Need feeding help, please! My FIV Gray has suspected cancer.

I have to be brief as my time is in a black hole somewhere.



1.  It's a shame that my knowledge and my resources aren't enough to save Gray.






He wasn't himself.  Took him to the vet - not his regular one - she wasn't in that day.  His third eyelid was not normal.  Even though he wouldn't allow a rectal thermometer she told me that the third eyelid indicated that he probably had a temp of around 103 degrees.  



His weight last September - his annual GA Groom - was 16 pounds - I took note, it once was 19 about a year ago.



She gave him a Convenia antibiotic shot and said to give it a couple of days to show it was working.



He acted a little better, but his appetite wasn't the same.



About 12 days after that visit his pupils became distorted.




I was able to get an appointment with his regular vet.


She took one look at him and told me there wasn't anything she could do other than refer us to a neurologist that the problem was neurological.  


However she did go get the resident that specializes in Ophthalmology.


He took one look at it and identified it as cancer.  



Since my financial resources are already drained you know the difficult choice I must make, I didn't ask for more tests because of the costs.



The vet sent me home with Prednoislone to help with his appetite and give us some time to try and accept what my next action must be so he won't suffer.



This is the hardest part of all because other than not eating a lot  to almost nothing, and losing a lot of weight (yes I know the ravages the liver does with no food) , he is almost normal in his actions and behavior.


He is sleeping a lot - which I would expect.  His vision doesn't seem affected, he purrs whenever I come into the room, or speak to him.  LIke I said, other than the other factors he's my Gray.



Well, there may be even a problem with him being around his family.  It seems that FIV can develop into FeLV - so that's another shoe that could drop - I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, IF I come to it.



Okay, I have 12 other house cats, and 6 outside (feral born, too) to care for, so I'll stop with my post.  I'm having problems sleeping trying to get some sort of perspective and wisdom, my brain won't turn off with no resolution.



Wisdom to know what to do and when to do it ... .


Guess I wasn't as brief as I wanted to be, sorry. 


g

Grey is precious, sometimes you have to let things out somewhere, and why not here on TCS.  

I am so sorry about the news you've been given. It sounds like your biggest hurdle at the moment is to keep him eating and avoiding additional liver problems. Fingers crossed for the Prednisolone.   Have you been trying to get him to eat with his usual food, or any supplements like Fortiflora and other tempting stuff to try and get him to eat more?  I hope you can get him to eat so that he can keep some strength and stay with you as long as possible.  

One of my girls had cancer in her eyes and brain but as she couldn't go to a vet until very sick and no symptoms showed until it was extremely advanced I didn't have to go through the stages that you are. She had got slightly more passive and was sleeping a bit more but that was all, and her pupils had been completely dilated for a long time but she appeared to have no problems.  In fact she was probably blind for a long time but it never stopped her doing anything including jumping between one bit of furniture and another. The most important thing for me, and I am sure for your too, was that she had absolutely no pain or anxiety.  Her illness progressed in a way she was in good spirit, doing her usual things but sleeping a little more, pain free right up until the cancer suddenly advanced in a way she couldn't do anything. She was completely calm the whole way through. My decision was made for me because it was as if she wasn't with me other than having her body there ( that's when I knew she was unwell and rushed her to the vet). Like you it was an unfamiliar and less experienced vet and I had 3 days to hold her before being told what was happening and then letting her go.  I hope that this calm is true for your Grey, and that if you can keep him eating he will have strength to stay with you a good while, until he too decides it is time to leave. 

Until then, make the most of every minute you have, every cuddle and stroke, conversations and moments of play.  And make time for yourself along side all those other cats of yours.       

If Grey has a'health shoe' right now it feels like a lead boot, but maybe it's just a toe cap and and the extra protection he gets from it will help him feel well and motivated to keep watching out for all those other cats.    The improvement since he had the antibiotic is encouraging and if he is more able to get about I am sure he will feel happier.  When you described him on the lower shelf and Gray Jnr at the top, and then I saw the photo I had to laugh as my girls suddenly had to swap spots when snowleopard suddenly got sick: her sister was very arthritic and bullied by Ms fitkitty but all of a sudden she got shoved off all her comfy floor level soft cushions!  Snowleopard could hardly move but boy could she still smack her sister and put her in her place. It was hard to believe as she could barely crawl along the floor at that point and peed wherever she was.  In another recent post about a sick cat I did describe it as if her spirit, her soul had gone, and that was how I knew and I felt no question about my decision.  I hope this will be similar for you when ever that time comes, but that the time does not come for some time yet. 

