At wit's end

oneandahalfcats · Feb 5, 2014

billchamb said:
It was truly awful.

They had taken her out, swaddled in a towel. When they brought her back, she was still swaddled in a towel, but the vet tech was now wearing thick, heavy gloves as if she were handling a falcon/hawk/bird of prey. Seemed a little overdone for a 6-pound cat that was frightened out of her mind.

The vet tech was my least favorite person of the visit, for a number of reasons.

Yes, I can just imagine. Poor sweetie. This kind of thing can be a really frightful experience for both pet and pet owner.

Its unfortunate but there are some (not all) rather militant vet techs out there who lack the ability to be discerning and compassionate in their approach when it comes to handling cats, or, they have been given strict orders by managers on how pets are to be restrained, regardless of any real or perceived threat level. The flip-side is clinic staff have to protect themselves as some cats can become VERY aggressive - even some small kitties can do a lot of damage in scratching and biting and so this is the reason for the heavy gear. Certainly doesn't seem to be the case with Sassy. There should always be some kind of positive exchange or reinforcement between the techs and vets and cats after this sort of procedure, if only to neutralize the negative impacts. In doing so, it can only help to improve the relationship between cats and veterinary personnel so that cats develop less of an aversion to being handled, poked and prodded.

I hope she is doing okay today following the experience.

pushylady · Feb 5, 2014

what an awful experience hearing her like that, even worse because you couldn't see what was going on.

As for the Metamucil, we used to add the psyllium powder to our cat Wiggie's wet food. Just small amounts every time. It's cheaper to buy in bulk, and obviously you only want the plain stuff with no added flavour.

burkey · Feb 5, 2014

I am new to this site, and just finished reading your thread. Your efforts are truly commendable. There are some people who would not go to the lengths you have gone, and you are setting a wonderful example for others who may be dealing with exceptionally difficult pet situations of their own. It is obvious you care greatly for your cats!

I have had cats most of my life, with the exception of the last decade or so, and just recently adopted two teenagers after the long break. So my knowledge is a bit rusty. However, there are a few things that popped into my head as I was reading...

A) I think you mentioned a ways back that one of Sassy's favorite treats is Petramalt. That is a hairball remedy, and thus has an intended laxative effect...even more so when given in excess. So unless you're also dealing with a hairball issue, I'd completely cut out the Petramalt and any other things directed at hairball issues. There's a chance they're exacerbating whatever underlying problem is going on.

B) Feliway, or comfort zone, diffusers... I highly recommend. Even if the core issue is not behavioral in nature, the situation as a whole is undoubtedly stressful regardless of the cause. I would put one in the area of the litter boxes (at least several feet away, if possible), and perhaps another one in of the spots where she spends most of her time. They definitely should not have a negative impact on the situation, and have major potential to help bring down the feline stress levels.

C) I did a lot of reading about cat food, prior to recently adopting my two. I'll be more blunt than some of the other comments... Blue Buffalo kibble reviews were generally NOT good. That's not to say some cats don't do fine on it, because they do. But any complaints I read (and there were a lot), were major complaints, and the overwhelming issue was causing diarrhea. I can't offer any alternative suggestions because I know your other cat has digestive issues of his own, but did want to point out the comments being made about the Blue dry food given Sassy's situation.

While I don't wish for any cat to be sick, I do hope that something comes to light when the test results are in. And hopefully something easily remedied. You, your family, and your cats have been through an awful lot. Wishing you the best.

billchamb · Feb 5, 2014

Burkey said:
I am new to this site, and just finished reading your thread. Your efforts are truly commendable. There are some people who would not go to the lengths you have gone, and you are setting a wonderful example for others who may be dealing with exceptionally difficult pet situations of their own. It is obvious you care greatly for your cats!

I have had cats most of my life, with the exception of the last decade or so, and just recently adopted two teenagers after the long break. So my knowledge is a bit rusty. However, there are a few things that popped into my head as I was reading...

