Heat behavior & marking in twice-spayed cat

Hi! I'm new here and I have to say I hesitate to ask the internet for advice, but we're getting kind of desperate! Long story, but I'll try to keep it short (sorry, didn't work too well). About me - I had 1 cat for 20+ years, we (my husband & I, no kids) have had 1-2 retired greyhounds for 17 years, no dogs right now. Never had a behavior problem we couldn't figure out. Good vet I've been going to for 20 years.

We got Earl, neutered tom, from the shelter about 2 yrs ago. He loves dogs, very social. He was a stray, neutered as an adult, has a real tomcat look to him. In Feb. our dog died, and Earl got really sick shortly after. We decided he needed company, weren't ready for another dog, so we brought home Pumpkin (P for short here) from the shelter in early April - spayed, fully declawed, female taken to shelter w/another cat because owners "had a baby." We introduced the cats slowly, Earl was VERY anxious to get to know her, and pretty aggressive with the chasing once we let them be together. We made sure to watch them, P had places to go to get away, etc. Fast forward about 6 weeks and P starts acting like she's in heat, Earl is chasing and grabbing, honest to god neutered cat sex in my little house.

So P goes to the vet. I show her a video I have on my phone. Vet says probably need to spay again, sometimes a little is left behind, it happens. So we do the surgery, vet says all she found was a little fatty tissue where the ovaries were, she removed it. Cats settle down for a few weeks, all looks good, so we decide to bring in a foster dog. About 10 days later P acts like she’s in heat again and this time we notice she’s peeing on things. Another vet visit checking for UTI, urinalysis, everything looks AOK. We've got 2 oversized litterboxes that get scooped at least twice daily, unscented litter, the least dusty I can find. She gets shut in the laundry room in the basement (big room, window, not all bad), the peeing stops, the dog moves on to another home because she needs to be with another dog.

ANYWAY, after a couple more months with no stress to the cat’s life, we’ve gone through this a couple more times and the last time the vet ran a LH test for hormonal whatever, and it indicated that she is having hormonal issues. Indicating an ovarian remnant somewhere. Vet says she has never before not found what she was looking for when she went in for a 2^nd spay. OK, so at least it wasn’t dog-related so I still want a dog, so Monday night we had a dog come for a home visit. Dog was only around for about an hour, P didn’t even come upstairs. Then last night she started the calling & rubbing again, Earl was chasing, and then we found pee on stuff. HELP?

That is really strange.  I know it happens with needing a second spay but that usually takes care of it.  I haven't dealt with this issue so hopefully someone who has will answer.  I have been very lucky with one spay being enough.

Forgot to mention she is an orange female (my avatar), which as I understand it (now, I didn't know this when we picked her), is genetically odd. I'm wondering how genetically odd. We do have access to a vet school and money isn't a huge issue, but at this point the pile of money spent is already bigger than the cat!

I wonder if going to a vet university would help?

The vet school (Iowa State University) is probably next. Our vet even mentioned that and will send records over. P even has a file started there because she developed quite a large swelling at the incision site for her 2nd spay (Friday night of Memorial Day weekend) so we had her checked out there. (more $$$!) I'm just looking for any ideas at all right now!

Orange girls are not really so odd, just uncommon. About 5% of orange cats are female. Basically the gene for that color is on the X chromosome, so when BOTH X's have it, you can get an orange girl.

Now I'm just going to SPECULATE here, not a cat expert, just a guy who reads too much about them and has an interest in biology... so I read that even fixed males are not totally devoid of testosterone as some is produced in the adrenal glands. It isn't enough to lead to the secondary sexual characteristics/morphisms (broad jowls, penile spines), but it isn't absent. You said she has hormonal issues... so (more speculating), maybe something is up with the pituitary gland, perhaps "instructing" either the adrenals or any tiny remnant (or sensitive) tissue to create just enough hormones to lead to changes in behavior?

I consider this wild, layman speculation. You didn't say what age she is.... pituitary tumor? Not trying to frighten in any way... I'm just sort of thinking "out loud" in a stream of consciousness way. This is rare enough in humans... Well, regardless, I love them orange girls, got one myself... 7 months old now. She was spayed at 4 months at the shelter, my guy was neutered at 4 months at home (he is now 9 months old)... and if they weren't fixed I'd be real concerned with some of their play... he is way too interested in her scent in some private places, and she grooms him like crazy. I'm just chalking it up to they just like how each other smell.

I hope you get this figured out, it is an interesting puzzle, for sure.

