Advice needed for a litter of kittens

I was asked to foster a queen with 4 kittens by a rescue (and yes, the mother will be spayed, as will the kittens before being put up for adoption). 

I was told the queen was very protective.

The kittens seem to be somewhere around 2-3 weeks old.  Two of them seem much larger than the other two, and they all seem a bit on the thin side, but especially the smaller ones.

I have them in their own room, and they've been here about 5 hours.  My understanding is the last time they nursed was about 6 hours ago.

I made up a box for them, put them in their own room (away from people and other kitties) and left them alone.  When I went in to check on everyone a while later the mother was hiding, away from the kittens.

I put the box with the kittens next to where she was hiding and left them again.  A few hours later, Mom is still hiding and not with the kittens, who I can hear crying every so often.  The Mom did let me pet her on the head but I didn't want to do more than that right now and freak her out even more.

In retrospect I wish I had put them in a crate, but didn't, so now have to work with the situation I have.

My problem is, what should I do, and when?

I did put a rice sock in the box for some warmth for them.

I'm concerned that because they've been moved so much she's become very stressed out and hope she would not decide to not care for them.

I could start bottle feeding, but part of me thinks Mom needs to feel secure and the best way to do that is leave them alone for a while.

That causes me concern about the kittens not eating. 

How long do you think it would be okay to leave them safely without interfering?

Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 Hi,  I am so sorry you did not get an answer sooner.  I am hoping the mom soon settled down and cared for the kittens.     I would not have wanted to let 2 week old kittens go much  longer than 6 hours without a feeding. 

IF by any chance she still has not fed them ,  you probably already have,   but if not   you do need to intervene now.   and if they seem weak , you might need to first rub some dextrose /  glucose  mixture or syrup   on their gums  to give them some energy.

 Remember you would also need to stimulate them to pee and poop. 

 and keeping them warm is still very important ( & they need to be warm before being fed).  so continue providing a heat source.  . 

  I would basically try to get the mom and kittens both into some cozy enclosed place where the mom can't go hide off on her own away from them and then may be scared to come out.     Is there a way you can put both the mom and the kittens in a  crate / cage,  or something like a big pop-up pet shelter,  with room for food,  litter box  etc.  and bed / nest    and cover most of it  ( the part with the nest)  to provide a dark, cave- like place? .  

This is what I do with momma and her kits, I crate them, so that even the feral moms have to overcome their fear enough to lay down for them to nurse.

I highly suggest doing so asap.

We do need to hear back from you though, as soon as you are able so that we know whether or not they have eaten anything or been bottle fed.

If they are at least 3 weeks old, they will be able to hold their body temperature, so long as it's warm where they are kept. Up until they reach a full 3 weeks however, they are still unable to keep warm without help. A heating pad on low and covered is great so it can be regulated.

NEVER, never attempt to feed a baby under 98 degrees, as their organs become dormant and non operating and they will not process the milk and get very sick and die.

Please post whether or not they have eaten yet okay?

Unless mom has come out of hiding and fed them by now, they will be headed downhill. I have a great feeling she is overcome with fear and stress and will likely not come out, even when she hears them cry. Her own survival comes first in her mind. It's not her fault though.

I will be watching for an update.

Thank you for your answers.

Well, after a few hours of much-needed sleep (me) I peeked in one more time before intervening and Mom is FINALLY in the box with them, and they're not crying, so I just left them alone.  Hopefully she'll feel more comfortable after a while and I can return the box to the more-hidden alcove I originally had it in. 

Stimulating?   Please don't say stimulating.  LOL   The rescue finally adopted out the last of a litter of 10 that some A-*#&! had left at a dumpster at Petsmart that I had to bottle feed and stimulate and nurse through pneumonia, herpes and calici (sp?) and I was able to pull 7 of them through.  I have 2 others now in another room that just started using the litterbox about 5 days ago.  At this point, I could stimulate and clean up poop of all consistencies in my sleep.  I had actually been silly enough to think I was going to get a break from doing bathroom duty.  Silly me.

So, the basics I know.  I wasn't sure though about weighing the risk of waiting against interfering and having her abandon or hurt the kittens, especially since I was told she had been protective but suddenly wasn't.

I tend to believe in the prime directive of not interfering and only will if I have to. 

I do, however, hope she'll chill out quickly because I am not all that happy with the state of these kittens and would like to supplement them a little with some formula.  Again, I'm usually very conservative about doing things like that, but I feel it might really be helpful in this case.  I'll see how tomorrow goes.

I don't know what I was thinking when I didn't crate them.  This was a last minute thing, a lot was going on when they were dropped off and I had a brain lapse for a moment.  It's something I usually do, but since I didn't, I didn't want to stress out Mom any more than she already was.  She's been moved so many times already.  If she chills out enough in a few days I'll post a picture.

If anyone is interested, here's a cute video of one of those 10 I mentioned ...


And 9 of the 10 when they first arrived (1 was added later) ...

In nature, the mom is not always with her kittens the whole time.  She may be away several hours at a time, or even more.

We had even a couple of forumites where the mom was away  her newly born more than 24 hours, but the kittens were found and survived - apparently not too much chilled out either.

Of course, this is one of the examples why surviving adult ferales are usually of tough wood - the less tough dont survive their childhood.  Having such friends, they dont even need any evil enemies to perish.

With these we do have home at our protection, wd dont want to risk, so lets be happy it seems they did made it this time too , and things will go hopefully better and better from now...

*vibes!*

Good luck!

So it sounds that you have some experience with moms and their kittens.

I am happy and relieved to hear that mom finally got in with them and they are quiet.

I DO however worry that the smallest 2 might have gone too long without nursing, and they tend to lose their will to thrive, which means even if they appear to be nursing, they are more snuggling than actually latching on, which in a short period of time will catch up to them.

My advice is to peek in, talk to mom in a very soft calming voice and sit down low so she doesn't get all stressed out again, and double check that they are all latched on well.

Let us know!

Sorry, all, had a brain lapse for a moment and forgot I had posted about these guys when they first came in with this post. 

Having more problems arising and posted about it separately. 

They did eventually start taking the bottle, I was able to tempt Mom with formula and everyone is flourishing now.

So now the emotional problems are arising.  LOL