So here are the pictures
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can somebody help me with the fur color and pattern of these one day old kittens?
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- #2
Well, the orange one, def has tabby markings. The other two is what call "peach" but they are not even overly that. In the photo above, they almost appear to have a fever coat. (white tips) You may find they change in the coming weeks. Beautiful mama!
I'm not seeing the kittens in person or in very good lighting ( and you don't want them in bright lights at this age) .
The one definitely is Red Tabby. The pattern looks like what is called a broken mackerel tabby pattern. but is sort of borderline between Red Mackerel Tabby and Red Spotted Tabby. and I would want to wait and see how it looks as the kitten gets older. then see photos from the side view of the body.
The other 2 are probably Cream Tabbies. Cream is the dilute of Red. It would make sense they could be Cream since the mum looks like Blue Tortie and White ( which is also called Blue Cream and White ).
(but as Levi68 says, it's barely cream. It's a sort of in-between color. It is a dilute color, and appears to have a rather warm tone,
Another possibility is Cream Smoke. For that to be possible, at least one of the parents must be a silver or smoke ( It can be hard to tell a smoke sometimes, but if you part their fur, it is white at the roots.
It can take some months to tell if a kitten is a smoke.
It tells a bit about it here http://www.cfainc.org/Breeders/CatColorsGenetics/HintsforDeterminingColor.aspx
The one definitely is Red Tabby. The pattern looks like what is called a broken mackerel tabby pattern. but is sort of borderline between Red Mackerel Tabby and Red Spotted Tabby. and I would want to wait and see how it looks as the kitten gets older. then see photos from the side view of the body.
The other 2 are probably Cream Tabbies. Cream is the dilute of Red. It would make sense they could be Cream since the mum looks like Blue Tortie and White ( which is also called Blue Cream and White ).
(but as Levi68 says, it's barely cream. It's a sort of in-between color. It is a dilute color, and appears to have a rather warm tone,
Another possibility is Cream Smoke. For that to be possible, at least one of the parents must be a silver or smoke ( It can be hard to tell a smoke sometimes, but if you part their fur, it is white at the roots.
It can take some months to tell if a kitten is a smoke.
It tells a bit about it here http://www.cfainc.org/Breeders/CatColorsGenetics/HintsforDeterminingColor.aspx
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- #6
Thanks
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- #7
Thank you,i was told they were lilac, i will post more pictures as they grow older
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- #8
Thanks
Yes! Lilac was my other possibiity, in fact I had written that they might be lilacs. but i now do not see it in the post ! I guess I might have accidentally deleted that paragraph in editing.
The part I wrote about lilac was right after the sentence "It is a dilute color and appears to have a rather warm tone." Then I said that with it looking rather grey , that certainly may be lilac. And that could explain the apparent absence of tabby markings ( which I was not able to tell so well from the photos but now I have heard it from you that you see no tabby markings on those 2. ( though creams can also be very subtle in the tabby pattern, but red-based pigment usually does show tabby markings more. ) .
The only thing is, lilac is less common. It would be EASY for them to be some kind of creams, just based on what I see in the mother and other kitten. We know they can have got Red from the mother, and we know they DID get 2 copies of dilute , since they are obviously dilute. The mother cat also obviously has 2 copies of dilute, which turned her Black into Blue and turned her Red into Cream. The father must not be a dilute ( since one of the kittens is non-dilute), but clearly he carries one copy of it since he gave it to those 2 ktitens .
so for Lilac there is something else they need to inherit. A Lilac coat color is produced by the combination of 2 sets of recessive genes. Lilac is abbreviated bb dd. they have to get 2 d's ( dilute) one from each parent -- . and we know they DO have that.
But they also would have to get 2 "b's" ( brown , also called chocolate) Most cats don't have Chocolate. It is more common in some breeds though. We know the mom does not have 2 copies of b , or else she would be Lilac Tortie instead of Blue Tortie. But we can't tell just from looking at her if she might carry one copy of chocolate, since it is recessive and can be hidden by the dominant Black allele. (upper case B). Cats who are not chocolate or lilac themselves can "carry" one copy of b and still pass it on to a kitten.
Is the sire chocolate ? Or is there anything in the pedigrees of the parents that would give a clue? For example if there is a grandparent who is chocolate or lilac?
Or do you know of any siblings of the parents who were chocolate or lilac? If so , that would at least strengthen the chance. If not, it still does not rule out the possibility that THESE kittens could be lilac, since it could be hidden for many generations by cats until 2 cats carrying "b' are bred together and both give it to one or more kittens.
Anyway, yes I will enjoy seeing more pictures of these lovely kittens as they grow up.
If you really want to be sure whether they are lilac there is a genetic test for whether they carry brown (chocolate) here is a list of veterinary genetic labs. you can check and see if they do cat color tests. http://www.wsava.org/testing-laboratories-dna-based-and-other-genetic-tests
If they have both b/b and d/d , they are lilac.
The part I wrote about lilac was right after the sentence "It is a dilute color and appears to have a rather warm tone." Then I said that with it looking rather grey , that certainly may be lilac. And that could explain the apparent absence of tabby markings ( which I was not able to tell so well from the photos but now I have heard it from you that you see no tabby markings on those 2. ( though creams can also be very subtle in the tabby pattern, but red-based pigment usually does show tabby markings more. ) .
The only thing is, lilac is less common. It would be EASY for them to be some kind of creams, just based on what I see in the mother and other kitten. We know they can have got Red from the mother, and we know they DID get 2 copies of dilute , since they are obviously dilute. The mother cat also obviously has 2 copies of dilute, which turned her Black into Blue and turned her Red into Cream. The father must not be a dilute ( since one of the kittens is non-dilute), but clearly he carries one copy of it since he gave it to those 2 ktitens .
so for Lilac there is something else they need to inherit. A Lilac coat color is produced by the combination of 2 sets of recessive genes. Lilac is abbreviated bb dd. they have to get 2 d's ( dilute) one from each parent -- . and we know they DO have that.
