At wit's end

Good vibes for those discussions with your vet.  Sassy does not sound well and I can't believe the whole issue is down to behaviour only.  This must be distressing for her as it is for you living with the consequences.   She is lucky to live with people who love her and want to find out what is going on.

Vet just called back.

Instructions are to stop the Probiotic and begin a course of Prednisone distributed over the next 8 days in case she now has some sort of Inflammation/Inflammatory - whatever.

The diarrhea really wasn't a factor until after the shot from the other vet.

My heart is hurting for her simply because this is clearly not comfortable.

billchamb said:

 
Vet just called back.

Instructions are to stop the Probiotic and begin a course of Prednisone distributed over the next 8 days in case she now has some sort of Inflammation/Inflammatory - whatever.

The diarrhea really wasn't a factor until after the shot from the other vet.

My heart is hurting for her simply because this is clearly not comfortable.

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Poor kitty. A crystal ball would sure be a good to thing to have right about now ...

It does sound though with the frequency that it is happening, that something must not be right physically. Have you changed the brand or type of food that Sassy is getting, a different flavor, are you feeding a fish variety often? Fish can trigger allergies in some cats with one of the results being diarrhea. Allergies can also be the result of certain ingredients in commercial pet food. It can be tricky to narrow it down in terms of the culprit. A limited diet is usually the protocol for ruling out food allergies and intolerances. Had your vet mentioned anything about the possibility of this being food-related?  You mentioned a change in litter at one point earlier in the thread. 'Sometimes' litter can cause diarrhea due to cats licking and then ingesting litter that winds up in their intestinal tract which can accumulate and expand and result in blockage. Its one extreme scenario perhaps, but possible.

I don't recall if anyone made the suggestion, but you might try getting some pureed pumpkin (not the pie filling) and adding this to Sassy's wet food which may help to absorb some of the liquid diarrhea, and firm things up. A teaspoon at each meal or as much as she will tolerate. Hopefully the prednisone will help to quiet things down and make a change for the better.

Thinking of you, this must be so hard as still no sign of finding a cause for her behaviours.  Fingers crossed the prednisone works for her and the diarrhoea improves as she seems to have made a fair bit of progress if it were not for the diarrhoea becoming worse.

I know the vet did full bloods and a scan but is it worth the bloods being re-done, or asking for stool tests for paracitic infections, or bacterial infections in her urine or some kind of bladder sensitivity?  That and ongoing observations of how she is getting on with Striker.

Sassy and Striker both eat Prescription Diet Z/D dry exclusively.  No wet food.  No change in food.

Striker is the root cause behind the Z/D; Sassy just loves it like a drug.  Both have tolerated it VERY well for several years running.

Litter change is back to Scoop Away which is what we were using way back in July went accidents started to happen.  I suppose its possible that they changed their formula.

Again, diarrhea seemed to start after Dec. trip to vet and shot given for possible inflammation related to them relieving full anal glands.  Don't know the medicine, but was supposed to be at a therapeutic level in her system for two weeks.  Diarrhea ever since, although last week, after adding Probiotic, saw some progress, but now back to diarrhea.

She just seems so unhappy, and I can understand why at this point.  At least twice a day we are scooping her up, holding her (she's NOT a fan of cuddling!), shooting medicine down her throat then releasing her.  The Amytrip, even with splitting the dose, has her very slowed down still.

God bless her, she TRIES to be friendly and social sometimes.

Oddly, we are nearly convinced that leaving the overhead light on has actually had a positive effect.

The noise overnight last night could not be helped as the winter storm was howling and the metal chimney cap buckles, rattles and echoes down the chimney.  Really not sure if that had any effect or not, with the early morning spot, but a possibility.

I'm not sure, beyond obvious parasites (which vet #2 declared not present after getting two handfuls of diarrhea on the table while examining her) what else they could check a stool sample for.

As frustrated, upset and angry as I used to get with this happening, I now pity the poor little girl.  Her quality of lifestyle is miserable and she clearly isn't enjoying all of this.  Who would?!

Just bizarre and sad.

Safe  , this sounds miserable for everyone.   Is there any time or place when she looks content just now? Is she showing interest in anything?

Well, it seems the "leaving the light on" theory is completely busted.

Twice, since yesterday, she has peed outside/on the box.  These last two instances occurred at the same front corner of the covered box, despite cleaning with Nature's Miracle.  The covered box DID still contain some side-wall pee/marking.  The open-air tub had a clump from Striker and another puddle of diarrhea from Sassy.

