given another 10-day round of Clamavox while we awaited the C & S test results.  We stopped taking it Day 5 (out of 10) when we received negative results from the C&S.

The little scabs appeared about 15 days later.

LDG said:

Have you considered putting him on a good probiotic, and using the lysine and lactoferrin, as if he had herpes?

Pawley was given a cerenia shot to clear up his bacterial URI. It didn't seem to be the right antibiotic for it, as he still had goopey eyes with green excretion. We'd started him on a probiotic - well, while he was in boarding the vet, actually - but started him on 125mg of lactoferrin AM and PM last week. The lysine arrived Saturday (500mg AM and PM) and he already looks better! I don't know Monty's weight, but if he's a growing kitty, the doses would be half those of an adult.

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I haven't looked into a probiotic yet, but up until our recent appt. with a visiting specialist 4 days ago:  I had him 250mg/2x/day of Lysine and had just started the Lactoferrin at 1/2 capsule.   Monty came to us 6.5lbs on 12.08.13 and currently he is 8.2lbs.

The specialist, although he understood about the Lysine, another that had not yet heard of the Lactoferrin, so I provided him the Medwell Journal link

But he recommended while we are taking prednisone to forego all of that, with the exception of the alaskan salmon oil.  So that's what we were currently doing. 

I also invested in the 2DOC allergy defense pills; however he has not had one of those yet.  They didn't arrive until after our specialist appt.

GoHolistic said:

 
I just skimmed through the posts. I commend you for trying to get to the bottom of this with Monty. You're a great parent. 

Allergies don't always creep up overnight and can take time to build up and show symptoms, so a month being in your home before symptoms started doesn't sound off base to me. Cats can be allergic to almost anything...just like humans. Food, pollen, certain fabrics and materials, clay litter, chemicals. This makes things much more difficult. The top protein allergens are poultry, beef and fish. Latex, wool, and plastic can be an issue. An acquaintance of mine had an old wool sweater that they had re-purposed as a cat blanket and it caused big time itching. (Just an example.) A clay litter sensitivity can cause both contact dermatitis and sneezing. Have you looked into trying a different litter?

I do think it's important to work with your vet(s) to rule out fleas, parasites and certain autoimmune diseases that affect the skin.

I hope Monty starts feeling comfortable soon. 

 

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Thanks for your input GoHolistic.   We use the Tidy Cat Breeze pellet system.  Although the pads are scented, they are in the bottom tray away from the litter or his feet.  The pellet/litter itself is 99.9% dust free.  We have not yet tried another litter choice.

They were both eating primarily Friskies chicken, or turkey pate varieties with the occasional salmon pate rotated through.  And our older boy is primarily a FF chicken in gravy freak, so I know Monty helped him finish off his dish from time to time.

Other than the occasional thieving of big brother's food, Monty has remained on Instinct rabbit wet & their rabbit meal kibble for 2+ weeks.   Until our specialist visit 4 days ago when he told me he could not fathom that a 5mo old kitten would have a food allergy (he had never seen any personally, but his feline experience is related to exotics) so he said it was fine to rotate our older foods back into his rotation like we had been.

This is when I believe the very few tiny scabs that popped up may have originated.  Somewhere between the Friskes chicken, or turkey or the FF chicken.

I'm not sure at this point if the prednisone is what made his month+ long bout of sneezies go away or if that too, may truly, be an airborne allergen.   Now we're only dealing with his skin issue and a very occasional clear sneeze if our windows are open and any amount of wind is blowing.  I'm in process now of cleaning all our window screens with a toothbrush.  Ha!

Edited to add on the materials:  We both wear primarily cotton everything.  Even the throws we have over our furniture are either cotton sheets or comforters.  Their beds are both fleece.  Actually their bed is a big fleece blanket that they ball up into on the fleece side.  We do have carpet in 2 sections of our motorhome, but ever since we had Si we purchased a hepa vaccum cleaner and vaccum 3x a week.

Bluebird Gal said:

But he recommended while we are taking prednisone to forego all of that, with the exception of the alaskan salmon oil.  So that's what we were currently doing. 

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Hunh, I wonder why?

Maybe he just wants to see how the pred helps. :dk:

LDG said:

Hunh, I wonder why?

Maybe he just wants to see how the pred helps.

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I think that is all that he had in mind.  That's why I didn't feel any better after chatting with him.  I'm calling them today to see if they got in the Feliway spray that I ordered and to get Monty's prescription today to start tapering off this prednisone.  We work today & Tuesday but I hope to get us worked into another vet's office in the next town over for yet a 3rd set of eyes early in the week.   Really wishing I could click my heels and be back in D/FW right now so I could at least have access to a feline only specialist. 

Sounds like you could be dealing with both a food and an environmental allergy. Could be why it's taking longer to determine the culprit and why no one thing is making s huge difference. Wonder if fish could be a culprit??

Also, like someone else said, environmental allergies can develop overtime.

I have dealt with more cases of food allergy than I have environmental. 3 of my cats have food allergies as do 2 of my parents' cats. We have had several cats in the rescue have protein intolerances too. Not sure why the specialist said food allergies are rare other than he deals with exotic breeds. Or, maybe we've just hit the food allergy "jackpot" lol!

CatPack said:

Sounds like you could be dealing with both a food and an environmental allergy. Could be why it's taking longer to determine the culprit and why no one thing is making s huge difference. Wonder if fish could be a culprit??

Also, like someone else said, environmental allergies can develop overtime.

I have dealt with more cases of food allergy than I have environmental. 3 of my cats have food allergies as do 2 of my parents' cats. We have had several cats in the rescue have protein intolerances too. Not sure why the specialist said food allergies are rare other than he deals with exotic breeds. Or, maybe we've just hit the food allergy "jackpot" lol!

