Greetings from Burmese City

Hi Everyone,

I'm a passionate cat-lover, the proud father of two Burmese who rule my life. Previously, I fed them Royal Canin, but as I researched and understood more about nutrition, I transitioned them onto Orijen. Now, after much reading, I am transitioning them onto fully raw, using Dr Becker's recipes. I believe nutrition is the key to optimal health, so I try to understand what my babies require, and learn how I can reduce their exposure to toxins and pesticides etc. Having just found them a holistic vet (we're now based in South Africa), I feel that I am establishing a good support system for their overall wellness.

I will probably be asking questions in this forum along the lines of:

• How to successfully transition to raw (since my one baby is a stubborn princess and refuses anything that is not kibble)
• Learning about people's experiences with FORL (tooth resporption) and stomatitis
• Getting an understanding of what kind of supplementation everyone is using to optimize their babies' health

A little bit about me and my family: I've grown up with Burmese all my life, and having lived in Europe (sad and catless) for a few years, we decided that it was time to expand the family.

Enter Tori.

Named after Tori Amos (not Spelling, thank god), she matured into a wonderful confident cat. Nothing phases her. Intelligent, demanding, she is her happiest when she is sleeping on your chest, or being groomed using the vacuum cleaner (yes, she goes absolutely mad and demanding when we are vacuuming the floors - deliberately setting herself in front of the vacuum cleaner in the hopes of getting a massage). She is a true 'little person' - complex, intelligent, attentive and very, very demanding.


Enter Hajk (pronounced Hike)

After a few months with Tori, we realized that she needed an animal companion, so we decided it was time to adopt a new member. We reached out to our breeder and asked if she knew of any breeders who had a cat that had been returned due to allergies, or perhaps a family moving. She gave us the contact of a breeder who had been using a cat to father litters, but she was apparently done with him. When we arrived at her house (after a 4 hour bus trip), the first thing I noticed was that Hajk was absolutely beautiful.

The second thing I noticed was his smell. He STANK! His coat was oily, he was thin to the point of emaciation and he had been kept in a little glass room without any contact. This is what he looked like when we brought him home.


With much love and attention, he is now a healthy, vibrant little man.

Personality wise - he is the kind of cat that you take to a hospice and share with the patients. I have never, repeat NEVER come across a cat who is more loving - he is the absolute gentlest, most loving animal, and perhaps due to his isolation at the breeder, he needs to be with you constantly. On my lap, cuddled in the crook of my arm, clinging onto my shoulder (his longest is a 3 hour shoulder-cling) - this little man is the rubber to my glue. This is the type of cat that comes running when you call him, even if he was sleeping. I joke that he has the memory of a gold-fish - 30 seconds and then everything is blank again. He'll greet you (every thirty minutes) as if you are the most important person in the world. It's a lovely experience.

He doesn't possess the confidence that Tori has. Where she loves the vacuum cleaner, Hajk thinks it's the devil in disguise. Loud noises, trips to the vet - Hajk is not a happy kitty. With his gentle temperament comes a sensitive soul, I guess

After lots of pampering, this is what he looks like now:


Where Tori's appeal is her intelligence and depth of character, Hajk only has one emotion. Love. Both cats bring a special dynamic to this family and they give back every. single. day. This is a picture of them, taken a few weeks ago.


I hope we can learn a lot from everyone on the forum, and it's really great to be here with you all.

 Welcome Burm Guy.  Tori and Hajk look stunning, and all snuggled up like that how could anyone not adore them.  Tori was quite the little heart breaker as a kitten!  Poor Hajk on the other hand;  I can not believe that any one, never mind a breeder, could allow a cat to get in to such a terrible condition as how you found Hajk.  You were meant to find him and give him a loving furfamily home.  My heart breaks to think that people can use cats for breeding as if they love the breed and yet treat them like that.  What a transformation you have witnessed. I am so happy for him, and for both of them getting on so well.

I am sure you will find a lot of the information you are looking for on this site.  There is a wealth of experience that the members have built up, and continue to bring in to share on the areas you have noted you are looking in to.  

For me, I joined the site to learn more about feline herpes which my Russian Blue boy was diagnosed with earlier this year.  He is almost 3, and in his first year was very sick due to stomatitis and tonsillitis which the vets recently concluded was probably related to the FHV.  Thankfully his oral inflammation and infections have been well controlled by prescription diets and teeth brushing twice daily but he needs constant monitoring.  I have introduced L Lysine to block the FHV, and hope to try probiotics as an addition if I can work out how to get him to regularly accept tiny bits of wet food.  There are many members supporting cats with stomatitis and FORL and many using the raw food forum and I expect you will feel at home there along with many other areas of the site.

I look forward to hearing more about you and your cats, and hope to see lots of photographs and stories in the Cat Lounge threads, we all enjoy a bit of light relief and endless viewing of cat photos.