My cats didn't have any issues with liver or kidney at the time and I had a license from my vet to feed the old girls anything at all to keep their weight up (they were nearly 18 when I lost snowleopard).  I was bad and fed them tuna in spring water maybe once a week, and once snowleopard was very sick and I had her at home for 3 days it was tiny spoonfuls of pate from the vet alternated with tuna water and little slivers of tuna.  Her sister had a good time finishing off what was left!    Sardines in spring water are quite good too, and although fish they are lower on the food chain so not as bad as tuna.  Suitably stinky to try and tempt kitty and you can mash it up with some extra water if he finds it hard to cope with the bigger chunks.  If he only eats a bit you can keep the left overs in the fridge for a couple of days or freeze if you don't like them yourself rather than wasting endless cat food as well. I'd give him anything he likes, even that Fancy Feast everyone goes on about that cats love but their human carers don't!

Good luck with the litter observations, I've even known people set up little webcams and video on their computer to try and catch what's going on: no privacy or what!

January 8, 2014 Update

I've taken Gray to the vet at least two times in the last month thinking that it would be his last.

His will to live is huge - but his body is failing.  He is now at a few ounces over 9 pounds.  He was 17 pounds in September, 2013 when he was groomed.  He's still purring when I come around him, he's complaining about the same stuff, still participating in things when I'm around him - even playing with the rope that I use as his halter.

He is currently on Prednislone - a maintenance dose of 1/2 ml every 24 hours, and  with an antibiotic injection scheduled every 14 days.

His antibiotic - Convenia - was given on Sunday, December 29, 2013 - and about 8 days after Gray started with the diarrhea.  This is being done to support his immune system that is basically shut down - well, that's the way I understand it.  He likely has some low-grade infection because his eyes have white blood cells accumulating in his iris - almost covering the pupil.  His sight is basically blocked.  His eyes were examined and the specialist told me Gray is seeing but it's as though a clear substance - like vaseline - has been smeared over the lens. I was hoping that the antibiotic would help clear that up, but it hasn't.

Today I added 1/2 capsule of a probiotic - wish I'd started earlier.  When I talked to my vet last night she helped me with dosage.  I'm using one of the syringes from the Prednislone and tuna spring water to administer the probiotic powder from the capsule - she suggested 1/2 capsule to start with.  

Feeding Gray, or giving meds is always a trial by error method.  I feel so inadequate with my caring for him.

 

For example - I didn't need the syringe - he gladly drank the probiotic in the tuna spring water!

For example - the liquid prednislone - delivered via syringe ... I would bundle Gray up in a towel and force the syringe in his mouth.  I didn't need to wrap him - just put him on the counter, stoke him, talk to him, and then hold him just enough to shoot the meds into his mouth.  All that struggling and all the stress was totally unnecessary.

The injection of Convenia, as my vet told me, should not cause diarrhea because it doesn't pass through his gut, and there are so many other things that would cause the diarrhea that it's difficult to identify.  I had withheld his Prednislone because I suspected it - but she encouraged me to give it to him as it would hold back the progress of the cancer disease. 

Any cat will have an issue with food changes - this is another likely source of the diarrhea as I'm feeding him anything he will eat.  The treats don't provide the fiber he needs.  He will accept the Friskies brand with the Tuna, another with the Sardines - but that's about all the canned food he'll eat - the other is treats -- not regular kibble.  But then, he could change that menu in an hour.

So, today we'll be out in the sunshine for another "walk" in our sheltered backyard, and get a drink or two out of the pool - it's a salt water system which shouldn't add to any problems he's already experiencing.

Every day I think will be the Decision Day, it's a character building challenge that's for sure - but I must have peace about this decision and my vet feels sure that I will know when it's time to say goodbye.

g

I can't believe I missed this thread last month. I'm so sorry about Gray.    It is heartbreaking.  My thoughts are with you. 

What a blessing that Gray is not distressed and struggling with the medication and probiotics.  I usually feel if my cat is less distressed when I have to do something then I am less distressed.  I hope you are able to treasure the times he is playing and purring around you, and able to take those little walks in to the yard.  Thank you for letting us know how you are getting on.  

