Brainstorming Before Vet Visit Tomorrow

bluebird gal · Jan 22, 2014

I'm back at it, trying to figure out what's still going on with our little man Monty before our next vet visit tomorrow. I last left off with

1. Test results were negative & she was shocked since on Wednesday he had yellow'ish mucus coming out when sneezing at her office.
2. Based on the results, she recruited a friend of hers who is a cat specialist to discuss.

3. We're going to stop the Clamavox (all antibiotics is what the specialist told her) and that's the only one we're on.

4. See what happens over the next 7 days ie., if the snots come back with any color.

5. At that point the specialist recommends a PCR test for herpes. Even though he hasn't exhibited all of the signs I've read about here that may or may not manifest (goopy eyes, loss of appetite, etc.) He's had none of those symptoms. He had a few eye boogers when we first all thought it was a URI but those went away on the first round of Clamavox.

6. I had already discussed Lysine powder in both their foods. At the 250mg/day for Monty and 250mg/day for Si. She informed me at that time that, of course, that was generally used to treat cats with Herpes, but we didn't think "we" might be in that category as everything appeared to be your standard URI.

Monty does continue to sneeze, but it's clear. And as I mentioned above, the frequency of his sneezes is practically non-existent in comparison. Including today, he's probably sneezed 10x over a 5.5 days span, and as we've been trying to sort this out, he was sneezing up to 10-15x per day with an audibly stuffy head when you listened up close.

So although we're happy the results were negative, that just points to something else, or so it seems.

Click to expand...

We stopped the Clamavox and waited. We still have, including new stuff, that I believe may finally be pointing us the right direction - airborne/food allergy.

1. Still sneezing clear. Over 10days he did have one sneeze that (excuse the graphic) produced a sticky, greenish booger. And one more sneeze that produced a sticky, red-tinged booger.

But now .. we have

2. Itchy Skin

First they were beneath both ears
Then around hind quarters
Then around the front leg/armpit area

3. Tiny little scabs (no fleas as the DH & I have not had a bite, our big boy is not scratching, etc.) And I groom them both with a plastic flea comb so I would have discovered one it they were there.

4. Gassy .. quite stinky little toots

5. Licking & nibbling at those little scabby spots. While some very small tufts of hair have come off, he has not licked down completely to the skin or any redness, nor bleeding. Just overly grooming IMO.

6. One bowel movement produced a normal amount of poo but one turd was solid black fur. (both boys groom each other also) .

We have been feeding (both boys) Fancy Feast and Friskies canned. As a catch all, pates and sometimes the gravy varieties, it is primarily chicken and turkey and once a week I may give them the salmon pate.

For a kibble snack, I ran out of my EVO chicken/turkey and fed Fancy Feast chicken/turkey (which both go crazy for like it's kitty crack). However, we have successfully (with much protest from our older boy) weaned them back to a 1/3cup serving 2x per day now. This is way down from the 1/2cup serving each per day.

Monty has been supplemented with 250mg Lysine powder both AM and PM for 2wks now, and although, his sneezing frequency has lessened a lot, we are still sneezing. I "think" I understand from all the info here that if he had herpes the lysine would bring the sneezing to a halt at some point. Other than his original URI diagnosis he has never exhibited any of the classic additional signs of a form of herpes virus. I even tried bumping his dosage up to 500mg AM/PM over 5 days with no change in the sneezing. What I find the most curious -- Si did not care for Instinct lamb -- so I continued to feed it solely to Monty and am racking my brain to connect the dots on that versus going back to the FF/Friskies poultry wet foods. I plan to journal daily the 2wk grain free diet we're about to embark on.

We are headed to the local PetsMart tomorrow to pick up a 2wk supply of various totally grain free canned food for Monty alone to see if this changes anything and I know I'll be discussing with the vet another antihistamine to try out and/or what OTC brands and what dosages for his weight.

Are there any specific things I can try to ease his itchy little skin? He is totally behaving like a 5mo kitten in all other aspects .. appetite, litterbox, play levels, but I sure want this little guy to be as issue free as we can get him.

ALL thoughts & contributions welcome!

ondine · Jan 22, 2014

It does sound more and more like an allergy - either food (the itchy skin) or in the environment (the sneezing). Good luck at the vet tomorrow!

cprcheetah · Jan 22, 2014

It does sound like an allergy. Chlorampheniramine is a really good antihistamine to use in cats. I think it's 1/2 of a 4mg tablet twice a day. DeeJay was on it for a while. If your vet suggests benadryl don't use it, it is not very effective in cats at all.

bluebird gal · Jan 23, 2014

cprcheetah said:
It does sound like an allergy. Chlorampheniramine is a really good antihistamine to use in cats. I think it's 1/2 of a 4mg tablet twice a day. DeeJay was on it for a while. If your vet suggests benadryl don't use it, it is not very effective in cats at all.

