hublebuble4 - pregnant cat

Presumably you know it can be dangerous for humans to give birth, am rather surprised you couldn't extrapolate that to cats and all other mammals.  You seem to believe she NEEDS to have a litter (that's an urban myth), you have let it happen, I sincerely hope you get her spayed after this litter is born.

As to pedigree breeders thinking like that - we do understand the risks, we minimise them by only breeding from healthy cats, not breeding too often, knowing when they are due and rushing to the vets whatever the time of night or day if necessary.  A C-section in the middle of the night can be pretty pricey...

Both my cats have Insurance - a special pet, cat Insurance. Both have had anti-worm pills and both are chiped.

In the UK insurance doesn't cover breeding issues (C-sections for example) unless the female is on a more expensive breeder policy and has been on it for a stipulated period before the kittens are due.  Better read your policy carefully.

Peter, you're meeting this resistance as TCS is pro-spay and neuter.

In the Forum Rules: ( http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239112/forum-rules )

under Cat Care Policies, Guidelines and Stances

it says:

3. This is a pro-spay-and-neuter website. Please make sure to spay and neuter your cats. Unless you are a professional breeder and your cat is part of a professional breeding program, please educate yourself to the importance of spaying and neutering by the time your cat is 4-6 months old. If you take care of a feral colony, please make sure to do so responsibly by practicing TNR (Trap, Neuter, Release) protocols within the colony.

As is stated there, the exception is for professional, registered, ethical breeders.  Good breeders are highly knowledgeable and follow strict regulations and principles.

When you signed up you agreed to adhere to the rules.  So it is pointless to keep arguing about letting your cat have kittens.

However, now that EG is pregnant, we would really like to help you to make sure that all goes smoothly.  I'm sure you will be happy to take advice - there are lots of knowledgeable people here who want what is best for EG and her kittens.

It would be a good idea if we could now just keep this thread focused on the wellbeing of the cats, and we truly hope that Peter will have EG spayed once she has given birth.

And I must add. Some of the most Beautiful and it seams healty cats are moggies. I understand that the real pedigree breeders are working hard to make the breed right, but I have also heared that some Bombay and Burma cats are born with abnom defects. So the owners must put the to sleep. //Yeaterday I saw TV-program of an exibition of the best dog breeders dogs, Best in Show. And I must say: such strange breeds! I liked only a very few of them. Imean the look. I liked a beagle, a Tibet Sheepdog, a Frech Bulldog and some more. But the rest? What make them Beautiful or?

If I see a moggie from perhaps a farm somewhere. A healty cat with grey and White stripes, I see it and I feel lucky. And I like that cat. Most of the so called farm cats are strong, healty and have a strong self confidence. So moggies are also nice, and now Elsa Gloria has not the best health of some reasons that I know about, but her boyfriend Benjamin Franklin that is a mix of mother from a farm (genes I don't know) and father has some genes from Siamese and from Norwegian Forest Cat has good Health and is nice looking. Finally I want to mention that my opinion is: the breeders of cats pedigree are doing a tremendoes god job to develope and keep new claen breeds. And some af the breeds that are similar to my cats - the Bombay is a lovely cat breed and so is the Burmese. I now have some cat books with photos of different cat breeds, and I like so much to look at them again and again. But that doesn't mean that moggies are no good. For example eg and bf are two nice looking and healty cats too. 

Peter, you often refer to 'clean breeds' and I think it's a translation thing. 

Cats that are of a specific breed from a registered breeder are usually refered to as 'pure bred' or 'purebred'

hublebuble4 said:

Ok, I understand. But I don't agree that it is the greatest gift to let her be spayed and to him to let him be neutered. It's something that I must decide and do. But for me it's a hard one, a hard decision.

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It is absolutely not a difficult question for somebody who says they love their cats unless you want her to get cancer and him to get hurt or diseases. You'd better start to read up on all this.
Do you think we ALL neuter our cats for fun:doh3:!

You never stop to learn. Thank you. I want to live in the UK for some years, walk with my cats and play golf. But that's only a Dream. anyway, you never stop to learn. That is one of the joy of Life. And about the Insurance I must phone to the Insurance Company what cover what? That is important. By the way the cat I see on your page is Beautiful. What kind of breed is that? Anyway I find the breed Russian Blue Beautiful and oriental mystique. Your cat look like that breed. Ok, now I know: pure bred (it's nothing you eat, and it's not from the bakery. Yes of course it spells bread. Thank you google.). Sometimes I might write faulty Words, it's difficult with some Words when you don't live in an English speaking country. I don't even know the difference between breed and pedigree. That is why I use both Words.

OK seriously can anyone give peter advice that would actually help?!?!?!? This is his choice not ours if he wants to breed his cats! I am so tired of reading this forum and hearing all the negetives about it! I totally get peter's point. I mean come on want isn't cute about kittens?

Thank you for the support. But I don't find the posts only annoying. Ok, you are the 1st cat owner that is on my side. But I must add, that I have received very important information from advisors and other members on the catsite too. This information will be very helpfull when the day comes...