With his eyesight, cats do not have great eye sight anyway and if they loose sight gradually they are amazing at learning their environment and getting around just using smell and whiskers! Both my cats did that in their later years and with the first one of them it happened with I didn't even know until she was very sick and unable to walk.  

Other members seem to have found Friskies threads in gravy worked well with cats not eating well and very sick so if you haven't tried them and can get them where you are it might be worth a go? 

Thank you for your posts of support.

This is difficult to post, so I'll be brief.

I took him for his last visit on Friday, January 10, 2014.

We placed his body inside a sealed plastic container, wrapped inside a satin and flannel blanket, and

even though his body is now in my back yard under a BottleBrush bush, he is in my heart forever.

  I am so very sorry for your loss.

I remember seeing your thread earlier in the month, and meant to track back and post. Gray was SO beautiful and no doubt much loved. I am so sorry for your loss.

I am so sorry for your loss.    You did everything you could for Gray and he will be dearly missed. 

Oh noooooo! I'm SO sorry I missed this - I don't know how that happened. Oh hun.....

Please have no regrets. :grphug2: :heart2: I know that's impossible, but Gary was so very, very loved and knew it. I know he wants you to be OK. I'm sure he's with you, by your side trying to comfort you. :heart2:

Fly free, Gray.

LDG said:

Oh noooooo! I'm SO sorry I missed this - I don't know how that happened. Oh hun.....

Please have no regrets.

I know that's impossible, but Gary was so very, very loved and knew it. I know he wants you to be OK. I'm sure he's with you, by your side trying to comfort you.

Fly free, Gray.

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This was seemingly all-of-a sudden.  Although I had been noticing his pupils were always dilated - that was just before I took him in for his GA Groom in September, 2013.  I forgot to mention it to the Vet mostly because I didn't know I should be concerned, the area is rather dark sometimes.

He was playing like a kitten - I still see him chasing a pipe cleaner around as though he was feeling great.

I guess the red flag appeared after the GA Groom when the vet said he was now at 16 pounds.  His normal weight was about 19.  I had cut back on his food as best I could to help him lose some weight - but he was being fed with his mate and their two kittens in the same "zone", so he could have maintained his weight with the food that was available.

Then he started being by himself, and not insisting on my attention.  He was in the outside enclosure on the top shelf sleeping a lot.  That was probably in the month of October.  

One day I got a stool to climb up and drag him from the shelf to bring him inside where I could watch him better.

I have 12 other inside cats, and about 6 outside (feral-born) to care for, so I wasn't able to give him the attention he deserved.

I observed his third eye lid starting to be more obvious, so called the Vet office to get an appointment - my regular vet wasn't scheduled so they had to fit me in - that's another story. Oh, and his head was tilted to the left when he walked and he was slightly unbalanced by now.

They weighed him - he was now down to 15 pounds, he wouldn't let them take his temp and I didn't want him stressed more so they didn't try harder.  

The vet I saw said that the third eyelid shows with a temp of over 103  degrees, so he probably had a temp.  His breathing and heart were normal.  She thought his kidneys might be a problem - she pressed on them hard and he growled - btw - I will not go to her again she was so rough with Gray I could have throttled her --  Anyway, she gave him Convenia.  She did have a nurse call me the next day to check on him (he was just okay) - the vet had told me that the antibiotic should show signs of working by the third day.  His head did straighten when he walked and he appeared to be better - but he wasn't eating.

I took him back the 12th day of the antibiotic (it's a 14-day antibiotic as you know).  By now his eyes were strange - the pupils were definitely not normal.  My vet was alarmed when she saw his eyes and brought in the vet that is a specialist in Opthalmology, and quickly identified Gray with cancer.  He explained what was happening with his eyes.

It was at that time that I decided all I could do was make him comfortable as possible until I knew it was Time.  That was Saturday, December 7, 2013.  He was given another injection of antibiotic, and I was sent home with a prescription of Prednoislone to be renewed as needed.

I fashioned a rope halter for him so I could take him out in the yard on a leash - for the first time in almost 4 years - the only outside he knew was in the enclosure.  

The first days he was active and walking around, drinking out of the pool (salt water system), eating grass, and laying in the sun.  He never wanted me to hold him so cuddling wasn't on the agenda until later when he became so weak he couldn't resist any longer.