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It was all I could do not to hand him a link to this site & have him search the word "allergy" if he didn't have any experience with it

With the exception of a salmon oil supplement 2x/week he's only had the Friskies Salmon pate maybe 3x since we got him in December, but I have removed even that from his diet at this point just in case.  I'm leaning much more towards either the chicken or turkey varieties we've fed all along. 

I just haven't been clear on the environmental allergies as with my DH, if he's not on his regular meds, he can get a whiff of mountain cedar for instance & almost instantly have tears running down his face, sneezing, hacking, etc.

Mountain Cedar is EVIL and affects even my cats!  Thankfully, mountain cedar season is ending soon here.

stephanietx said:

 
Mountain Cedar is EVIL and affects even my cats!  Thankfully, mountain cedar season is ending soon here.

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Right now Cedar & Elm has been running in the Moderate to High realm.  And of course, we've had our windows open too. 

Well, I decided today that I'm going to forego the thoughts of the 'specialist' we saw and get back to trying to help Monty.  So tonight's wet meal I've added back the 1/2 cap of Lactoferrin. I am going to switch back to the human grade Omega 3 oil in lieu of the Salmon oil on the off chance there is something fish or fish by-product related.  And I will take his advice that I need to ditch the human grade Lysine & order the NOW brand which is actually FDA approved.

Although the specialist indicated it would be fine to rotate back in the foods we were serving - I'm nixing that and going back to the rabbit/rabbit meal kibble grain/gluten free only until we can snag an appt. with a vet in a town over from us later this week.

Maybe a fresh set of eyes who have not been involved will have a new perspective.  I very much appreciate the vet that we've been seeing here.  I know she has taken every step that almost everyone here has been through with their allergy kitties:  antihistamines, vetalog injection, another antihistamine, then a steroid .. but since this is a small island, it is a  1-vet office with a pretty hearty business load & I believe she may be at her threshold of medical expertise to help.

We did pick up the Feliway spray, along with the prednisone pills to start a tapering off dose.

** This brings a large question to my mind.  The prescription is for 30 pills to be cut in half to 2.5mg and taken daily until gone.  I totally understand prednisone as my sweet Mom spent the last 25yrs of her life on it for serious, serious health issues -- however, for Monty -- is 60 more days of this for a 5mo old kitten warranted???  Just your general opinions.  Should I request bloodwork at the new vet?   Some baseline for us?  

I gave the common kitty lounging areas a couple of spritzes of the Feliway this afternoon.  Must be incredibly powerful as they both were standing on their hind legs like little Lemurs sniffing the air  

Third, and final, vet visit for now for little Monty. 

We booked an appointment with the animal clinic that Monty originated at.  Our vet was thrilled to see him & that he had found a forever home with two very involved cat parents.  

We also were able to find out what little history there was on Monty & his baby sister - they were left in a box outside the clinics door in September 2013 at about 4wks old.  They lived at the clinic until for a couple of months getting all their shots and fixed before going to the shelter in hopes of finding permanent homes which was about a month before we adopted him.

We discussed everything we had been through with whatever allergen we are dealing with.   She performed a skin scrape in 3 different areas to see if we had missed anything.  Results were negative.  And she explained that being on prednisone he would have been way worse were it mites or mange because the immune system is compromised.   

Ears were totally clear.  Again heart & lungs sounded great.  He weight in a 9.1lbs which is right on track with +/- 1lb per month growth rate for a kitten.   She too, dismissed the over grooming as a behavior of any stress in this little guy.  Another vet, another belly up purring machine as a patient. 

We discussed the 60 days worth of 2.5mg prednisone we were to administer as a tapering dose, and she agreed with us, that was a bit excessive and she generally tapers off and done after 10 days maximum so that is what we are going to do.

It is rather curious to me, and maybe it is just different from one part of the country to the other, but she too thought a food allergy would be highly unlikely in a kitten his age.  Not impossible, but in her 15yrs experience, rare.   She explained (the DH came with me this time) the differences and subsequent reactions to contact -vs- airborne allergens and expects Monty's is airborne.

I explained that we clearly saw the little scabs, no matter how few, reappear once I took the suggestion of the specialist we visited to rotate back in the old foods - being Friskies and FF - of various wet varieties.   She suggested what we had already planned on - just keeping him on the grain/gluten free foods going forward no matter.  Hopefully we'll be able to convince his big brother it's better for him too.

So that is where we'll remain unless or until something pops up to the contrary.

I am not discrediting your vet, but wanted to add...
We have gotten kittens as young as 12 weeks old that have had food allergies. Maybe it isn't that common; but, I would not say a food allergy at 9 months is "rare." Max was diagnosed at 5 months (allergic to beef and rabbit.)

Hope you are able to determine Monty's allergy soon!

CatPack said:

I am not discrediting your vet, but wanted to add...
We have gotten kittens as young as 12 weeks old that have had food allergies. Maybe it isn't that common; but, I would not say a food allergy at 9 months is "rare." Max was diagnosed at 5 months (allergic to beef and rabbit.)

Hope you are able to determine Monty's allergy soon!

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I totally understand CatPack .. I've reminded all three that we've seen that it is far from rare, just based on this forum alone.  But if the vets in this area of South Texas, specifically we're on an island, have never seen it I guess it might be rare to them. 

His itchiness has lessened over the past several days and his grooming, while still more than I care for, is not so excessive he's pulling bits of hair out like his skin is driving him crazy.  I truly believe it's because he's off the chicken/turkey products we are feeding our older boy and back on the rabbit only.