A) I think you mentioned a ways back that one of Sassy's favorite treats is Petramalt. That is a hairball remedy, and thus has an intended laxative effect...even more so when given in excess. So unless you're also dealing with a hairball issue, I'd completely cut out the Petramalt and any other things directed at hairball issues. There's a chance they're exacerbating whatever underlying problem is going on.

B) Feliway, or comfort zone, diffusers... I highly recommend. Even if the core issue is not behavioral in nature, the situation as a whole is undoubtedly stressful regardless of the cause. I would put one in the area of the litter boxes (at least several feet away, if possible), and perhaps another one in of the spots where she spends most of her time. They definitely should not have a negative impact on the situation, and have major potential to help bring down the feline stress levels.

C) I did a lot of reading about cat food, prior to recently adopting my two. I'll be more blunt than some of the other comments... Blue Buffalo kibble reviews were generally NOT good. That's not to say some cats don't do fine on it, because they do. But any complaints I read (and there were a lot), were major complaints, and the overwhelming issue was causing diarrhea. I can't offer any alternative suggestions because I know your other cat has digestive issues of his own, but did want to point out the comments being made about the Blue dry food given Sassy's situation.

While I don't wish for any cat to be sick, I do hope that something comes to light when the test results are in. And hopefully something easily remedied. You, your family, and your cats have been through an awful lot. Wishing you the best.

Thank you for adding your voice to the ongoing (read: lengthy) dialogue.

Petromalt, while a favorite, has not been given since about the time I mentioned it. I tried one other time and she just turned her nose up at it. But, I appreciate learning that.

Feliway - none of the vets have suggested this (not that they get the only/last say), but we haven't made the attempt yet.

Blue - I'm not sure we will keep with this. Vet #3 said to go ahead and finish trying to transition to Blue and see what happens after we are at 100%.

jacktoby · Feb 5, 2014

I totally understand your frustration. Nothing worse than getting up in the night and stepping in stuff that should only be stepped on outside. Anyway, whenver Jack gets upset with me or he wants more attention then I can expect his presents. And not always by the litter box. Sometimes he just doesnt' make it to the box. I hope you find your solution.

mservant · Feb 5, 2014

@billchamb, I am very sorry to hear how harrowing the visit to the new vet was. Terrible for Sassy and terrible for you being able to hear and not see what was happening or to intervene. After that kind of experience it had better turn up something useful. Roll on Friday.

billchamb · Feb 5, 2014

Results - Bloodwork checks out good; no issues. Urinalysis checks out good; no issues. Urine culture - still pending; expecting normal result.

No indication of diarrhea trigger. Vet #3 will call back in a couple of days with final results and to see IF Metamucil/Fiber is helping.

Vet #3 not entirely convinced that Feliway would have a profound effect, but suggested it might help if we are willing to invest in them.

No other suggestions, except to keep up the Amitriptylin.

Bleh.

mservant · Feb 5, 2014

See if you know anyone with a Feliway spray you could test her with - I'm about to lend my spray to a friend so they can do that. At least then you get an idea of whether she responds to it or not before you fork out all that cash!

oneandahalfcats · Feb 5, 2014

billchamb said:
Results - Bloodwork checks out good; no issues. Urinalysis checks out good; no issues. Urine culture - still pending; expecting normal result.

No indication of diarrhea trigger. Vet #3 will call back in a couple of days with final results and to see IF Metamucil/Fiber is helping.

Vet #3 not entirely convinced that Feliway would have a profound effect, but suggested it might help if we are willing to invest in them.

No other suggestions, except to keep up the Amitriptylin.

Bleh.

Well, no magic bullet here but at least you know that there is for the most part, no medical issue which is good.

If she had a UTI you would think she would go consistently outside the box, but in fact she has been going more consistently in the box than not. It just seems to be the diarrhea now.

What have the last 24 hours been like?

Re. Feliway, I have tried this in the past and found that it didn't make much of a difference with my cats who were experiencing some aggression issues. This is not to say that it doesn't work, just that it may not work for all cats.

baileytc · Feb 5, 2014

Sorry to hear that the bloodwork and urinalysis didn't point to a cause. If the diarrhea doesn't improve with a fiber supplement, I suggest asking the vet about a diarrhea panel like this one from IDEXX Labs: http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresource...tes/realpcr-canine-feline-diarrhea-panels.pdf.