Thank you. We tried one round of Benadryl and he sneezed the entire way through it. So I have made a laundry list of what I've read others have treated their allergy kitties with to ask about today.

bluebird gal · Jan 23, 2014

Well, he definitely had an allergy of some sort triggered. He has done quite a bit of thinning of his fur on his little bib and hindquarters with the excessive grooming. Since not one thing in our household has changed, laundry soap, cleaners, etc. she believes it is probably a food allergy.

So we are starting Chlorampheniramine today to get the itching under control. And she advised us to pick one flavor of grain-free food and stick with it for a week to see if it changes things. She thought it would be difficult to determine which of the 3-5 different wet foods I rotate for them might be the culprit, hence the suggestion to try something he has never had that is not chicken or turkey. I'm going to look at the Wellness and Instinct lines and try the venison or duck. He has already had the Instinct Lamb and liked it so I may just go back to that.

She really didn't want to start him on a steroid yet since he is only 5mos old. And I agree. She did let me know that if it got to the point of licking totally bald spots that we would have to. Either that or whatever the chemical name is for xanax. Something I'd rather not have him on either

She did tell me to keep him on the Lysine 250mg 2x/day and to switch over to salmon oil versus the human grade omega 3 fish oil that I've had him on for 2wks now. She did say his coat, where he had not thinned it out, looked wonderful from the fish oil, but she prefers, for cats to be on a salmon oil overall. And she said when the human grade Lysine I have runs out to order the Lysine powder for cats so I'll be doing that later today.

And, of course, he never sneezed once while we were there.

bluebird gal · Jan 26, 2014

Day Four of the Chlorampheniramine and we're still itchy and over-grooming, however it seems to have lessened a tiny bit.

I ended up going with the Instinct Rabbit wet and Rabbit meal kibble on the vet recommendation to pick a meat he had not been exposed to and sticking with it for the duration of the antihistamine. He loves the rabbit, and although our older boy won't touch the wet, he dove right into the kibble too.

Any other thoughts on how to soothe the itchiness? I am already giving him the required dose of Wild Alaska salmon oil.

I guess I'm not even sure when I should expect to see any changes in the itchies. The vet indicated 72hrs should see improvement, but that does not seem to have happened. And others here have stories of weeks before they saw marked improvement.

Would what I call a spay-sock (like some vets use so the cat can't get to the stitches) be called for to keep him from continuing to thin his hair out so bad?

Just makes me want to cry that I can't get this under control for him .. and fix it

stephanietx · Jan 26, 2014

Since he's actively sick, I'd up the Lysine to 1000mg a day (500mg 2x a day). That's the flare up dose. The maintenance dose is 500mg a day.

Since all the itchies started after the meds, I'm wondering if he's allergic to the medication.

bluebird gal · Jan 26, 2014

I started this morning with the 500mg in his food just to see what happens.

He was only on Clamavox, and since he was still sneezing, we stopped all medications to see if the mucus changed color, which would have prompted the vet to give him a PCR test. It never changed color. Still clear.

However, while we were awaiting the no medications at all week time frame the vet suggested to see if the mucus changed color, he started being itchy and over-grooming all of a sudden. This is what prompted her to think it may very well be a food allergy.

So now we're trying everything she recommended (grain free, novel protein) to see if it is, indeed a food allergy, but he's still itchy. He's not totally licked himself bald, or licked sores onto himself. Nothing like that, but he is quite focused on overgrooming his bib, belly and hindquarters even on the antihistamine. It just doesn't seem like the antihistamine is doing anything for him.

bluebird gal · Jan 28, 2014

Well, I just feel rotten for doing it, but we are all, vet included, still stumped over Monty's continued over grooming & the recurring scabby areas that continue to pop up, and go away, in the same patterns that a food allergy would. Neck (beneath the ears), bib and hindquarters. I have not felt any on his belly but he overgrooms that area sometimes pulling little tufts of fur off too. He still scratched and licked himself non-stop through a 7-day round of Chlorampheniramine.

So today we started a short round of prednisone to try and get this under control until we can eliminate what allergen is setting this off. If we ever do. One 5mg tablet/per day for 5 days, then one 5mg every other day until they are gone which is a total of 10 pills over 15 days.

I do realize that a food allergy may take up to a month or more after the change to a novel protein, but the over grooming has just so aggravated the poor thing that he's just not acted himself for the last week. He does still have a normal appetite, normal litter box habits, water consumption and playtime. Although, the longer this has gone on even the playtime with us, or his big brother, has waned. It is just breaking my heart because he's only 5mos old. He does still have his moments of pure kitten crazies, but he can't even play without stopping to lick or scratch.