I know she's trying, but...what on Earth?!  How is this SO random?  How does it go so well, then just regress?

With the exception of one, maybe two, accidents, Sassy is AT LEAST keeping the diarrhea/stool in the box.

Wondering if we need a Vet #3...

It could be that the medication from the shot could have set off the diarrhea and its taking awhile to work its way out of her system. That said, the diarrhea could still be related to diet. Despite doing well for many years on the Z/D, Sassy may be developing an intolerance to it, OR, it is quite possible that Hill's has changed something in this food and the change is causing Sassy to have this negative reaction. There have been reports of diarrhea in some pets while on the Z/D.

Here is a link to one report of diarrhea associated with Z/D : http://www.epinions.com/review/Hill...ine_z_d_Low_Allergen_Dry/content_539197214340

Here is another attributing sudden illness to change in Hill's Diet :
http://www.epinions.com/review/Hill...ine_z_d_Low_Allergen_Dry/content_408978034308

Dry food is not a species appropriate food for cats but more of a convenience for pet owners. Some cats can do very well for quite some time, but then suddenly (sometimes due to changes in batches or other other underlying issues) or over a period of time, they can develop problems with digestion and elimination. I checked and was VERY surprised to see that brewers rice is the first ingredient in the Hills Z/D. Brewers Rice are milled fragments of rice kernels and contain very little nutrition, and usually constitute fillers in pet food. To see this at the top of the list is concerning. At the very least, at least one meat protein should be the first ingredient which indicates that the pet food contains a good amount of this ingredient.

i have a male cat who has been dealing with constipation off and on for the past two years, and through different foods and approaches to fix this, I have come to the conclusion that dry food is partly to blame and have been slowly exchanging the dry food for wet. Along with supplementation of slippery elm, my cat is now getting back to normal in eliminating more regularly. Its been a long journey however, as I am sure you can appreciate.

Just some more food for though here. Given that Sassy is to start getting prednisone, your vet is likely thinking that she may be struggling with IBD (irritable bowel syndrome). If the case, a change in diet should be part of the plan.

Thanks for the above post and links.  VERY interesting.

Mrs. did some online research from those links and beyond.

This MIGHT be the wrong approach, but we have now purchased a small bag of Blue Sensitive Stomach and will begin introducing it.  The information she read seemed to address all of our current concerns.

It would be magnificent if this would:  1) have an effect on Sassy's circumstances; 2) manage to get both cats off medicine completely, if possible.

A bit anxious (in the negative sense) about introducing another variable into this system, but we feel like we have to keep trying any option that presents itself.

You're welcome. I hope the new food will be well tolerated, something both cats will like, and can help to bring about a positive change.

Very important when transitioning to any new food is to do so gradually. For example, you will want to combine a little bit of the Z/D with the new food for the first few days to a week, which helps to prevent stomach upset and issues with diarrhea and/or constipation. Best of luck.

Have your cats been declawed?

No, neither cat has been declawed.

Aside from spaying/neutering, they have not been otherwise physically altered from their original state.

Another overnight accident/setback.

Sometime early this morning, discovered that Sassy had urinated/marked outside the box on a wooden chest, enough that it ran across the floor.

There was also diarrhea in the open-air tub.

Today, we transition from (2) doses of Prednisone per day to (1) per day for the next (4) days.

We are mixing the Blue with the Z/D, per the Blue bag instructions (beginning with 1 part Blue to 3 parts Z/D) over the next two weeks with incremental increases.

She's so unhappy and so are we.  Just really don't know what to do any more to help her or us.

Hmmm. Well I've read that cats who've been declawed sometimes have pain stepping in litter...... Since reading your problems and the tactics you've used this far, the only other thing that comes to mind is perhaps there is a thyroid issue. I'm not sure if your vet(s) have already checked for that. If not, checking it couldn't hurt

billchamb said:

 
................

A bit anxious (in the negative sense) about introducing another variable into this system, but we feel like we have to keep trying any option that presents itself.

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You have been trying so much, and given consideration to so many aspects, I do think this food change is worth a go.  Things couldn't get a whole lot worse than  they've been but if it is a food issue this could offer a huge breakthrough for both cats.  I will have my fingers crossed and hoping you see more postive change as you transition over.      

Another bad overnight.

5:30a - discovered uncovered stool (presumably Sassy) and covered stool (presumably Striker) in the open-air tub.  However, there was urine on the floor in front of the tub.