Urgh... you didn't say whose urine it was (now that would be a trick, eh?) - I remember from "My Cat from H*LL" a case of a neutered male that was mounting a toy. Said he was fixed as an adult... so I figure sometimes once they "experience" the act, they may try and recreate it even if their equipment isn't working right. This can be fixed by behavioral modification techniques - wonder about females (the spraying part, the other part is a bit brutal on them)?

Gah - I didn't mean to write so much, especially about something I don't know anything about... hope it all works out without becoming a footnote in a veterinarian journal.

This is infact, ovarian tissue remnants, I just went through this same scenario recently, and sure enough, some very small tissue will STILL produce hormones and she goes into heat.

Granted, can't get prego but will continue this until exploratorial surgery is done and the tissue is found.

Small tissue remnants can be hidden, and obviously are in her, so the vet who charged you already for her re-spay will hopefully cut you some real slack in the way of cost, since she needs it yet again.

NBrazil, I am also wondering if Earl's chasing behavior triggers the hormonal stuff (or does the hormonal stuff trigger the chasing? Chicken, egg) We know P (she's about 3 yrs old) is doing the peeing because we've seen her a couple times, Earl tattles or shows us where the pee is, and Earl's pee *reeks* but this has hardly any smell. Plus she's the one skulking around searching for a place to pee. And we haven't had any problems when she's in the basement, or before she came. The "LH" test I mentioned tests for luteinizing hormone, which, as I understand it, should be high in a spayed cat, and it came back negative. Or I might have that backwards

Catwoman 707, I needed to hear that! The 2nd spay was not done while she was showing signs of heat, and I guess that may make a difference in whether they can find the remnants or not. Husband is opposed to putting her through a 3rd surgery, but I've heard this can become almost continuous when a cat is not bred. But I'm a little worried this might be a brain thing and exploratory surgery won't find anything!

Oh poop, no I wouldn't worry about it being a brain thing!

She will drive you crazy with this behavior until it's done again.

Mine sure did, it got to be like a weekly thing, she was in heat more than not!

I hated to put her through yet another surgery too, she is felv positive, was sick, then spayed, then had a tumor removed, then spayed again....she is FINALLY fine

Well worth it.

Give it time, your husband will come around....) He will be annoyed soon enough.

I bet the vet will be veeery careful not to miss even the slightest tissue this time around.

Mine called it an exploratory surgery since he had to go fishing! He did get it all though.

Interesting, chicken or egg. Dunno, new to this cat ownership... maybe a breeder would know. I mean I'm still amazed that cats will go back into heat while nursing!

Sounds like Catwoman has had experience - difficult situation... I can see what you are saying too. So, does the LH test confirm blood chemistry associated with heat? That sounds like a good first step. Way outside my reading, sigh.

In case anybody's interested, we did end up going to the vet school to find out what our options were. The reproductive vet told us about hormone implants similar to human birth control that would shut down the cycle, but it's hard to know how long they last in individual cats so you have to keep going back usually every couple of months. And any time you mess with the endocrine system there can be side effects. We ended up going with one more spay surgery. They had a protocol that involved some timing with her going into heat (not a problem because it happened every 2 weeks even in the winter), a couple of injections and progesterone tests, so it was kind of time-consuming but in the end it worked. The injections caused the ovarian tissue to engorge and change color so it ended up being a pretty quick surgery and uneventful recovery. And at least so far (1 month or so) it looks like it worked!

Oh, very interesting. Glad to hear a solution was found.

I realize this thread is from several years ago but I am just now experiencing some of what others have had. We got a cat from a local humane society about 6 months ago. When we adopted her they mentioned that she had been returned to the place because she didn't get along with the owner's other animals. They also mentioned that she had been spayed twice and still could go into heat although she can't get pregnant. We didn't think a lot about that and naively thought it wouldn't be an issue. Well she has gone into heat twice since we've brought her home. The first time she did pee outside the litter box, mostly on plastic bags. We bought her a second larger litter box. This last time she didn't pee outside the boxes but did have the usual behaviors of howling and raising her behind with tail to the side, etc. She was also very loving and do a lot of head butting! That was nice, the howling wasn't of course. My basic question is how often is this likely to happen. Also is it hurting her in any way? She doesn't seem to be in pain or really bothered by it. She is 8 yrs old. Not sure I want to put her through another surgery and not sure I want to spend the money assuming it will be expensive since they will probably need to do a thorough search for tissue. Any thoughts would be appreciated!