My current plan of action:

Continue the Instinct Rabbit wet, and the Rabbit Meal kibble for his snacks
Administer the prednisone as prescribed
Continue to supplement his diet with the 250mg - 2x/day Lysine.
Continue to supplement his diet 2x/week with the recommended squirt of Alaskan salmon oil

I have also ordered the Lactoferrin that @LDG recommended and hope to have that later this week. I also ordered a bottle of the Rescue Remedy in hopes that if it is some form of stress this may help, and I ordered the 2Docs Allergy Defense pills. All of which I expect will arrive later this week.

I will discuss them all with our vet first, although she had not heard of the Lactoferrin at all

I feel there are a number of folks here who have gone through years of trial/error with their allergy kitties who's experiences I hope to draw from.

I'm sure like everyone - you just want them well - and feel so dang helpless that you can't just magically make it all go away.

But that's where little Monty's issues are currently at.

bluebird gal · Feb 2, 2014

Another update, bumping this up for any more ideas or thoughts on what still might be going on.

5 straight days/dosages of 5mg prednisone - This greatly lessened both the little scabby type bumps that were appearing in his ear/neck/bib region. And of course, that lessened the scratching and over grooming quite a bit too. I think the grooming going on now is more in line with normal after meals cleanup and only minimum grooming of the areas that he was literally licking & pulling the fur our.
3wks of being fed nothing but Instinct rabbit wet & Instinct rabbit meal kibble. He has snagged a bite or two of Si's wet or dry fancy feast, but nothing happened, meaning there were no adverse results or incidents of breaking out in any little more scabs, etc. Of course, that makes me wonder if it is a food allergy at all, however I realize a response may be supressed by the prednisone. But considering the pattern of the itchies, it's classic it seems for food allergy.
Supplement: 500mg Lysine 2x per day for the last 7 days. Not sure at this point if it is the grain free that made the sneezes almost disappear, or if it was this much Lysine added to his diet.
Supplement: 1/2 pump alaskan salmon oil
Supplement: Started 1/2 capsule of Lactoferrin with this morning's wet feeding
Supplement: I used 2drops of Rescue Remedy for pets that I put on my fingers & rubbed into his ears. I'm only trying this on the off chance that it will help calm the thoughts of the over grooming the areas he's licked fur away from. I understand from the vet (and others here) that it can become a "habit" while going through and/or dealing with whatever skin issue he has going on.

Yesterday Monty probably sneezed 3-4x which is a far cry from his daily sneezing 8-10x. It is all clear. Last week we had a faint yellowish sneeze 2x. We have 5 more 5mg pills to go starting every other day as we taper off of this stuff. I presume at that point it will be an add back the old foods to see what happens? I realize it may be necessary, but man I hate feeling like I'm 'experimenting' with is health and well being.

Wednesday we see a specialist who visits this area once a week to see if she has any ideas. And by Friday if I'm not convinced in the specialist, etc. I will be making an appointment with another vet in the area for a second opinion on everything we've done or been through.

stephanietx · Feb 3, 2014

Does he have any open wounds, raw spots, or hot spots? We recently had a member post whose cat has been in a cone for 4 years and another poster said her cat had the same thing. Turned out to be mange.

bluebird gal · Feb 4, 2014

Not a one. He's so laid back I have gone over every square inch of him with a flea comb, combing his hair backwards looking for anything. The only thing he's ever had was a sudden onset of little tiny scabs that easily scrape off with your fingernail. When you scrape them off it doesn't leave a mark, red spot, bleed or anything like that. He has just really thinned his fur licking it on his lower belly and his bib & front shoulders. The pattern is why the vet originally thought food allergy.

bluebird gal · Feb 5, 2014

Back home from the specialist visit with our Million Dollar Baby

Having reviewed all of Monty's records, combined with my tracking of the grain & gluten free food, Lysine supplements and the last 4 days a 1/2 a capsule of the Lactoferrin ...

He believes we are talking strictly dealing with an airborne or contact allergy. He said personally, as an exotic vet primarily, he has rarely seen food allergies in cats; however his main interaction with cats are hybrids such as Bengals, Savannahs, Bobcats, etc.

He did recommend, trying the Feliway spray on the off chance that his grooming is somehow stress related, even though he didn't believe from our home life description, nor Monty's falling asleep while he was rubbing his belly on the exam table, that he seems stressed in any way. And if we see a marked improvement in his grooming habits with the spray, then consider the diffusers.

Monty's sneezing has all but disappeared - having only 1-3 sneezes every other day or so, all clear. His heart & lungs sound clear & strong. The specialist does not believe we are dealing with any form of infection, FHV or anything of the sort. The steroid has been 100% effective in ridding him of the little scabby areas that were popping up on his bib, chest and forearm areas. No indication under black lights of any sort of mange, mites, flea dirt or anything else. We have 3 more 5mg prednisone's to take every other day from the initial prescription, and we will move down to the 2.5mg tapering dose immediately after that to get this little guy off of those. And see what happens.

