Play aggression, at my wit's end

I would very much appreciate any suggestions from the forum.  I have a beautiful, sweet neutered 13 lb 9 month old male Siberian cat, my first pet so naturally I'm super-anxious about everything.  That is, he's sweet for 23 hours a day.  But, every night at 11pm on the dot, he goes after me with teeth and claws.  I know it's just play aggression, but it's honestly pretty frightening.  At that time I'm in bed, usually asleep, and he jumps onto the bed, pounces on me and bites my face or arm.  He usually manages to inhibit his bite but often he gets carried away and draws blood.

I have tried the following:

- playing with him for at least 1 hour (up to 3 hours) then feeding him a big meal right before bed.  That doesn't even slow him down.  Yes, I have lots of different kinds of toys and switch them up frequently.

- throwing a toy to redirect him as soon as he jumps up on the bed.  He ignores it and fixes his stare right on me (eyes fully dilated, ears up).

- Saying "no" loudly and pointing at him.

- Hissing at him.  He paid no attention.

- Scruffing him, pushing him down to the bed and saying "no".  No effect.

- Firing a compressed air can.  That terrified him so much I will NEVER do that again.  Water doesn't make sense - he probably wouldn't feel it and I'd end up with a wet bed.

- Lying absolutely still and completely ignoring him

- Giving him some food right at 11pm (he eats it then comes in to attack me).

Nothing works to prevent this.  It happens every night.  Note also, I'm in a small 1 bedroom apartment, so lack of space is almost certainly aggravating the problem.  Yes, I have 2 cat trees.  Yes, I plan to move but it will take time to arrange.  No, I can't just stay up until midnight when his banshee-time is over.  And yes, I am planning on getting a second kitten.  I'm apparently a glutton for punishment :-)  In the meantime I've had to shut him out of the bedroom at night, but neither of us are happy about that.  He likes to be petted during the day but he's not a cuddly lap cat, so my only snuggle time with him is at night.

Ouch, your cat is bored and making you pay for it. Cat bites are never fun, even when done in play. Here are a few suggestions I can think of:

1. Try giving him something to do besides playing with you. One thing that usually works for me is hiding treats or bits of their food around the house. He sounds like a smart kitty so make sure you change the hiding places around every couple days.

2. Interactive toys that dispence food/treats are a good boredom buster. A cat must roll a ball or toy around to get the food to fall out.

3. Puzzle toys are great for smart cats and many have additions you can buy if your cat figures out the basic puzzle.

4. Try keeping a TV on in another room during the night so he has something to watch/listen to.

Good luck with your cat!

Thanks!!  Yes he is a smart cat, and I agree about the boredom.  I already do hide treats around the house, and also have a treat-dispensing ball and a puppy Kong for wet food - unfortunately he refuses to eat kibble in any form, and will only go for freeze dried raw food in the treat ball.  I put canned food in the Kong.   He does like to play "kitty ice hockey" with the kibble though so it hasn't gone to waste.

TV at night is a great idea.  He likes those Youtube videos for cats.

I would love to take him for walks also, but that's just too complicated here in NYC.  I did take him to a park once in his carrier and he walked around a bit, but then spent most of the time sitting in his carrier and watching people walking their dogs. 

Hi,

Two Options:

1) banish him from the bedroom at night.  Yes he may meow, but if you ignore him long enough he should eventually stop, but that takes serious commitment.

2) Consider getting him a very playful cat friend.  That's easier than #1, and possibly more likely to help.

Hi, missed your thread until I read your post over on someone elses.  Your boy must be quite scary now at 13lb and still growing.  My boy's only about 9 1/2 lb and he's big enough when he throws himself at me. He also had a very good fur-mom who taught him not to use his claws.  Teeth were another matter as he had no siblings to show him how sore biting could be, and he has no concept of the difference between humans and cats so looks for a lot of physical play interaction.

Like your guy, Mouse is not a lap cat and only comes and snuggles in on me when I'm in bed so I was always very keen to resolve his youthful aggressive play when I was in bed.  I would hate not to have him around over night.  My guy is super sweet all the time but he is also super hyper for a good part of the day and has a tendency to get over excited.  He will pounce and bite at any time of day if his initial cute requests for attention are not responded to, and he can easily jump to my standing shoulder height or head if sitting on a chair.  That's what I get if I want to live with Mouse, and I do, I love him to bits. I do give advice from experience, and believe me when I say I used to worry about him biting my neck and eyes when he was younger.  I know it's scary and worrying.

I am relieved you have concluded that the rattles, and sprays and other shock tactics don't work as they can all result in a range of anxiety behaviours from your cat and can affect his trust in you.

The freeze, push in towards cat gently, and then remain still / ignore is really important as any movement is a play or aggression response to a cat and will elicit a play / aggression response.  Movement includes pointing fingers and hands / pillows over faces.  When you feel the need to protect yourself, if at all possible try to anticipate when he is about to launch and move the pillow or cover over you  slowly and in a smooth movement.  Anything jerky or fast will probably look like an in vitiation to play to him.