This type of panel turned up the cause of severe, chronic diarrhea in one of my foster cats after treatment with metronidazole (Flagyl), Marquis, and panacur and several different food trials all failed. Tia showed no obvious signs of infection (temp was normal, etc.) other than the chronic diarrhea. The panel found clostridium, the lab cultured it to determine the most effective antibiotic, and voila, a few weeks later she was diarrhea-free and putting on weight.

Most of the major labs (Antech, etc.) offer a similar panel, and your vet should be able to identify the fastest, most cost-effective version.

billchamb · Feb 5, 2014

baileytc said:
Sorry to hear that the bloodwork and urinalysis didn't point to a cause. If the diarrhea doesn't improve with a fiber supplement, I suggest asking the vet about a diarrhea panel like this one from IDEXX Labs: http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresource...tes/realpcr-canine-feline-diarrhea-panels.pdf.

This type of panel turned up the cause of severe, chronic diarrhea in one of my foster cats after treatment with metronidazole (Flagyl), Marquis, and panacur and several different food trials all failed. Tia showed no obvious signs of infection (temp was normal, etc.) other than the chronic diarrhea. The panel found clostridium, the lab cultured it to determine the most effective antibiotic, and voila, a few weeks later she was diarrhea-free and putting on weight.

Most of the major labs (Antech, etc.) offer a similar panel, and your vet should be able to identify the fastest, most cost-effective version.

We were offered, but declined the other GI panel (see post above related to costs). It was all just too overwhelming yesterday.

We love her and feel terribly for her, but right now we are also minding expenditures and trying to make reasonable decisions.

Likely, we will have to get this done if things don't improve.

billchamb · Feb 5, 2014

oneandahalfcats said:
Well, no magic bullet here but at least you know that there is for the most part, no medical issue which is good.

If she had a UTI you would think she would go consistently outside the box, but in fact she has been going more consistently in the box than not. It just seems to be the diarrhea now.

What have the last 24 hours been like?

Re. Feliway, I have tried this in the past and found that it didn't make much of a difference with my cats who were experiencing some aggression issues. This is not to say that it doesn't work, just that it may not work for all cats.

Last 24 hrs. - no stool of any type since yesterday (Tuesday) morning. All urine has been in a box.

Not sure if she was traumatized or "scared straight" by the harrowing visit to the vet to cause her to behave (I'm half-serious)...

oneandahalfcats · Feb 5, 2014

billchamb said:
Last 24 hrs. - no stool of any type since yesterday (Tuesday) morning. All urine has been in a box.

Not sure if she was traumatized or "scared straight" by the harrowing visit to the vet to cause her to behave (I'm half-serious)...

This is actually quite WONDERFUL progress given the recent events. It seems to me that Sassy's urination in the last little while has mostly been happening in the box, with the exception of the recent setback. Now ALL in the box, and, no diarrhea in sight. That little lady deserves some big hugs!

And just maybe, the dry food is starting to have an impact in firming things up. Definitely a better, nicer scenario.

Prayers, positive vibes, fingers and toes crossed!

therese · Feb 5, 2014

"Scared Straight," LOL !

I am so glad you are getting somewhere.

RE: the cost of the Feliway Spray...... I am not sure if I am allowed to mention brand names or suggest products on the board ( mods, feel free to correct me on this or erase my post ) but I wanted to mention that you can get Feliway plug ins, diffusers and spray on Amazon about half the cost of most local retail pet stores, even the 'big box pet stores."

I also have had good luck with getting Feliway on the website of Drs Foster and Smith Pet Catalogue. I buy the products, then cut out the mfg. coupons ( usually $5 off ) and collect the coupons, send them back to Drs. Foster and Smith and they will start a little 'credit' account for me, with the mfg. coupons. Between my having about $25 or $30 on account with the mfg. coupons, and then I wait for a sale on them, which they have about every three months ( they e-mail me ) I stock up and its about half the cost.