OH! What a wonderful story, and what gorgeous cats! Where were you living before you moved to South Africa?
Do check out the raw feeding forum, lots of information, tips. Introduce yourself, and give us a 'heads up' what protein, supplements, you can easily get in South Africa. We don't want to tell you to order Alnutrin if you can't get it there from here
Briefly, a number of raw feeders supplement raw feeding with Salamon or Krill oil, sardine(s) and eggs. Probiotics are popular. And if hairballs are an issue, Egg Yolk Lechitin is helpful.
This link will take you to a number of articles you might find useful.
Here is an article about transitioning kibble addicts (yes, they do exist!)

There are a number of fairly recent threads about stomatitis in the Health Section.

Wow, your babies are stunning!  Currently I supplement a couple on my kitties with Lysine (for respiratory health), and I have a couple I use Cosequin for their joints, other than that, I don't supplement.  I too am trying to transition my kitties onto raw.

Wonderful cats, and such a wonderful story and write-up!  Thank you.  I'm so glad they both have such a loving home, especially after your boy's early life (grr to these terrible breeders/people who USE animals). 

We are owned here (Australia) by two Korats, and as I child, I grew up with 'burmese' - one who was the best cat ever, product of pedigree mum meeting a Tom down the road, the other from another awful breeder who sadly was never socialised, and had cat flu when we collected him - unfortunately these two aspects meant he never fully developed in mind/love/temperment,but he is still alive and kicking with my parents.

I love the Burmese temperment...I was going to go for Burmese...but then we chanced upon Korats.  And the breeder was fabulous (whereas the Burmese breeders we visited - yet again! - should have been closed down for animal cruelty.  You could smell the stench from outside the house).  So we went on an adventure with Korats!  We understand you perfectly when you talk about depth and complexity of personality, they are truely our 'fur-children'.  In fact, because of their incredible variety in vocalisations, we have even had a couple people ask 'Is that a child?' when they have heard our little one crying from inside the house, or when we've been on the phone!

We feed majority raw, and supplement with Lysine...little Ava brought cat flu into our house when she arrived, which our big boy Kato got very badly and still (6months on) has not completely recovered from.  We believe it does help, but at this stage, we have also needed another vet consult and some 'western' medicine to help him out.  If you would like to meet my family, there's stacks of pics and stories on my blog - address in my signature.

Again, welcome and thanks for your pics and story!

Second/third to the L-lysine:  I don't see any down side to using it, even in healthy cats.  I volunteer at a cat sanctuary, no kill, they have about 100+ cats.  They ALL get L-lysine once a day around noon, mixed in with their wet food (free fed dry).  They all start gathering at the doors right around lunch time, funny to see.

Welcome to you and your lovely Burms!   I loved reading about your cats... and your photos are just wonderful! 

 I love Burmese too.   In fact, I  just shared a picture of a chocolate Burm friend a couple of days ago on another thread .  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/268895/mystery-cat-chocolate-lilac-british-shorthair

It doesn't do justice to his eye color, though.

Recently I was happy to get to see at a TICA show ,  2 Suphalak aka Thong Daeng (Copper) kittens who had just come from Thailand.  (The Suphalak / Thong Daeng  are Thai words for the cats that we would call Burmese.  The cat who became fhe irst  original Burmese .   They were at the show to get judges to examine them and give approval for them to be used in Burmese breeding  to expand the gene pool.   They were imported by the same U.S. Burmese breeder who brought over Areerat Mod Daeng a few years ago.  These kittens are now in the UK. 

Thailand's native breeds are such a treasure and have contributed so much to the international cat fancy ....  as I'm sure  tammyp will agree ,  as a fancier of the Korat ( Si-Sawat / Dork Lao) cats.

And my own fave is the Wichienmaat / Maewkaew  aka Siamese .. (  And the original "foreign type" Siamese like those I now have are registered and shown as Thai in TICA  to distinguish them from the "modern" Siamese that developed in the West via selective breeding over the 2nd half of the 20th century.)   

 Hajk does look thin in that photo;  from that angle it's hard to tell just how thin.  Whole males are often on the thinner side;  but there would be no excuse for letting a cat get very emaciated.  ( Well , I mean except if someone has a cat diagnosed with some illness that  caused it , and being treated for it.)

Of course most studs do spray,  some will absolutely soak everything where they live - walls, floor, cat trees, beds etc.,  and their urine is extremely pungent ,  and it is not surprising some studs do take on the smell in their coat.   It's also not unusual for them to have oilier coats and something called "stud tail"  .  and it can take a while for the hormones responsible for the oiliness and the odor of the urine to die down after neutering,  though I would think he should have been not only neutered but bathed before he went to a new home. 