Both the regular vet we were seeing, and this visiting specialist, are anxious to see what happens when we leave this area and move back to the Dallas/Fort Worth area March 1st. Where we are, on the coast of Texas, is considered a tropical environment where "something" is blooming, seeding, etc. all of the time. We all wonder if whatever allergen triggered this will go away when the environment does.

In the meantime, I'm going to continue the grain/gluten free Instinct rabbit. For some reason, in the past 4 days, our big boy decided he liked rabbit LOL so the supply I just stocked up on should go quickly. He recommended to forego all supplements, except the salmon oil, at this time. So we will proceed accordingly and see what happens.

At least if things don't change I will have access in the Dallas/Fort Worth area to cat only veterinarians if we feel we need a 3rd opinion on what we're dealing with.

ondine · Feb 5, 2014

Thank you so much for pursuing this. Many people would have given up by now. I am hoping the Feliway works and that the move back to Dallas will help eliminate whatever it is that causing his allergies. Thanks for the update!

bluebird gal · Feb 5, 2014

Certainly happy to provide the update Ondine. We are still hopeful we will be able to pinpoint something, sooner or later.

Little Monty is just a dream kitten personality wise so he will certainly be seen to even if we need to take out insurance on him just in case.

We have felt fortunate that the vet we've been seeing, including the specialist today, do not charge an arm & a leg, nor immediately recommend a battery of potentially unnecessary & expensive testing, etc. They take it a step at a time. Even though I'm freaking out & letting my brain run circles around them. LOL

They were out of the Feliway spray for cats, but should have that back in stock tomorrow or Friday. He is just so laid back, even at the vet visits, which are generally one of the more stressful situations for a pet. Monty falls asleep at the vet.

And neither vet thought his extremely calm demeanor was any form of shutting-down 'they can't see me' stress. I'm looking forward to trying it, especially if it eases his thoughts of continuing to groom a little excessively.

ondine · Feb 5, 2014

I don't know if these have been mentioned or not, but it just occurred to me that you might also try Composure Treats. They are available on Amazon. We have an OCDC cat and they really, really work on him.

bluebird gal · Feb 5, 2014

Ondine said:
I don't know if these have been mentioned or not, but it just occurred to me that you might also try Composure Treats. They are available on Amazon. We have an OCDC cat and they really, really work on him.

bluebird gal · Feb 8, 2014

GAH!! We have about 4-5 more little scabby spots that popped up here & there on Monty. These are tiny mind you, very tiny little scabs. A couple back around his neck area where they first started, and this is the first time I've felt any on the inside of a hind leg. Poor little guy (not to mention our pocketbook) just can't seem to get a break.

I guess the great news is his sneezes have remained very low in comparison to where we started. He now only sneezes clear, at most, 2-4x/day which is way, way down from the 15-20x/day when we started having these issues overall.

Oddly enough, no matter what the "specialist" stated I'm now more convinced than ever it is something food related. Reason being - as much as I don't like the idea of experimenting - ultimately you have to add back in things that may be the trigger to hopefully ID it so we can all get past this.

I specifically asked the specialist, since he stated he had no reason to believe it was a food allergy, if I should rotate back in the food we had been feeding. His answer was yes, and now we're back to the little scabs even though not remotely near the number he had before. So over the past 3 days he has had one of his two wet meals a day of the Friskies Chicken shreds. I continue feeding the Instinct rabbit kibble because they both seem to love it. No supplements other than the salmon oil. He did thieve some of Si's FF chicken & turkey kibble but only about 5-6 pieces. So I have to believe something in one of those - chicken or whatever else is in that stuff - may be the trigger.

Little guy is still licking himself silly, but he never really quit doing that, even when the original scabs went away. The rescue remedy, at least in our case, has not seemed to help lessen the stress I'm sure he must feel over constantly being itchy. Hopefully Monday the vet will have the Feliway spray back in stock so we can start trying that.

My hats are off, and my heart certainly goes out, to all of you dealing with kitties with any sort of allergy. This has only been going on 3wks for us now and I'm ready to pull my own hair out.

jdollprincess · Feb 9, 2014

Another antihistamine you can try is zyrtec or the generic. Cats generally get a 1/4 to 1/2 of a 10mg pill 1-2 times daily and it's considered more effective then Benadryl and Chlorampheniramine and you can give it daily or as needed.

happybird · Feb 9, 2014

I wonder if perhaps the allergy is to carrageenan or other common food additive, and not the grains or type of protein? Just a thought. I hope you can figure it out for the poor little itchy, tiny-scabby and and less-sneezy guy! :vibes:

Brainstorming Before Vet Visit Tomorrow

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