Henry May Have Kidney Disease

I had a cat that had the stomach tube and I did the syringe thing for quite some time with her. The tube had a little ball bearing type thing that held it in place inside her tummy and then bandages around her middle to hold it all in place. The initial insertion was surgery and then after that she came home. We did the feedings slowly a few times a day and she eventually recovered. The tube starting coming loose and so they took it out and did more tests to see how her liver was doing. It was all good so they just removed it. She lived to nearly 19.

She eventually developed kidney disease because of her age but we managed that as well for 5 years.

As for the costs, some vets also take care credit. It's a credit card specifically for medical stuff. You can use it for human doctors and dentists as well as some vets.

I wish I had advice, but all I can offer is tons of   for you and Henry!

Sorry to hear everything is going on. The weight loss and feeling the spine and hips as mentioned is a classic sign of ckd. Once you get the blood work back this will help to give a better idea of what is going on. The biggest thing right now is to get food into him to recover from the HL. It sounds like the syringe feeding is working, so this is the way I would probably go. I did have one cat that we had to have a feeding tube put in for because he had stopped eating. At the time my parents were the ones financialy responsible for him, although I did most of his care from the time that I found him as a kitten. The feeding tube made things easier, but it is definitly expensive. If Henry is doing well with the syringe feeding than that is probably the route I would go. If he does have ckd than smaller more frequent feedings may work better. Ckd cats tend to have issues with excessive stomach acid and I found that with Riley if he eats a little here and there through out the day that he seems to not have as many issues with excessive stomach acid. Also if phosphorus levels are elevated this can make a cat not feel good and not want to eat as much. There are things that can be done to help lower phosphorus levels from feeding a low phosphorus food to using phosphorus binders. Tanya's site has a lot of good information on this. Once you get his bloodwork back you can see if this is an isuue and discuss with your vet what course of action to take.

I know that dealing with a diagnoises of ckd is very overwhelming at first, the first week after I found out what was going on with Riley I was a mess. With dealing with HL with Henry I am sure you are feeling overwhelmed, just remember to breathe. No matter what else is going on with Henry the most important thing is that he is eating. Also don't get too caught up over the numbers, use them as a guide to help with treatment. One of the best pieces of advice that I have read in the ckd community is to treat the cat and not the numbers. Thinking of you and Henry and sending good thoughts your way.

Recovering from HL is definiitely NOT an overnight thing.  Several weeks, at best.  And once he starts eating on his own again, you will still need to monitor very closely, and continue to assist feed him to make sure he is getting enough calories not to backslide. Often, if you are monitoring his numbers (bloodwork wise), they look worse before they look better, even though they start eating again, so that in itself can be confusing. 

I'm so glad he's not fighting the syringe feeding .   That makes things a whole lot easier all the way around.  Now if you want to add some of those supplements referenced in that thread I posted, you can probably just crush them and add them right into his food.  I didn't check into them, but am guessing that would work.  They are supposed to help the liver heal. 

Continued vibes  

Just got home from work. With my commute, I'm gone almost twelve hours per day. I would sit with Henry all night feeding him if I had to, but he will only accept so much. I found it hard to get the necessary quantities in yesterday, and he hardly accepted any this morning. I've been using a 5 ml syringe, which seems so tiny. But a 22 ml baster was too big... idk what I'm even doing. I don't know if he's going to make it with this alone. I've started a gofundme page, but with little hope of actually raising the money I need. I'm terrified of coming home from work one day and finding him dead. I'm so, so sad. I keep thinking if I could get him past the HL, it would buy us some time to figure out what else is wrong. But I dunno if he'll make it past the HL on a syringe alone. It's SO MUCH food to get down him against his will.

I know this is a disheartening condition to nurse a cat through.  I was working a 12 hour night shift when my cat had it so I was gone about 13 hours.  I only worked the 12 hour shifts three nights a week.  I was giving him 60 mls of the A/D diluted half and half with water a day.  On the days that I worked I could only get in 3 feedings, it was the best I could do.  His was so diluted because it had to be like water to go through the feeding tube.  The vet gave me a 30 ml syringe to use, I think you can get them at Petsmart.

I know how sick he is and you're thinking that just forcing food down him can't work but the food is exactly what he needs.

I don't know how the raw equates with the A/D but without dilution it would be 30 ml per feeding.

It's encouraging to hear that it can be done. I managed to get more down him after my last post. I figured out a better angle to hold him at, so I got a lot  more down him this time. I cradled him like a baby and then sort of nudged the syringe into his mouth. A bit dribbled out and it was messy, but it was serious progress. I'll try a bit more before bed, and then again before work tomorrow. And I'm gonna look into the A/D food as well, though he may need to do raw until Saturday, as by the time I get out of work, the vet is closed. It's tough because I want to take off of work and spend all of my time with him. I missed work just recently for illness; if I don't go, I lose my job. Which obviously means NO care for Henry, or any of the other animals. But I just wanna sit at home all day and watch him/cuddle him. Eagerly waiting for Friday night when I can spend the whole weekend with him.