Do you use a different word or sound for when he is hurting you to any other unwanted behaviour?  It helps if you reserve one just for these occasions so he can learn when you are hurt, it is almost certain he does not want to hurt you and he needs to learn when that is happening and therefore when his actions are likely to end up with 'time out'.

If you go through this routine and if he continues after something like a third attempt (you decide the limit), or if he is really over excited and you are at risk, then you go for the 'time out' - on the other side of a door routine, but if you do this for short periods rather than all night or 15 to 30 minutes he is more likely to pick up and learn the lesson you want him to.  It needs to be closely associated with the behaviour or he will not understand.  Say putting him out of the room for 1 minute, letting him back in and if he starts again then repeat the 1 minute time out.  Do this several times over, possibly trying 2  minutes after the 5th time.  He should calm down and realize if he is calm he gets to stay in, if he bites and scratches he doesn't.  You also have the challenge of staying calm, calm breathing, and not shouting at him other than the one syllable sound when he's hurting you.

It can take several weeks, but you should hopefully see a reduction in behaviours pretty quickly.  I don't think it ever stops completely but there is a very good chance you will get it to an acceptable level and be able to predict when it's going to happen.  If he wants to be with you he will pick up that he gets attention when he's nice and quiet and he gets the cold shoulder and zero response if he's hyper and bitey.

Hope this helps, it sounds like you've been trying hard with him for quite a while.

MServant - your post was more helpful than words can express - thank you!!!  Yes, my boy is a gorgeous bundle of furry love but his size elicits many surprised reactions.  He's grown noticeably since that 13 lbs weigh-in.  A friend guessed he would grow to 15 pounds, but I'm thinking he will be closer to 20. Photo below.

The pushing in and freezing worked like magic.  I think my reaction to getting pounced on was actually making things worse!  After I did that, he stared at me for a few minutes, did another brief pounce, then just curled up right there next to me and went to sleep.  He will probably need the occasional time out on nights when he's particularly wild.   Good idea about a different screechy word when he does the play biting - "OW" is easy enough.  He knows very well what "NO" means though.

sophie1 said:

 
MServant - your post was more helpful than words can express - thank you!!!  Yes, my boy is a gorgeous bundle of furry love but his size elicits many surprised reactions.  He's grown noticeably since that 13 lbs weigh-in.  A friend guessed he would grow to 15 pounds, but I'm thinking he will be closer to 20. Photo below.

The pushing in and freezing worked like magic.  I think my reaction to getting pounced on was actually making things worse!  After I did that, he stared at me for a few minutes, did another brief pounce, then just curled up right there next to me and went to sleep.  He will probably need the occasional time out on nights when he's particularly wild.   Good idea about a different screechy word when he does the play biting - "OW" is easy enough.  He knows very well what "NO" means though.

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That's great things seem to be working for you already.  Intelligent kitten, clear human communication and speedy success:  keep up the good work!     

Your boy must make quite an impact when he throws himself in to kitten play at that size!      The other side of that of course is that cuddles with him must be totally awesome.      Your furry bundle of love looks like a super-furry lion, what a stunning boy.  I bet you didn't feel the cold with him snuggled up to you, that is unless he left no space in the bed and you ended up on the floor.  So happy it looks like he's going to be allowed to stay with you at night.

  Pretty much all cats have selective hearing, but I've never had one ignore me when they hear me go 'OW' once they learn what it means.   

Glad someone was able to help you! Just wanted to tell you, that your cat is absolutely gorgeous .

Thanks kittymom & mservant!  He is turning out to be quite a stunner especially with his winter coat.  A few people have suggested entering him in a show, but that sounds a bit daunting not to mention like a fairly expensive hobby.

He's getting a new little kitten-friend hopefuly next week - one of his "cousins", who is now about 3 months old.  Hopefully they'll be compatible and will help each other burn off energy - those recent posts about a second cat are quite timely for me since I'm worrying about the exact same things.

Something rather odd happened today.  He hasn't pounced or attacked my ankles in a long time (couple of months at least), except for that 11pm ritual.  Today I started brushing him with a brush I hadn't used in a long time - I'd taken him to my mother's house for the weekend, and that's all that was available.  It's a slicker brush with plastic caps at the ends, whereas what he gets at home is the Zoom Groom (he LOVES that) and a comb that he tolerates to a degree.  He made it clear he didn't like the brush, so I stopped, but then he turned around and pounced on my head and put his teeth on me.  I said NO and scruffed him.  Then he looked at me like he wanted to pounce again, I kept saying "NO", then he gave off the saddest meow I've ever heard him use, then he went for my ankle (again with teeth).  So at that point I just ignored him and walked away.  He was relaxed and even purring before this incident.  My mother thought he was "punishing" me for using that brush.  But note, he tolerates all manner of stuff like getting bathed, clipped, put in carrier etc and does nothing worse than grabbing his treat and running off somewhere to eat it in private.

