feral cat ownership laws?

Hello again, I have a question about who can legally own feral cat colonies. Who if anyone can legally own them? I ask because someone seems to be taking over the colony I care for in a very invasive way. These cats have many who feed them and love them but I am the only one who crawled through the mud under a fence to set up winter shelters. The shelters are hard to reach and I did this to convince the cats to live deeper in the woods for their protection. Fixed or not some people don't like cats and feeding them openingly was a possible concern in my head. I also feed them in the morning very early when dark for their protection too, same reasons. I check on them a second time after work in the daylight to keep tabs and monitor and just hang out and love. Today when I went back the shelters I made were rearranged, new ones added and a feeding station. This wouldnt be a problem except the shelters were rearranged facing north wind, the added shelters had only one hole(not good considering all the racoons and possum) and the feeding station was left with unpicked up food. Also some shelter were placed in areas completely visible to possible destructive teenagers and management. I believe this person must care to go through this trouble but also find this quite aggressive. I also couldn't find some kittens which I know for sure were still nursing. These cats have not yet been TNR'd but even if neutered I would have a problem with this. 

I don't want to be a control freak and have a hard time saying "MY" cats. But ownership might be in their best interest here. I also realize everyone who loves cats thinks they know what is best for cats But it is cold in michigan and North wind should be avoided, they get so much kibble and again with no water. This was a place I did my second feeding to make sure they got some wet food and water. Who ever did this put a shelter right in front of the only hole in the fence to fit through which is camouflaged by vines and other growth. The shelter was like a big sign, come here and investigate. 

any advice would be appreciated

Ferals are usually not technically ownable cats under most ordinances.  Caregivers are just that, caregivers.  However, having said that, the person who takes responsibility for them can be seen as their owners.

It sounds like you may need to either leave a note on the feeders and/or shelters with your contact info or wait around to see if you can see who this new person is.  He or she obviously cares what is happening to the cats.  It would be a good idea to meet them and start working together.

You also need to check your local laws.  We have an ordinance in my town that its written to help support caregivers but that stops short of saying they are the colony's "owners."  It is realistic because these cats are not owned in any sense of the word.

BTW - I left another message on another of your posts (Supplements for ferals).  Take a minute and think about what I wrote.

It is really turning into a nightmare here. I am beyond devastated. They have moved my shelters that the cats have been using as their central station completely off property. Accidently got people involved who would rather shoot the cats and wont allow trapping on their area of woods. Reported me to apt management for building shelters and feeding. Apparently I am banned from interaction with cats? But the MOST disturbing-   To calm myself down i took a drive by another site of theirs where the cats have been neutered and have a caregiver. I did this in hopes of seeing something promising, of 'in the end everything will be ok'.... What I saw was a turn over shelter in a little creek. It had only one entrance. I went to put it upright and heard a thud. Their was a dead cat in the shelter. We had violent storms here two days ago. I have been writing their facebook and telling them to put weights in the shelters they are making for my cats. To make sure there is also an exit. I have been telling them they dont know the dynamics of my area, people or cat wise. I literally have no idea what to do without getting arrested. I sensed by their brute approach that they werent intelligent enough to carry the project out successfully. I wrote them this morning after noting the queen was gone, realizing they probably dont know where her very small still nursing babies are. The cats are now in more danger than before all because I made one phone call to the wrong group looking for help. It is a bizarre twist of fate. I have no idea how to help these cats. 

Oh that is sooooooooooooooooooo sad! That is just devastating. Completely, totally, devastating. I can't even imagine. :grphug2: :grphug2: :grphug2:

Have you received something in writing from anyone? It may be an issue of lobbying the apartment management? Obviously it would have to involve getting the cats sterilized - an actual TNR program, not just caring for the cats as it seems you have been doing. But maybe that is an approach to take?

Alley Cat Allies has many helpful brochures for just this purpose: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=357

We used Feral Cats and the Public and the one on the vacuum effect when we needed to take action.

Caring for ferals is a delicate situation because, unless done fully on one's own property (or with full permission of the property owner), probably everything the caretaker does is technically illegal (unless your city is feral-friendly and it's on city property). Which means that if the wrong person decides to be a jerk about it, the feral caretaker would officially be in the wrong.

In many places, if you have gotten the cat a rabies shot (for true ferals, typically done when spayed/neutered), you are the legal owner of the cat. But again, it's a delicate situation because owned cats are not supposed to be on someone else's property. So invoking ownership could get you an "animal-at-large" ticket.

The whole system is really a mess . Sorry things have turned bad for you and your ferals. See if you can get in contact with whomever is moving the shelters so you can collaborate on placement and other details.

They are an official TNR trapper group I spoke to. I wanted info mostly on help for my later plans. My plan was to TNR these cats summerish. I needed time. I have been watching and trying to understand what their habits are, how many, dynamics....it seemed like a very large project considering the strange turn over rate and area they covers because of adjacent apt complexes. I wasn't in a hurry because I didnt see signs of suffering and these cats/relatives have been here far longer than me. At the end of the conversation I told her my plans and she disagreed insisting to do it now. Like all TNR groups she is swamped with work so i see it very telling of her personality to put my cats as priority. Theyre covering their tracks with lies saying they had many complaints about the cats before my call, Trust me, nobody in this apt complex demographic has ever even heard of TNR...I could go on and on. I have been writing them on facebook and they only see it as challenging them. I am just being walked over. But I am concerned for the cats now only. 