So, January 10, 2014 I knew it was time - I took pictures to remind myself that I didn't give up on him too soon - him laying on the rim of his water dish licking water, then laying in the litter pan exhausted.  

I made the appointment.  I guess I was surprised at the process -  I thought they would just give him an injection and that would be it - but the new rules are first a sedative in his leg (this hurt him, he cried), then a intravenous catheter is put into his foreleg after he is asleep.  

(  http://danerescue.net/deciding-when-how-humanely-euthanize-companion-animal  )

I held him, kissed his head as the vet injected the solution into the catheter.  He was gone immediately.

You guessed that I might be feeling guilty - I do - and you have encouraged me, thank you.  

Right now I regret not being enough for him even though I know I did the best I could with the resources I have.  It's that "woulda, shoulda, coulda" kind of regrets.

My first regret was not getting him neutered while he was young so he wouldn't have been in fights enough to get the Virus that caused the end of his life too soon.

At the very least I know he is no longer fearful, or suffering - especially since I'm a "Senior" now and have concerns for the rest of the cats should I no longer be able to care for them.

Gray was the cat that started my Odyssey of rescuing (TNR) cats.  Even as a lost kitty he was trusting of me, he quickly knew his name and when he heard me call about dinner he'd come running.  I didn't want to give him a "special" name because I didn't want to become attached - ha, what a joke on me!

He added his family - a female that would wait for him to come home, I would see her watching for him to return.  Two kittens later, and I had to learn trapping and all the rest of caring for feral-born cats.  

He taught his mate to trust me, and now I am able to groom her, and even pick her up even though very cautiously.  Gigi must have known Gray was sick because she stopped trying to snuggle with him, so I think she is okay and not grieving.  The "kittens" (now 5 years old) are still fearful of us even after being inside with us for these past 4+ years.  It's because I can't give them the attention required to get over the natural fear, I suppose.

So, after this long post I apologize for it's length - I don't regret having Gray in my life, he taught me a lot, I miss him every day.

Gray was the right name to give him, after all.

 

 

Please don't apologize for anything. :heart2: "Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda" is a fact of the passing of a pet, no matter what. It comes with loving. As you may know, I work with an animal communicator. And when Lazlo was diagnosed with cancer, she explained how animals view death. To them, life and death are not as black and white as it is for us, because animals instinctively know that life in this body is just a "cloak" they wear. They do not regret, nor do they fear "shedding" this "cloak." Cats naturally, instinctively, try to hide illness or weakness - it's a pre-programmed survival instinct. But on top of that, they want US to be OK. So it is often that passing comes rather quickly - though often they will do their best to stay with us as long as they can, because they sense OUR need. The sad, annoying, fact of the matter is that life ends. For us, with our kitties, it is ALWAYS too soon. But being with him, letting him enjoy what time he had left - and then ensuring he didn't suffer? There's nothing to regret in that at all. It's the ultimate gift, and the hardest one to give. :gprhug2: :grphug2: :grphug2: :grphug2: :grphug2: :grphug2: :heart2:

LDG said:

Please don't apologize for anything.

"Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda" is a fact of the passing of a pet, no matter what. It comes with loving. As you may know, I work with an animal communicator. And when Lazlo was diagnosed with cancer, she explained how animals view death. To them, life and death are not as black and white as it is for us, because animals instinctively know that life in this body is just a "cloak" they wear. They do not regret, nor do they fear "shedding" this "cloak."

Cats naturally, instinctively, try to hide illness or weakness - it's a pre-programmed survival instinct. But on top of that, they want US to be OK. So it is often that passing comes rather quickly - though often they will do their best to stay with us as long as they can, because they sense OUR need. The sad, annoying, fact of the matter is that life ends. For us, with our kitties, it is ALWAYS too soon. But being with him, letting him enjoy what time he had left - and then ensuring he didn't suffer? There's nothing to regret in that at all. It's the ultimate gift, and the hardest one to give. :gprhug2:

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You've spoken to my heart, Laurie, and your encouragement is appreciated beyond words.

I agree that Gray's "living" did not end, but made a transition. 

Thank you!

The TCS team would like you to know that we are so very sorry for your loss. Threads are locked after someone has suffered such a loss, as a sign of respect. We invite you to place a tribute at http://www.thecatsite.com/f/19/crossing-the-bridge as an enduring testimony to your friend.