So I must ask (am I annoying?): my question is: when kittens are new-born. I have towels in the carboard box. Where do they do the pee and the poo-poo ? How can I make the best of the kitten's toilet requirement? 

What i do know is: the die is cast. And I must really Think about my cats to be spayed and neutered if new kittens will be born.

Peter, for newborn kittens, the momma cat takes care of their toileting needs for a while. She licks their genital area which stimulates them to pee and poop. She cleans them as well (this part does gross me out a bit). As they get older and start moving about, you will need to make a shallow litter tray with non-clumping litter available. They will learn what to do from EG.

Thank you. But do they pee and poo on the towels? That means a lot of washing, I suppose? And is it  possible to leave the mama and kittens alone during the day? I must do so.

Hi Peter,

My beautiful tortoiseshell calico, Carmella, was never fixed because I, like you, wanted to not only give her the opportunity to be a mother, but also keep one or two of her offspring. I do not believe it is cruel or irresponsible to want the cat you love to have babies for you to love. My cat is now pregnant with her first litter, will be giving birth any day now, and I am very excited and grateful to be able to more members to my family. People say "but there are so many cats in shelters that you can adopt and love, it's irresponsible to not fix your cats or to allow your cat to have kittens", or "If you really cared about your cat you would fix her". So many people have tried to shame me, or tell me that I'm being cruel and irresponsible by not only allowing, but wanting my cat to have kittens. I ignore them. They do not have to live with me, my decisions, my cat, or her kittens. My cat is not being hurt, mistreated, or anything but loved, respected, and cared for. 

However, I will be fixing my cat as soon as I am able after this litter. Please keep in mind that your cat is living with a male who will try to get her pregnant at every chance he can. What is done is done, but going forward I think that you should consider fixing BF now, and mama as soon as she is able. You might also want to separate the two of them at night, only because it sounds like your male is trying to mate with your female still... and there isn't really a purpose for the pain, so to speak. If you get BF fixed now, by the time mama is done having her litter and nursing, he will hopefully be sterile. You have given your mama cat the opportunity to have and love her children, but there really is no need to have her repeat this over and over again until her time on earth is through. BF and mama will still be the best of friends and still care about each other, even if they cannot have any more kittens together.

I hope that this helps you in your decision. We all do what we think is right, and what is best. What I think is right and best for my cat, may be very different than what is right and best for your cat. No one has all the answers. There are many opinions in this world, and just because an opinion is popular doesn't mean that it's right all the time, for everyone. Good luck and enjoy the kittens!   

DiegoJames said:

 
OK seriously can anyone give peter advice that would actually help?!?!?!? This is his choice not ours if he wants to breed his cats! I am so tired of reading this forum and hearing all the negetives about it! I totally get peter's point. I mean come on want isn't cute about kittens?

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Again, as a reminder, this site is pro neuter and spay as has already been pointed out.  Yes, everyone loves kittens, but here at TCS the majority are of the mind that we should take responsibly for the ownership of our pets, and make sure that additional cats are not brought into the world when so many are already waiting for homes.  While in some parts of the world it might be possible to find homes for these kittens, overall there are millions, literally, of homeless cats in shelters, on the streets, and being fostered world wide who would need a furever home or to be spayed and neutered and released back to their colonies, to ensure they do not reproduce and add to the populations.

Better to help those that exist, than to perpetuate the problem.  

Having said that, lets all please get back on topic to the original OP's request and try not to judge, nor make remarks which might be taken out of context or which are inflammatory to the conversation.  

It is important to check on everyone frequently, especially during the first weeks. Weigh the kittens at birth and then daily afterward. Make sure you have a supply of kitten bottles and kitten formula on hand in case EG is too tired or weak (or refuses) to feed any of the kittens. If you do e d up having to supplement any of the kittens, they will need to be fed every 2-3 hours (day and night.) Once they get to be about 3 weeks old, they can go 4-5 hours in between feeding. Once the kittens are around 6 weeks old, they be transitioning to canned food and will need multiple meals throughout the day.

Kittens an get sick very quickly and it is important that you be able to get them to the vet quickly if needed.

Hopefully things will go smoothly for you and no one will have any complications.

I advise you to have a vet exam EG very well before she gives birth (and hopefully give you an estimate of how many kittens she may have.)

Most of our rescue cats average 5-6 kittens per litter; however, we did have 1 cat that had 9 kittens (all solid black kittens at that.) It has taken us 4.5 YEARS to get all of those kittens placed in homes. The last 2 being placed earlier this year.

