Renal Insufficiency and Proteins

matcala

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
8
Purraise
1
Hello all, This is my first post here.

I have a cat with renal insufficiency. That was diagnosed 8 months ago. Since then he has been taken half a pill of Fortekor everyday, and renal food, basically Royal Canin and K/D hills.

Right now he seems to be more or less OK. He has lost some weight but he is now eating again. However, there have been times in the past months when he has not eaten much at all.

I would like to discuss here about the quantity of proteins contained in the renal prescription foods.

Royal Canin dry food has 23% protein, and 0.3% phosphorus.

K/D Hills dry food has 27% protein, and 0.46% phosphorus.

So, I guess the Royal Canin dry food would be better since it contains a lower quantity of protein and phosphorus and high levels of those are not good for for cats with renal insufficiency.

Renal wet foods, canned or in pouches also contain a similar quantity of protein, always below 30%.

However, I have noticed that there are some non-prescription foods for cats that contain much less protein percentage. If we take a look at the "Gourmet" 85g cans for example, they have only 8.5% protein (the pouches have 13%). It doesn't say how much phosphorus they contain but based on the quantity of protein alone, wouldn't it be OK to give this to my cat with renal insufficiency? My cat actually loves "Gourmet" and in times of crisis in the past when he didn't want to eat anything at all, I gave him some "Gourmet" canned food.

What do you guys think?

Thanks for your time!!!
 

stephanietx

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
14,768
Purraise
3,489
Location
Texas
I really wish I could be of more help, but unfortunately, I can't.  I never worried much when my girl was going through chronic renal failure.  I fed her whatever she would eat because I was more concerned with her eating than the breakdown.  This site might help you out until others come along and chime in.  http://www.felinecrf.com/
 

cprcheetah

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
1,887
Purraise
149
Location
Bountiful, UTah
IMO until they are in stage 3 or 4 renal failure kidney cats should NOT be on a prescription kidney diet, they are way to low in protein.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9582959?dopt=Abstract talks about the effects of Protein on kidney cats.  Whats more important is the phosphorus levels in the diet.  http://www.felinecrf.org/which_foods.htm  My dad had a cat in stage 3 kidney failure that lived 3 years after diagnosis.  He wouldn't eat the kidney diets, so he was fed Fancy Feast and Friskies, but get 6 or 7 times a day in small meals.  He did just fine.  He occassionally got subq fluids but that was it for his treatment.  Here is another excellent resource:   Diet and Kidney Failure in Cats   Here a veterinary endocrinologist talks about Kidney Failure in cats who have been treated for Hyperthyroidism, but has excellent information about Kidney Failure itself.  http://www.animalendocrine.com/wp-c...-Hyperthyroidism-Concurrent-Renal-Disease.pdf
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4

matcala

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
8
Purraise
1
Thank you very much for your replies and links,

My cat is in a moderate advanced stage. Believe me I have read a lot about renal insufficiency in cats during the last months.

My cat does not like the prescription renal foot very much. However, he has no problems at all eating normal cat food. That is why the days he doesn't want to eat the prescription food, I give him "Gourmet" http://www.gourmet-cat.co.uk/

I guess, a little can of "Gourmet" which has even less protein levels that his prescription renal food, won't hurt my cat much, right?

Well, if your Dad's cat was given Friskies, I guess "Gourmet" will be ok.


Best,
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

matcala

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
8
Purraise
1
Thank you very much for your replies and links,

My cat is in a moderate advanced stage. Believe me I have read a lot about renal insufficiency in cats during the last months.

My cat does not like the prescription renal foot very much. However, he has no problems at all eating normal cat food. That is why the days he doesn't want to eat the prescription food, I give him "Gourmet" ( gourmet-cat-co.uk )

I guess, a little can of "Gourmet" which has even less protein levels that his prescription renal food, won't hurt my cat much, right?

Well, if your Dad's cat was given Friskies, I guess "Gourmet" will be ok. :)

Best,
 

mrsgreenjeens

Every Life Should Have Nine Cats
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
16,390
Purraise
7,126
Location
Arizona
Just need to point out that reading protein on dry food vs canned food is apples to oranges because of the moisture in canned food.  For instance, I just looked up Gourmet that you gave the link for.  On the particular can I looked up, it said the protein was 11%, but when I did the calculation to remove the moisture, the protein became 47.83% protein.  Dry Matter Basis is where you should really be looking at protein, carbs, and even the phosphorus level.  (If I were to remove what little moisture is stated on the bag of kidney diet kibble, the protein % would also increase) Next week TCS will be releasing a new article on this very topic, so stay tuned for that.

All that being said, for kidney cats, it's really much better to feed them canned food, because they need has much water as humanly possible to get into them.  I have a kidney cat, and have had two others in the past
.  With my current girl, I now feed her canned food, and I add extra water to her food.  We haven't gotten to the point where we need to give her extra fluids under her skin (sub-q fluids), but that time may come, as it did with one of her brothers. 

Kidney food is usually very unappealing to cats, mainly because it is so low in protein, and cats need and desire protein.  Actually, the latest thinking out there is that the lack of protein for kidney cats is why so many of them are skin and bones.  Even my own Vet attended a seminar recently and admitted to me that she is finally starting to come around to my point of view (I advocate feeding raw even for kidney cats) after their latest discussion about protein and kidney cats.  The main issue, though, is that darned phosphorus.  You really do need to try to find foods that are low in phosphorus, although you can use phosphorus binders.  The most important thing, though, is for these cats to eat, and because they don't necessarily feel all that well, it's a real challenge. 