But they also would have to get 2 "b's" ( brown , also called chocolate) Most cats don't have Chocolate. It is more common in some breeds though. We know the mom does not have 2 copies of b , or else she would be Lilac Tortie instead of Blue Tortie. But we can't tell just from looking at her if she might carry one copy of chocolate, since it is recessive and can be hidden by the dominant Black allele. (upper case B). Cats who are not chocolate or lilac themselves can "carry" one copy of b and still pass it on to a kitten.
Is the sire chocolate ? Or is there anything in the pedigrees of the parents that would give a clue? For example if there is a grandparent who is chocolate or lilac?
Or do you know of any siblings of the parents who were chocolate or lilac? If so , that would at least strengthen the chance. If not, it still does not rule out the possibility that THESE kittens could be lilac, since it could be hidden for many generations by cats until 2 cats carrying "b' are bred together and both give it to one or more kittens.
Anyway, yes I will enjoy seeing more pictures of these lovely kittens as they grow up.
If you really want to be sure whether they are lilac there is a genetic test for whether they carry brown (chocolate) here is a list of veterinary genetic labs. you can check and see if they do cat color tests. http://www.wsava.org/testing-laboratories-dna-based-and-other-genetic-tests
If they have both b/b and d/d , they are lilac.
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- #10
Wow! That was really informative and helpful.Thanks a bunch
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- #11
An update of the kittens
Now they're 1 and a half month old
Ktten number 1
Now they're 1 and a half month old
Ktten number 1
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- #12
Number 2
kitten number 3
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- #13
i hope it is much clear now
Kitten number 1
Looks like a red mackerel tabby
Kitten number 2
Erm.... hard to tell looks a different colour with the different lighting in each photo. Maybe cream mackerel tabby ?
Kitten number 3
Hard to tell with the lighting in photos as well. Maybe cream tabby or red silver tabby ?
Sorry i cannot be more help but gorgeous babies
Looks like a red mackerel tabby
Kitten number 2
Erm.... hard to tell looks a different colour with the different lighting in each photo. Maybe cream mackerel tabby ?
Kitten number 3
Hard to tell with the lighting in photos as well. Maybe cream tabby or red silver tabby ?
Sorry i cannot be more help but gorgeous babies
Definitely looks like cream now in those 2 dilute kittens. so I am going to rule out our alternate idea of lilac. ( And THANKS for including mutiple photos because there are a couple that could have been confusing on their own. but some of the photos, there is no way I could imagine a lilac ever looking like that.
I basically would agree with GemsGem. Red, Cream, Cream.
For tabby pattern: The 1st 2 definitely Mackerel Tabby. On the 3rd , your little longhair, I can't see the sides , but if it's in a pattern like the other 2, that's also Mackerel Tabby. ( It can be harder to see the pattern in longer fur so it may not look just alike.)
I'm no longer going to call it Cream Smoke, because now the tabby pattern has become visible. ( Smoke is from the inhibitor gene, same gene as Silver, but with a coat that is NOT showing such a tabby pattern)
But I'm not ruling out Silver .
In a silver tabby the undercoat is WHITE and the other hairs will be white at the roots. In the lighter part of the tabby pattern, the hairs have very whitish bands in them.
If it's silver, it would be "Cream Silver Mackerel Tabby" . (Actually in red based cats it's sometimes called "cameo" instead of "silver" ) so if you use that, Cream Cameo Mackerel Tabby .
Lovely kittens!
I basically would agree with GemsGem. Red, Cream, Cream.
For tabby pattern: The 1st 2 definitely Mackerel Tabby. On the 3rd , your little longhair, I can't see the sides , but if it's in a pattern like the other 2, that's also Mackerel Tabby. ( It can be harder to see the pattern in longer fur so it may not look just alike.)
I'm no longer going to call it Cream Smoke, because now the tabby pattern has become visible. ( Smoke is from the inhibitor gene, same gene as Silver, but with a coat that is NOT showing such a tabby pattern)
But I'm not ruling out Silver .
In a silver tabby the undercoat is WHITE and the other hairs will be white at the roots. In the lighter part of the tabby pattern, the hairs have very whitish bands in them.
If it's silver, it would be "Cream Silver Mackerel Tabby" . (Actually in red based cats it's sometimes called "cameo" instead of "silver" ) so if you use that, Cream Cameo Mackerel Tabby .
Lovely kittens!
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- #16
Thank you Gemsgem and maewkaew i appreciate your responses
Wow those kittens are adorable!! I just got a cat during the summer and I was wondering if anyone could tell me what breed she might be? Sorry if I'm "intruding" on this forum.. I'm on my phone and I can't seem to start a new one.
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- #18
That is one beautiful kitty, im sorry i cant help, i hope maewkaew will be able to help youWow those kittens are adorable!! I just got a cat during the summer and I was wondering if anyone could tell me what breed she might be? Sorry if I'm "intruding" on this forum.. I'm on my phone and I can't seem to start a new one.
I think she is a beautiful blue mackerel tabby domestic semi long hair.
Well i think she is blue it's a little hard to tell from the different lighting in the photo's. In the first photo she definitely looks blue but in the second photo she almost looks brown. But looking at the silver tone to the tail i would think she is a blue.
She has a lovely mackerel pattern the stripes really stand out & she's got huge paws
Well i think she is blue it's a little hard to tell from the different lighting in the photo's. In the first photo she definitely looks blue but in the second photo she almost looks brown. But looking at the silver tone to the tail i would think she is a blue.
She has a lovely mackerel pattern the stripes really stand out & she's got huge paws