I just went back to see what they did. The cats are disoriented and spread about the woods and in parking lot. They took their shelters I made them reliant on. For what purpose I have no idea. They also have lined the whole fence area with kibble? I believe they will remove not return all the cats now. Everyone(neighboring house owners) see and know and NOW has opinions because they talked to everyone. Like the man next to apt fencing that would rather just shoot them. He had no idea of their existence before. I was being very covert for a reason. I would write them on facebook and say " YOu need to be more discrete, you are attracting attention.." I really think I could have gotten it done on very minimal involvement from non tnr people. 

I have only texts sent to my sister in writing. She found them for me. They won't contact me directly. I am regrouping. If I can convince management I could do the job better maybe they will stop. Don't know. Too emotional at the moment. Kinda wish I would have just left them alone in the first place. They were doing fine. without my shelters people can just pick up and move and food they didnt actually need. Incredible..

To be fair, summer is kind of a crummy time to do TNR because most of the females will be pregnant. So either you'd have to put it off or do a lot of spay/aborts, which nobody really wants to do . October, November, December are when the females aren't usually pregnant. So I can see why they wanted to get to it quickly.

And legally, they probably do have to talk to the neighbors :dk:. You can let them know that the one guy wants to kill the cats, so they can look out for him. Unfortunately once you put traps out it can attract all the wrong kind of attention. But hopefully everything will get sorted out.

Their notification IS what brought it to the attention of the man who likes to shoot his gun. Summer, I did learn through research, isnt the greatest time. Those were my plans before. And honestly I believe the situation here would have benefited from more understanding and waiting to be effective. If that meant a year so be it. The cats have been here forever and gettin along fine. The spay/abort issue I have only recently learned about and was hoping it wasnt true. That is why I felt more qualified. I know the cats. I wouldnt allow that. The kittens should be born, I would socialize and find homes...There is too much hysteria and mad rush in this movement. These particular cats had time and patience was only going to help. They didnt need to be blanketed under the statistics. 

It is all ego on this leaders part. 

These woods are completely UNlooked after. The traps would have never been noticed. The neighbors didnt need to know. Their backyards stop and the rest is owned by a landscaping company that keeps no account of what is happening past their actual business. The apt manangment is run by under paid workers who have to deal with complaints about crack dealers and people pooping in the pool, for real. They don't care to have to care...The TNR group doesnt know the dynamics and I kept telling them.

You should check what the laws are in your area for ferals and for humane animal treatment, etc...

Where I live the laws says you have to register to be a feral cat caretaker.This is the law in my county: http://www.pawschicago.org/tnrforms/cook_county_feral_cats_ordinance.pdf

Is there a cat shelter or rescue group that can help you with the problems you've been having? You could try contacting a national group such as Alley Cat Allies and see if they know of anyone in your area or may be able to help: http://www.alleycat.org/

I was born and raised in a suburb of Detroit, so I definitely know how cold it gets with the wind and all, but know nothing of the legal end of ferals and their care.

Here in CA it is often an unofficial ownership by the caretaker who has tnr'd the colony and continues with care.

The dead cat is quite upsetting, how horribly sad......

Normally when a colony is discovered, we work hard and fast to get them all fixed, to prevent future babies born unwanted.

I have to agree that it's basically universal that spring brings babies, so now IS the time to get this done.

Sometimes, despite your frustration, it's best to handle this with sugar coating, maybe offer help/support rather than ownership.

In the end, what really matters most are healthy fixed and vaccinated colony cats who are fed and watered regularly, to live out their lives in harmony and safety.

catwoman707 said:

 
I was born and raised in a suburb of Detroit, so I definitely know how cold it gets with the wind and all, but know nothing of the legal end of ferals and their care.

Here in CA it is often an unofficial ownership by the caretaker who has tnr'd the colony and continues with care.

The dead cat is quite upsetting, how horribly sad......

Normally when a colony is discovered, we work hard and fast to get them all fixed, to prevent future babies born unwanted.

I have to agree that it's basically universal that spring brings babies, so now IS the time to get this done.

Sometimes, despite your frustration, it's best to handle this with sugar coating, maybe offer help/support rather than ownership.

In the end, what really matters most are healthy fixed and vaccinated colony cats who are fed and watered regularly, to live out their lives in harmony and safety.

Click to expand...

Their approach is bad for the movement PERIOD. This always has a backlash. 