Here is a chart that tells the amount of protein, fat, carbs and phosphorus in canned foods, in alphabetical order.  What I look for, in this order, is low phosphorus (try to keep it under 1%), HIGH protein, LOW carbs, and Medium to High fat.  Not an easy food to find.  And you need to use the Dry Matter % columns, not the other ones.  BTW, the Gourmet brand that you discussed is known as Fancy Feast on this chart.  Unfortunately, it's pretty high in phos.  Some of them are REALLY high.  Here's the chart:  http://www.thecatsitehttp://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Here is another website that I, personally, refer to very frequently for specific questions about kidney disease, like where find something, which OTC drugs work best, etc.  It's not the same as the one referenced by StephanieTX above, although the address is very similar:  http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm      This one is actually run by a woman in the UK, so she makes lots of references for "if you are in the UK, this is your source", which is good as I think you are somewhere "over the pond"


OH!  Forgot to add, if your cat really only likes to eat foods that are a little too high in phosphorus, you can add egg whites (NOT THE YOLK) to his food and that will add great protein and very little phosphorus, thus actually reducing the overall amount of phosphorus intake.  I do this with my girl who likes the Fancy Feast.  I cook some egg whites from the carton, then add a can of Fancy Feast and some water and blend them all together.  Since egg whites have very little taste, she usually will eat this concoction.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7

matcala

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
8
Purraise
1
Thank you very much for your reply and links "mrsgreenjeens",

I would say my cat is in an advanced stage. However, and eventhough he has lost some weight over the course of time (from 6 kg to about 4 kg now), he is still active and plays. Never vomited. I picked him up from the streets 2 years ago so he used to eat whatever he found or people gave him. So I don't know exactly how hold is he. He is still young though, no more than 6 or 7 years old I think.

8 months ago, back in May 2013 he had the following blood test results:

- Creatinine level: 6.4 (Creatinine in healthy cat should be between 0.8 and 2.0)

- Urea level: 43 = 93 BUN (Urea in healthy cat should be between 15 and 30).

- Phosphorous level: 5.14 (normal level should be between 3.5 and 5.1)

3 weeks ago, December 2013, I did another blood test to my cat with the following results:

- Creatinine level: 5.6 (Creatinine in healthy cat should be between 0.8 and 2.0)

- Urea level: 43 = 93 BUN (Urea in healthy cat should be between 15 and 30).

- Phosphorous level: 5.1 (normal level should be between 3.5 and 5.1)

So, the creatinine level dropped a little after 8 months (still very high!), however the Urea is the same. Phosphorous is in the limit but still under control for the time being.

My cat does not like the prescription renal food very much. He has been mostly eating that for the last 8 months both dry and wet (+ half pill of Fortekor). However, he has no problems at all eating normal cat food. That is why the days he doesn't want to eat the prescription food, I give him "Gourmet".

Now I realize "Gourmet" is actually not very good for him. As you correctly pointed out, the protein level was misleading since each can has a Moisture of 81.5% that would be 18.5% dry matter. When you remove the moisture the actual protein ranges between 40-50% !!!! Not only that, now you tell me Gourmet has a lot of phosphorous!! So, I think I won't feed him with "Gourmet" anymore. I will look for other alternatives.

I realize my cat won't live much, however I don't want him to die from starvation either. So, as his health deteriorates over time I will try to give him whatever he likes more. For the time being he will stay on the renal prescription food though.

Again thank you very much for your time,

Oh, yes, I am in Europe. SPAIN!!!


Best,

P.S: By the way, my cat won't eat boiled White eggs, but I have given him boiled breast chicken a couple of times in the past and he liked it. I didn't give him too much because of the high level of protein it has though. Do you know the porcentaje of phosphorous of Brest chicken?
 

mrsgreenjeens

Every Life Should Have Nine Cats
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
16,390
Purraise
7,126
Location
Arizona
Strange that his creatinine isn't going down since he's been pretty good about eating the kidney food.  So, have you discussed with your Vet about adding phosphorus binders to his diet?  If he enjoys his Gourmet and will eat plenty of it, then I would suggest you ask for phosphorus binders and let him eat what he likes.

As to the eggwhites, mine doesn't like boiled eggwhites either.  That's why I cook them up, then blend the heck out of them into the Fancy Feast so she doesn't know they are there.  Using the eggwhites in the carton, I probably only cook about 1 Tablespoon per can of food, so it's not much.  I just pour a little into my Magic Bullet cup, then microwave it for maybe 30 seconds and it's all done.  then I put the canned food right on top, along with some water and blend it all together.  That way it's even warm for my little diva


3 oz of cooked chicken breast has 190 grams of phosphorus.  1 large egg has 95 grams, and the eggwhite has just 5 (that's why I said NOT to add the yolk
). 

There is no reason why your little guy can't live a few more years possibly. My old guy was 13 when diagnosed.  He lived 3 more years and never ate anything good for him.  He continued to eat mainly kibble, and NOT kidney kibble.  Half the time all he ate was Temptations treats, and for the first two years after diagnosis he wouldn't touch ANY canned foods.  And MANY times all he ate was freeze dried pure chicken breasts.  He loved them.  PURE PROTEIN
.  (sorry, I'll get off my soapbox
)
 

mrsgreenjeens

Every Life Should Have Nine Cats
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
16,390
Purraise
7,126
Location
Arizona
 Oops!  Mea Culpa on that info.
  I should have typed 190 MG!   The website I checked didn't specify HOW it was cooked, just said "cooked" and I looked at two different sites)
 
Top