First things first, If you can afford the e-tube, do it. You can manage to get the right amount of nutrition into him. I am concerned that the syringe feeding isn't enough, especially for such an ill call .

My guy, Kato, stopped eating second day after I adopted him. He had a double wammy of an upper respiratory infection and an abscess in his thigh. The pain and runny nose turned him off food.

My vet friends told me cats are sensitive and there are many reasons why they might go off food. I was advised against syringe feeding because there is a risk they may inhale the food. Also, Kato had no interest in having any food in his mouth.

I had Kato in the vet office the first day he stopped eating, so I was lucky he didn't develop liver problems (but for some cats, 1 day is enough).

I do know someone who's cat came back from the liver disease and lived many more happy years. Food is the cure.

I'm not sure I would go by his skin color to know if his liver is better - he probably needs periodic blood work and weigh-in..

When I got my guy, he was 9 pounds and by the end of a week, he dropped to 7. I tube fed him for almost 3 weeks and he suddenly started eating. Happiest day of my life.

Glad to hear Kato improve! Sounds like he had a rough go of it. Unfortunately, I would need AT LEAST $750 up front, for a minimum vet bill of $1500. Vet bill could go up to $2500, meaning I'd need over $1,000 down. If I had the money in my account, I would spend it on him without a second thought. Unfortunately, I literally do not have it, and have no credit to get it. I'm trying to run a gofundme (I put the link in the SOS!), but I know the odds of that kind of money coming through are slim. I was warned against the risk of aspiration, but the vet said it would probably be better to syringe feed him than to do nothing at all.

Any tips for preventing the aspiration of food, anyone?

Hang in there.     When I had to syringe feed Sebastian, I got all upset when I thought about it too much. I literally had to not think and just do it. It was really hard.

Did you see Carolina's video of her syringe feeding Lucky? http://www.thecatsite.com/t/227858/syringe-feeding-lucky-video-if-your-cat-is-not-eating

I actually did it a very similar way except I didn't have Sebastian in a bag. To prevent aspiration, I aimed the syringe at the roof of the mouth, just like in the video.

I'm so sorry to hear about Henry!

I don't understand why the quote is so high. Does he HAVE to stay at the hospital after having the feeding tube inserted? Here that's around $300. It's a very quick procedure and doesn't require heavy sedation... :dk:

I know you're gone long hours during the day, and even though it is ideal that you get his daily nutritional need into him, if you can get more than 50% of it into him, that may be enough to get him over the hump. Dr. Pierson (CatInfo) says she's never seen a kitty develop HL getting at least that amount of food, so hopefully it means that by receiving that amount of food, you can get him through this. :cross:

When I syringe feed, I squirt the syringe into the back of the cheek. I found less comes back out that way.

I don't know what syringes you're using, but if you can afford these, they are SO much easier to work with than the ones you can get from the vet:
Just snip the ends. They don't have those rubber ends on the plunger, so they don't become "sticky." They're 15ml each. I know this will mean a very sleep-deprived existence for a little while, but if he'll only take 5ml at a time, just try every half hour to hour while you're home. When Ming Loy had her flare with pancreatitis, I fed her 0.25 ounces of food every 2 hours (she only eats 3 ounces of food a day).

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to call the hospital myself to check. That was simply what I was quoted by the vet who wanted to refer me to the hospital. It included the surgery to get the tube in, and he also seemed to think that while Henry would not need to be hospitalized for the duration, he would need to be for a short time. But now that you say it, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to call them up tomorrow and verify that these are the prices.

Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely keep those in mind. I watched the Lucky video from above, and that helped. If I can, I'd like to get him a cat bag, but we'll see where my funds are at in a few days. Right now, since I can manage it, albeit messily (how does she do it so CLEANLY?!), it's not an emergency to get one.

thevegancuddler said:

 
If I can, I'd like to get him a cat bag, but we'll see where my funds are at in a few days. Right now, since I can manage it, albeit messily (how does she do it so CLEANLY?!), it's not an emergency to get one.

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You may be able to use some other kind of bag, like a duffel bag or backpack.     Just make sure the zipper doesn't catch his skin/fur. Many people wrap them up tightly in a towel or blanket. There are other videos on YouTube.

I hate to make it sound like a sport, but you do get better the more you do it. My first time syringe feeding Sebastian was a nightmare. It was all over the place. I had such a mess to clean up. I really had the hang of it after a couple days. I kept trying different positions and methods. I found one that worked, and didn't stress him out. Sebastian doesn't like to be picked up or held like a baby, so not being to do either of those things made it very challenging.

Keep at it. You can do this. 