The covered box had a clump from Striker.

Then, in the back corner of the room, under the covered window, a puddle of diarrhea.

I can't believe that over a month now, she is still having diarrhea - particularly after a week of Probiotic, 5 doses of Prednisone, a change in food...

I tried to scoop up a bit of the puddle into a container to take to the vet this morning and ask them to do whatever tests they can.  Beyond obvious parasites, is there something else that could be detected in a stool sample?

Although its highly stressful for Sassy, I think I may have to take her back to the vet to see if they can get any urine to test from her.  Back in Dec. at vet #1, they couldn't get any because she was empty.

We have been working this as a behavioral problem, but now I'm really wondering if it hasn't been some internal medical system.  Her bloodwork and body x-ray from Dec. didn't show anything, though.

Vet office said they can check for parasites and bacteria in the sample.

Random observation:  I have noticed between yesterday and today that, when Sassy is awake, she seems to be doing a lot of lip-licking, almost like an involuntary tic.  Her water and food consumption seems normal, given her output (regardless of in-box or out).

I guess we shall see what the vet can determine.

billchamb said:

 
Another bad overnight.

5:30a - discovered uncovered stool (presumably Sassy) and covered stool (presumably Striker) in the open-air tub.  However, there was urine on the floor in front of the tub.

The covered box had a clump from Striker.

Then, in the back corner of the room, under the covered window, a puddle of diarrhea.

I can't believe that over a month now, she is still having diarrhea - particularly after a week of Probiotic, 5 doses of Prednisone, a change in food...

I tried to scoop up a bit of the puddle into a container to take to the vet this morning and ask them to do whatever tests they can.  Beyond obvious parasites, is there something else that could be detected in a stool sample?

Although its highly stressful for Sassy, I think I may have to take her back to the vet to see if they can get any urine to test from her.  Back in Dec. at vet #1, they couldn't get any because she was empty.

We have been working this as a behavioral problem, but now I'm really wondering if it hasn't been some internal medical system.  Her bloodwork and body x-ray from Dec. didn't show anything, though.

Click to expand...

Some changes take time. With any change you make, you can encounter setbacks, unfortunately. It sounds like Sassy is still going in the litter box so this is good.

Typically stools are checked for parasites such as roundworms, hookworms, whip worms, tapeworms, etc., and intestinal parasites such as coccidia and giardia, all of which diarrhea can be one symptom. That said there are a few other typical symptoms associated with parasites : weight loss, poor coat condition, loss of appetite. It doesn't sound like Sassy is showing any of these other symptoms, so you may still be looking at a behavioral problem. Its important to rule everything out.

Sometimes things can get overlooked or left out when blood work is done. I would have the vet run another sample and look at everything again.

For the stool sample, a fresh sample would be preferable to one that has been sitting for a bit in the fridge. The vet could probably get a sample from Sassy. The same for the urine. You can either have the vets get the sample, or the clinic can give you something like NoSorb which is a sterile substrate for the cats to scratch and do their business in, but it doesn't absorb urine. You place this in a clean pan, separate Sassy and encourage her (only) to use this pan.

Good to hear that she is eating and drinking well. The lip-smacking could be a symptom of the prednisone she is on. I would discuss this with the vet to ensure that the amount she is getting is appropriate.

Best of luck at the vets!

Stool sample = Negative for parasites and unhealthy bacteria.

Vet suggests returning to Probiotic, continuing with Prednisone and has now added a 5-day regimen of a wormer called Panacur, just in case there is something illicit in her system that isn't being detected.

She is SO unhappy, and it makes me so sad.  She was not a "snuggly" cat, but she had been at least more sociable prior to the Amytrip.  I may ask the vet about reducing the dose, even though she only gets 1/4 tablet 2x/day.  She's just mopey, she doesn't really vocalize anymore, unless its to complain about getting picked up for medicine doses (note: she has NEVER been very receptive of handling for ANY reason; this isn't new).

I returned from work this afternoon to discover she had marked on the concrete block basement wall (another first).

She had spent the majority of the day basking in the sunshine streaming through the front windows.

A little while ago, I noticed she had descended to the basement.  After she returned upstairs, I did a check and found another diarrhea puddle, this time in the covered box, with a VERY small amount of urine in the same box.  Both definitely her.

She seems to like the Blue food, although we are still 25% Blue:75% Z/D, in transition.

This so completely sucks the life right out of me.