I really and truly can't figure this one out!

That's hard for both of you, sounds like a pretty stressed end to a grooming session.

I hope he didn't bite hard enough to break your skin: If he did please keep a close eye on the area and if it starts to look inflamed or swollen you should see a doctor as cat bites can get nasty infections.

It may be that being away at your mother's for the weekend had raised your boy's stress levels as cats generally don't like to move around different places where they don't have their own smells and sense of security.  The different slicker brush may either have hurt him / tugged his fur more, or over stimulated his skin in a way his usual brush does not.  If that was put together with stress from not being in his usual 'safe' home territory which would result in his senses being raised and more sensitive than normal aggression would be an understandable reaction.  It is not likely that he was thinking of hurting you, or getting his own back for you hurting him, and more a basic reaction to protect himself at a point of high stress and pain.  

Have you been able to get close to him since this happened? Is he now OK with you and wanting to be around you?  Or are you anxious around him and worried he will do it again?  If he is looking calm and wanting to be around you to play or be petted I do not think it should happen again, and was most likely a sudden pain / stress response and he did not understand what was happening to him.  I would not go near him again any time soon showing him that slicker brush though as he may well make a quick exit to another room.

I hope things are now calm between you and you can regain the ground you had made over the past few days.   

He didn't break skin, it was more of a "warning" bite, and he "forgave" me within about 10 minutes.  I guess it could have been a bit of stress.  He's well used to my mother's house in fact, but there were some people there he didn't know (home health aides, for my dad), and when I got him home he went up onto his cat tree and had a monumental sleep.  Anyway there's been no repetition.  I was just wondering if there wasn't somehow more to his pouncing behavior than play - I think there's a touch of dominance in it.  Either way, he seems to pay attention to the ignore treatment so I'll keep doing that.

Is he still being calm at night? ]

Oliver would do the same to me. When I'd go to bed, he'd come up and start attacking me. I tried similar to you, as far as throwing toys, trying to redirect him, hissing, etc. It didn't help. So I started putting him out of my room. I didn't think to do it short-term, though, such as for a minute at a time. I would give him two or three warnings and when he attacked again, out he went and my door would be shut until morning. This happened for two or three nights in a row and I haven't had a problem since. When I go to bed, he comes with me, curls up and sleeps. 

The next step was he'd wake up at 6am every morning and want food. After a couple of days of sleeping later than that, he took the hint and now he gets up when I get up, unless he hears someone else (BF or kids) downstairs, then he runs down. 

Hi Sophie1,

We have a 16lb Siberian Boy, Charlie, 13 months old, whose behavior is so eerily similar to your boy! I just found your thread. I am wondering now what ultimately ended up working, if you had success. Did you get the 2nd cat? We're thinking about that as an option for Charlie whose biting has become so frequent we're at our wit's end too. I'd love to hear what happened.

I know this thread was posted last year, but I hope someone will respond. I am in the same situation with the person who started this thread. 

We have a 13 lb. male Siberian also (2 years old). He is a super big sweetie, but at the same time can attack our ankles, bite us or come back and attack you after you discipline or tell him no. I am pretty much in the same situation as the person who started this thread. No tactic seems to work. The occasional hissing sometimes does make him stop.

He pretty much only bites, scratches and latches on to us when he doesn't like something. For example, he really loves our bed, but we want him out of the bedroom for my husband's allergies, as well as wanting sleep. Sometimes he will sneak in there and we have to take him off. He know we are going to do it so he immediately lays down making it hard for us to pick him up. When we do he latches on to us with his teeth and continues to attack. Eventually we get him off of us and we walk away. So like I said the attacking only seems to happen when he doesn't like what we are doing. I just don't know how to discipline him anymore and I really afraid of him sometimes. In these situations, I realize that it is better to lure him out of the bed with a treat rather than engage with him in this fight. 

We are first time cat owners. We got him from a breeder. We love him to pieces and we have many snuggle times together. I scared of this behavior thought because we are wanting to start having kids. I want to try and nip it in the butt when he's younger as I'm afraid if we don't he will always be this way. It's really frustrating and confusing, as I don't know how he ended up this way. 

I often wonder if we are not feeding him enough. I hear Siberian males can get to be up to 20 lb. We give him two cans of food a day and dry food in between. We are now starting to give him 3 cans a day and notices he calms down more. Otherwise, he cries all day for food and starts attacking our ankles. I'm sure we can also give him more play time as I know Siberians are super active cats and need lots of attention.

Any suggestions would be great. Like I said he is super awesome when he is awesome, but super mean when he is mean. 

You have one very very bored kitty, you're going to have to interact with him 2 to 3 times a day morning and before bedtime for sure and maybe a bit in the afternoon if he wants, for a good 20 min, maybe a bit longer. Wand toys,little red light, balls, tunnels, etc. Does he have a large cat tree?etc, never use your hands, fingers or toes as play objects. You might also want to use a feeder ball if he's getting any dry kibble.