But right off the bat, Amazon has this stuff much less than the stores, even if you ordered it and had it sent express mail .

Hope this helps....I didn't believe that anything like that could work to stop fights, stop marking, stress peeing, ect. but man, they made a believer of me. The cost initially deterred me, but like you, I was getting desperate, bit the bullet and bought some ....this stuff is AMAZING. I have a few diffusers in my small house, plus spray the spray stuff all over the 'pee rug,' and he hasn't peed there in days and more importantly, he hasn't 'moved ' anywhere ELSE to pee, either .......and they have completely stopped fighting.

Apparently this stuff is an analogue of the pheromones the the mother emits while nursing the kittens, and brings them ' brain chemistry' wise, back to kittenhood, giving them a primitive sense of well being. Its really fascinating. My vet says it works like magic on most cases, even the 'hard core,' ones.

billchamb · Feb 5, 2014

And tonight, for the first time in about SIX WEEKS, there was a more recognizable bunch of organic Sassy by-product.

Aaaannnddd...in over 40 hours - NOTHING outside of a box, on the floor.

Yes, I know...I just cursed us.

therese · Feb 5, 2014

Woo-Hoo ! keep up the good work !

Here's hoping the kitty-guardian angels keep an eye on things and continue to help out !

bigcatfan · Feb 5, 2014

That is great news to hear you're getting some positive results! Hope the problem is now solved. :clap:

Re: diarrhea and food. My 13 year old neutered Ocicat, Spots, went through several years of IBD and it didn't matter what type of sensitive stomach food I tried or medication, he still kept vomiting and having diarrhea. Finally, my vet prescribed Hill's prescription hypoallergenic formula. It's been the only thing that works. He's been on it for three years now.

Spots also gave me fits of "revenge" peeing. Unfortunately one of his spots was my mother's bed! It started when he came down with severe uri and was hospitalized for a week. That's when I discovered puppy pads. I had to place them all over the house and still follow him around with pad in hand just in case he decided to squat. When he got healthy, his toilet habits returned to normal. Still, it returned when I had a friend take care of the cats when I was out of town for two weeks and took me about a month to resettle him. The pads to the rescue again.

I was thinking that if the problem returns (fingers crossed it doesn't), and the fact that Sassy seemed to go in the middle if the room, then you might want to place some pads there.

overwhelmed2 · Feb 6, 2014

Having dealt with various cat health issues for several years when they were elderly I can completely empathize with how you are feeling and I am so relieved for you that things sound like they may be getting better - fingers crossed that they continue to improve

billchamb · Feb 6, 2014

And backwards we go!

Striker (the cat that is not the topic of the original post), vomited last night. A lot.

Even at 50/50 of Blue/ZD AND a daily dose of Prednisone - he got constipated. He tried so hard to go last night, he ended up throwing up.

The only theory I can come up with is his system is now so sensitive that ANYTHING that isn't ZD will constipate him.

When this happened previously, we switched back and vet #2 had us give small amounts of Miralax powder over his food. That helped then, so that is what we are doing again.

On the Sassy spectrum - a 2nd overnight with no floor mess to clean up. Kept it in the boxes.

oneandahalfcats · Feb 6, 2014

billchamb said:
And backwards we go!

Striker (the cat that is not the topic of the original post), vomited last night. A lot.

Even at 50/50 of Blue/ZD AND a daily dose of Prednisone - he got constipated. He tried so hard to go last night, he ended up throwing up.

The only theory I can come up with is his system is now so sensitive that ANYTHING that isn't ZD will constipate him.

When this happened previously, we switched back and vet #2 had us give small amounts of Miralax powder over his food. That helped then, so that is what we are doing again.

On the Sassy spectrum - a 2nd overnight with no floor mess to clean up. Kept it in the boxes.

Oh dear. That is unfortunate. Keep in mind that medications can be constipating including Prednisone which can cause constipation or diarrhea, so I would expect that the pred is contributing as well.

At least you have seen this before and know what to do here.

You are going to be an expert yet on your cats and their respective elimination before this is all done!

This will get sorted, so keep the faith.

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