"“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”

Just got back from feeding the ferals left. They werent hungry because of trappers bait. They were cold though considering they removed all their shelters I built unfortunately making them reliant on. Some small kittens were huddle over sewer grate in middle of parking lot for the steam heat. Some I saw crawl out of cement pipe that was close to removed shelters. This is an example of what aggressive beast I am dealing with-

When I made those shelters I used some of my paintings(I am an artist..) for roofs and to create tunnels between the shelters and provide awnings... These were large paintings that could cover up to three rubbermaid box shelters. it was a great success. The cats loved the tunnel effect and appreciated having space that offered protection when they didnt want to be completely covered inside shelter. These were painted on wood and sealed for water proof. they were paintings of my family and life. It was my private offering to and prayer for these beautiful beings that had allowed me into their lives. Just between me and them. This morning when throwing out the empty cans of friskies I saw them in the dumpster. 

I really don't care about overall statistics. From day one I was approaching my situation as individual. I came to this site to talk about the specifics of what I was observing not to get indoctrinated. 

Oh my gosh! This is just awful! I would be beside myself! I was thinking of asking a TNR group for help with my colony but now I'm not. I am so sorry this has happened . My prayers are with you and your kitties!

Pocho I certainly hope I haven't contributed to your feeling indoctrinated, I think everyone on the catsite, while we all have our own opinions, sometimes agree, sometimes opinions vary a great deal, we are all deeply caring, compassionate people.

Some/many of us are active in rescue, and do tend to look at things sometimes as 'the big picture', or as overall statistics, since we are the 'lucky' ones who are overly aware beyond what we choose, of just how bad the overpopulation really is, so we think in this mindset, asap, avoid pregnancy/unwanted-homeless kittens born, etc.

I do want you to know, that I have reread your posts, and can feel just how heartfelt your actions are and have been with this colony, and they are truly privelaged cats indeed.

While your plan is non traditional, it is admirable to say the least.

You are patient and gentle, your approach is cautious and comfortable, allowing time and rather than unsettling, almost assuring, and the cats surely feel this from you.

Not to mention the great personal donation of your paintings, that is so touching to me. Sort of gave me an ache in my heart for a minute when I read your paintings were seen in the dumpster.

I just wanted you to know, I have gratitude and great appreciation for what you have and are doing for these cats.

Pocho. You are among cat lovers. You are also among people who've slogged it out in rescue and TNR for many years. As I say, some of my responses are certainly "jaded" by that perspective.

I think we all bring something valuable to the table in discussions. There is no turning back, there is only going forward now, so to find a potentially happier compromise, perhaps from seeing our thinking in the matter, you will be better equipped to approach this group. :dk: :cross:

We see things differently: our experiences inform our outlook. You have had - until now - a wonderfully protected clowder. I think catwoman said it well. We all, I expect, have great gratitude and appreciation for what you have done and are doing for the cats. You have given so very much to them, it's a holistic, spiritual experience for you. :heart2:

Sadly, it is like old cultures. The new one has moved in, and a new path must be forged.

The bizzareness of my experience and unfolding of events has me still in a state of shock. Everyone likes to be understood and it is a lonely thing to be misunderstood. I feel understood here now and thank you guys. Likewise, I wanted to give quality understanding to the felines in my life. Understanding means seeing the individual cat or human. So I wouldnt be scared to contact TNR groups, just realize everyone and everything, situation is individual. My experience with this individual group is just that, one particular thing, like me, like my cats.` If you have specific ideas about how your colony should be handled, call different groups and speak to them that way. As if you are looking for a match to your ideas. I had no idea tnr can involve aborting kittens. That is one example of making sure you are on the same page. OK thankyou

The REALLY weird thing about this? So many people have trouble finding ANYONE to help, let alone a group that just storm troops in and... takes over. Which, in the end, is what so many people want.

Yes, bizarre indeed.



for you and for the cats & kittens.

...and maybe it will help you to post in the Crossing the Bridge forum, for the kitty you found after the storm. :heart2:

Yesterday I did major foot work and realized the tremendous scope of the feral cat population in my area. Not only do a patch of boxed in woods about half mile radius provide ground for them and all the dumpsters in the parking lot of my complex. The whole areas surrounding on other sides of fencing has very down trodden houses some even abandoned with lots that are being taken over by nature again, many old sheds, abandoned cars and other apts.... I saw many spots where people are feeding and more very shabby makeshift shelters. I saw cats very close to the grounds I have been covering for years that i have never seen before. I always knew it would be a big project that would have to be on going but now think to do it correctly it would have to be around a two mile square block. I am not seeing cats run over on the busy roads surrounding because everything is nestled in, confined almost protected interconnected, there is no need to cross a road when you can just hop a fence. I still don't understand the high turnover rate in areas? Like i said I had an idea but nothing beats seeing. The TNR group that took over are focusing only on one spot and have warned me to not go into the woods that the maintenance men are watching... I now see there are several ways of entering the woods where I could find permission. I have written the tnr group and told them about the scope and my new estimates on numbers. They see me as antagonistic only. I don't believe they will have the endurance to do this properly. They seem fixated mostly the cats I clearly had the most personal arrangement with and the area i made shelters. 

My new plan is to just completely disappear and wait, let them feel accomplished...then go about finishing it over a long period of time while watching over the small colony they take care for. I think what I am dealing with is a relatively new group with alot of fire in them and 'passion' which is blinding them.