Hey guys! Got home late today after a very frustrating day at work and drive. But I DID manage to get Henry some A/D and some new syringes. Tonight, I fed him more than half of what he needs in a day. I'm gonna try for the rest before bed. I feel more confident about the A/D, because I know the portion sizes for sure, it's packed full of nutrients and calories, etc. It was still a mess, but oh well. Messes can be cleaned. The important thing is that he eats! A bit of it misses his mouth, but again, this is still a stark improvement, so I'm feeling good about that.

I did notice today, though, that he is spending a LOT of time in the litter box. Like... he just sits there. He usually goes right after I feed him. Do you think his body is just doing weird things because of the "re-feeding", is it possible that his instinct is to go potty after ingesting food, or might it be that some sort of urinary tract infection/disease/blockage is the reason why he stopped eating in the first place? He's not straining and doesn't seem to be in pain or panicked or anything like that. If it might be the latter reason, would Clavamox help? I was given some of that because, hey, it's cheap, and maybe there's some off-chance it'll cure what the original problem was.

He may be constipated from not eating.  As long as there is urine in the litter box I wouldn't be too concerned about it right now.  The A/D is a very good consistency for syringe feeding so that should make things much easier.  Most cats really like the taste as well which also really helps.  Over the weekend I would go ahead and give him a chance to eat some on his own before you syringe feed him.

I don't usually recommend kibble or free feeding but if you still have some kibble you might want to leave a little out for him when you're gone.  That way if he feels better and wants to eat a little it will be available for him.

Oh, good to know! He has urinated a little, usually after eating. So that's good news. I'd leave what little kibble I have left out for him, but I have five other cats that would just beat him to the punch, and short of locking him in the bathroom for the purpose of offering him the chance to eat... he doesn't stand a chance, haha. I think maybe the bathroom wouldn't bother him; it was the room I introduced him to when I brought him home for the first time, and I've noticed my cats all considered their "first" spot their own personal nest (though Henry is the only one who has been introduced in this home; the three kittens all had the bathroom in another apartment, and Noelle had the spot under my desk by her own choice). But I like the idea of him having a comfy bed to lay on during the day, too.

Update: Henry just vomited his food all over the bed. ): It was quite a lot of vomit, more than I've ever seen from a cat. Did I just feed him too much in one sitting? The vet said, based on his weight of a little over 10 lbs (and he is emaciated at that weight, btw - he still has the swinging gut, because that doesn't just shrink back into his body at this age, but you can feel his brow and cheek bones when you pet him, his jaw juts out, and you can feel his spine and hips with clarity; it's awful), that he should be eating a can and a half-ish, so like 8-8.5 ounces. Which is obviously more once you dilute with water.  I fed in two sessions today, as I didn't get the food until after work. I guess that was too much? Or is it common for them to vomit a lot at first upon initial "refeeding"?

I cleaned up the blankets, and it came out to the point where it didn't stain, but now my other cats are fighting over who gets to lick it. Sigh. =/ Today has been rough.

When you said how much you fed him in what I figured was one sitting, I wondered if it might be too much.  Guess it was.  I know when you are feeding them when they have a tube in, you have to do it in small portions or else it will come right back up.  Perhaps syringe feeding is similar.  Or at least maybe you have to do it pretty slowly like with a feeding tube.  Plus he was used to eating raw, wasn't he, then he got switched over to the A/D?  It might be a combination of both those things.  Are you giving him probiotics along with the food?  You might try that, plus digestive enzymes, because they help the food digest easily.  I know some cats will gain weight quickly when using digestive enzymes.  (maybe run it by your Vet first though)  It says right on the bottle to feed senior cats more of it. 

I hope this was just a one time only, but with HL cats, I seem to recall this happening more than once .  (sorry, it's been literally YEARS since I had my HL cat) 

At least the clean up is easier with canned than raw

Oh no! I'm so sorry he vomited all over your bed! 

I agree that you may have to try less next time, take a break, and then go again. It's such a pain, I know.

Also, you said that you are diluting with water. I was doing this at first, too, and thought it would be impossible to ever really get the proper amount into Sebastian. I was advised not to add water, and just fill the top of the syringe with straight A/D before putting the plunger on. If it seems too thick, warm it up just slightly in the microwave. This made a world of a difference. I was able to get more of the actual food in him without all the added water. It's possible that the extra water gave Henry a feeling of being overly full, and he just couldn't handle it all.

GoHolistic said:

 
Also, you said that you are diluting with water. I was doing this at first, too, and thought it would be impossible to ever really get the proper amount into Sebastian. I was advised not to add water, and just fill the top of the syringe with straight A/D before putting the plunger on. If it seems too thick, warm it up just slightly in the microwave. This made a world of a difference. I was able to get more of the actual food in him without all the added water. It's possible that the extra water gave Henry a feeling of being overly full, and he just couldn't handle it all.

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I'll give this a try. I'm not sure if the plunger of the syringe I'm using is  removable like that though. And you're right - seemed impossible to even get the A/D in the syringe without some water! I mean, I know it's a very smooth pate, but still.