 It's obviously definitely not right if this sweet boy was constantly alone and ignored.   While they do have to  have a place they can be kept separate from queens to prevent breeding too often,  and usually from other studs ( to avoid fighting) ,  and if they spray they have to be in some kind of quarters that won't be ruined,     that doesn't mean you give them no attention.  That is part of the responsibility of keeping a stud .  you have to make time to spend time with him,  either in his living space,  or let him run in the house wearing stud pants & under supervision.... & sometimes they enjoy having a companion,  like an older spayed female .   but still need human attention too.   If they are clearly unhappy,   they need to be soon retired and neutered so they can just be a pet.  

 I am so glad that Hajk is now looking so pampered and pleased with life.

These breeds of cat are so people- oriented,  and some are notoriously needy.  With Hajk , it might be because of his previous isolation.  but he may have been the same anyway.    For example my Chatri  is Mr. Needy ,  and has never known anything but love and attention.   He is just a big baby.

Welcome to TCS! Your kitties are simply beautiful!

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the welcome messages.

MServant - I hope everything goes well for you baby. It's hard when they end up with a condition, but at the end of the day, it's about owner education and making healthy decisions. A cat that is fed a healthy diet and has high quality supplements will be far more able to defend against the negative effects of diseases like FHV. On stomatitis, have you ever looked at plant sterols. I've read about them for treatment of both stomatitis and FORL related conditions and my holistic vet swears by them. Might be something to check out for your baby.

Ritz - we lived in Holland for two years, and then Denmark for another two before moving back to SA. The cats even had their own european passport - I was the one who was forced to go through customs and visa applications etc. The cats just walked through the border with their EU passports. Too funny. Thanks for the links to the supplements and raw nutrition info. While South Africa is wonderful (amazing people, amazing weather), we do not have the depth or breadth of pet food options and pet supplement options. Right now, I can't even get forti flora or bonita flakes in South Africa, and yes, you guessed it - I have a little lady who is a kibble addict and will not touch anything else - no parm. cheese, no yogurt, no roasted / steamed chicken. Sardines? Meh! Only think she will eat - besides her chicken is tuna, which is a bit annoying considering how unhealthy it is for cats.

The cats do get krill oil and salmon oil, plus a bunch of other stuff. Should I just introduce myself in the raw feeding section and list what I'm doing so far? (and what I have in the supplementation cupboard)? I really would like to get deeper into the world of raw feeding (as well as working with kitties that are... shall we say.... quite demanding and fusy.

cprcheetah - how is your transition proceeding? My boy eats (mostly raw), but he will not touch it if he does not have a nice chunk of tinned cat food in it for flavour. The girl treats raw as a strange food that should be buried rather than eaten (she really does try to bury the plate). Do you give their joint management supplement because they have joint issues, or do you use it as a preventative supplement?

tammyp - yes, Burmese are an awesome breed. Grew up with them and I cannot go back to another cat I haven't chanced upon any friends owning Korats though, so maybe there might still be an opportunity to change my mind, he he What you said about your burmese breeder experience reminded me as well of my own. When I went to fetch the little man, the breeder's house also stank. You could smell it from outside even. I know that, living with a certain amount of cats, it will certainly be smellier, but for me, this was beyond normal house cleaning. And the poor cats with their sensitive noses - it must have been like a living toilet to them.

Ritz - another recommendation for lysine. I will definitely check it out because it's the one supplement that is not on my list for the kitties.

maewkaew - yeah, it was a bit of a conundrum when we arrived to pick Hajk up. I had fetched his sister from a different breeder, and the home was comfortable, smelled beautiful and you could see that there was a loving environment (she is such a confident cat, nothing phases her and I'm certain it was a product of her earlier healthy environment). The studs were kept away, but not in full isolation and I believe they even brought the dad out to meet the kittens, under supervision, of course. Personally, I think certain cats can manage a more isolated location, but for me, my little guy needs to be touching you all the time. It's wonderful and it's annoying, and I would never change it about him. Whining at the toilet door. Watching over me at the bath. Jumping on my back when I bend down to pick something up. The only moments when he is not with me is when he's headed to the litter box and the food bowl, ha ha. If I close the bedroom door - even if he's on the other side of the house, the howling will commence, ha ha.

I don't think the breeder treated him as a responsible parent should have. He wasn't 'socialised' in the sense that he didn't know how to play well - he bit HARD HARD HARD until we taught him otherwise. He also hated to be picked up - terrified him. Now, I have to literally carry him around the apartment and he'll stay in the crook of my arm for hours if I let him. Teaching him to jump up to my chest might have been a mistake, since now I have to watch for surprise springs when he wants to be carried.

MargeCat -- thanks for the compliment!

Love Holland, one of my favorite countries.

Yes, do introduce yourself to the Raw feeding forum, you can ask specific questions (or, general!) and get lots of good, specific information.