I encourage you to begin talking with people now about who might be interested in a kitten.

hublebuble4 said:

 
You never stop to learn. Thank you. I want to live in the UK for some years, walk with my cats and play golf. But that's only a Dream. anyway, you never stop to learn. That is one of the joy of Life. And about the Insurance I must phone to the Insurance Company what cover what? That is important. By the way the cat I see on your page is Beautiful. What kind of breed is that? Anyway I find the breed Russian Blue Beautiful and oriental mystique. Your cat look like that breed. Ok, now I know: pure bred (it's nothing you eat, and it's not from the bakery. Yes of course it spells bread. Thank you google.). Sometimes I might write faulty Words, it's difficult with some Words when you don't live in an English speaking country. I don't even know the difference between breed and pedigree. That is why I use both Words.

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Since she is already pregnant you are almost certainly too late to up the insurance to a breeder policy.

Quote: 'For example eg and bf are two nice looking and healty cats too.'

Doesn't guarantee EG won't have problems delivering, or that all the kittens will be OK.  If it did life as a breeder would be so much less stressful.

Do you know the date they first mated?  I do hope so.  Expected due date is 65-66 days after that.  If she reaches 70 days with no kittens you need to take her to a vet.  If she delivers more than a few days early the kittens are unlikely to survive.

hublebuble4 said:

 
Thank you. But do they pee and poo on the towels? That means a lot of washing, I suppose? And is it  possible to leave the mama and kittens alone during the day? I must do so.

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This is the gross part, mama cat eats it.  The same is true of newborn puppies.  It's an instinct left over from the wild, it's also why a mama cat and dog will eat the placenta, it's so that predators don't smell newborns.  Newborns are completely helpless prey. Intact males will also kill kittens so that the mama cat will come into heat again.

Most mama cats do fine on their own, but sometimes a young inexperienced mom will need a little help.  You will need to weigh the newborns daily to make sure they are gaining weight.  If one isn't gaining then you will need to bottle feed that one.

hublebuble4 said:

 
Thank you. But do they pee and poo on the towels? That means a lot of washing, I suppose? And is it  possible to leave the mama and kittens alone during the day? I must do so.

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 As vball said,  usually the mother cat  cleans up the waste during  the first few weeks, while the kittens cannot yet really pee and poo without stimulation.  She licks them to stimulate them to pee and poo and she actually consumes the waste.,  this is due to an instinct to avoid attracting predators to the nest. 

 It is usually at around 3 weeks old that  they start to be able to go on their own.  But  the mother usually still continues a little while to take care of the toileting during this transition phase ,  as they are learning to get some control over their muscles in that part of their body,  and before they  start to eat solid food .    But there is more chance for messes on their bedding. during that time,  because they might go some of the time on their own. 

Some queens are more attentive and clean than others.   With some litters , you may only need to change the bedding about once a week.   WIth others you may need to change it about every other day or even daily.       And once the kittens do start to be able to eliminate without stimulation,   you need to be checking often.   There is a good chance you may need to change their bedding daily during that period  ( starting around 3 weeks and until they learn to use the litter tray ( aka litter box or litter pan.)

  When you start out givng them litter trays, ,  you need to use  a very low sided box ,  like a baking pan with low sides,  or a cardboard tray that  tinned cat food comes in -- something easy for kitens to get into.

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You can probably leave them alone in the day.    but it is not guaranteed.   IF for some reason EG is unable  ( or unwilling!  some cats just turn out not to be into the motherhood thing)  to nurse them , in that case  you will need to bottle feed them every few hours day and night.     You can't just leave kittens all day without feeding them because they will get hypoglycemia, and can easily die. .   If you are bottle feeding very young kittnens,  you may be able to go as long as 4 hours during the day.  so you may be able to manage it  by coming home  in the middle of the day,  then making sure someone is home about 4 hours later.  Then get in    but  I seriously would not recommend waiting longer.  and you may need to do it more like every 2  hours.    

Probably she will nurse them.    Either way, it is a good idea to weigh them daily at about the same time.  

I  do think it would be a good idea to just go ahead and get BF neutered,  and if he is bothering her now trying to mate with her,  it is time to keep them separate so he doesn't make her stressed out.   

 Then keep them separated for 7 weeks to make sure she doesn't end up pregnant again right away.     Often the mother cats don't want the male cat around the ktitens when the kittens are very young anyway.  

Thank you all for all advices. Now I know a lot how to take care of the birth. I must say that the tom, Benjamin Franklin, must leave Elsa Gloria in Peace. He is just "over" her time to time. I must buy a kind of a door with bars that I have seen in my brother's "dog" home to keep bf separate from eg. But bf is so strong. I suppose he just jump over the door/fence. If there will be kittens, then I must take gf to the vet and let him be neutered (then bf who is afraid of me - I do not know why (?)), and after that I suppose bf will see me as his worst enemy ever for the rest of his Life. I suppose so. I changed the joy of Life for him.

Hi hublbuble,  I really don't think BF will hate you forever.  In my experience, neutering the male has actually been a blessing to them.  The drive to mate is so strong that when they cannot get to the female that is in heat they get terribly stressed out.  Also they will often stop eating because they are so fixated on the female.    Female cats in heat are NOT loving toward thier mates.  They turn into mini tigers, and can actually hurt him.

My best wishes to you and the kitties.  More pictures please