Need Some Food Advice

Quick Intro.  I am Nicole and I have 3 cats(2 are mine one is my daughters).  Oldest is Zen.  He is 3 1/2 yrs old.  Neutered and a house cat.  They all are house cats only.  Pax is 2 and Zeus(daughters cat) is 1.  This morning we had a huge scare.  Zen would not eat.  He is normally a very active and affectionate cat.  Every morning he follows us till he is fed and then it is play with the dogs time(yes he instigates playing with my White Shepherds).  This morning he was following us but meowing in pain.  I picked him up and he screamed.  Got him to a vet and he had a sever blockage of crystals.  I have never dealt with that before so the first thing I did was of coarse google it.  From all I have read so far the best way to ensure this never happens again is to put him on a no dry kibble diet.  We do feed kibble twice a day.  They are all schedule few.  I do supplement with canned food but that is more of a treat.  So it was always the cheapest on the market.  Their dry food was blue wilderness duck variety.  Anyway here is my questions.

1.  How much food should they be getting of canned a day.  They were getting a quarter of a cup of dry kibble twice a day each.  So now I need to figure out how much canned food they should get.

2.  What brands are the best when a cat is on a solely canned cat food diet?  It can't have chicken or beef in it because Pax is allergic to both of those.  Plus if you could give me a few options that are not going to break the bank but are not crappy cheap stuff either that would be awesome.

I am on a dog forum so when I have dog questions I go there.  So I thought since this was a cat issue the best bet was to find some cat fancy people for this.  Thanks in advance for any advice.  Oh and usually people love pictures so here are a few of my crew.

Zen relaxing with our 9yr old White GSD Sheena

http://s66.photobucket.com/user/NicoleLJ_2003/media/100_0007_zpsaa37d64f.jpg.html

Pax walking confidently between Sheena and Daya.  The dogs are well trained to not be food protective

http://s66.photobucket.com/user/NicoleLJ_2003/media/100_0004_zps61bdc186.jpg.html

Zeus my daughters cat

http://s66.photobucket.com/user/NicoleLJ_2003/media/100_0114_zpsbeeb9b87.jpg.html

You will get great advice here from those more knowledgeable than I, but wanted to comment on the "how much canned to feed".

It really pays to know how to read ingredient labels; I had not been looking at calories, however, until I needed to put a little weight on my older cat, a picky fussbudget.

Bottom line: calories range so much with canned food its tough to give you a specific answer.  I think the best approach is to have the numbers:

How many calories does a particular cat need?

Given that number - how many ounces of a particular brand of canned food?

In general, the thicker the pate + less water and non-fish flavor = more calories.

More water + fish flavor = less calories.

If cost is a concern, there are Friskies and Fancy Feast lines that are not that bad and many cats do well on them.

FWIW: I feed my picky eater Nutro Natural Choice Soft Loaf - this was the winner after many tries.  I did use Weruva/Cats in the Kitchen to get her OFF of kibble - they do a lot of fish flavors with lots of broth/water.  But their websites have all kinds of nutritional info on their foods - that is one way I judge a pet food: how transparent are they about what goes in the can?

Good luck!

For canned foods, most adult indoor cats seem to eat about 5.5 - 6 oz a day. If you can feed different flavors and brands, they will have different calories and nutritional profiles but they all average out nicely.

As a general rule, you want high animal protein / moderate fat / low carb foods. Pate style foods fit this profile more so than anything in gravy or sauce. This site written by a vet (www.catinfo.org) has a comparison chart of commonly available wet foods in the US. It also has a great section on urinary tract diseases that you may find helpful.

The least expensive of the okay foods is Friskies pates. If you can find the larger 13 oz cans, the price per oz is really reasonable. However, I think the only non chicken or beef flavors would be fish, and fish should not be fed too often. Fancy Feast pates are also good but per oz is more expensive. The chicken and beef allergies are going to make this search a bit more difficult and more expensive. I would recommend the larger cans of Hound & Gatos and Nature's Variety Instinct. They both offer more novel proteins like lamb, duck, pork, venison, etc.

Interesting timing on your question. I had posted in the health forum about my rescue cat Boo. I had them do a urinalysis because he had a broken pelvis (probably hit by a car) and doesn't drink water (Gah!) So I gave him nothing but canned food for almost 6 weeks and switched him entirely to grain free premium foods to help him heal. I mixed water with it and also some Miralax because his injury and lack of water consumption led to constipation. So I was pretty diligent about tracking the amount of pee balls in the litter as well as his stools.

All seemed good until the last couple of days when he ate 1/2 of his canned food (and so wasn't getting the usual moisture) Then the night before his neuter, I had to take away the food by midnight. I noticed that he squatted but no pee. So...I had the vet check that out in addition to doing the neuter since part of his injury included some temporary nerve damage that prevented him from emptying his bladder completely at first.And while his volume of urine increased, it was still a worry.

From Pet webmd this article talks aobut the disease specifically and the prescription diets that vets may recommend.

http://pets.webmd.com/cats/preventing-feline-lower-urinary-tract-disease

Most cat food manufacturers have reduced the levels of magnesium in their products and added L-methionine, a urinary acidifier. This should provide some protection against FLUTD when it involves struvite crystals or uroliths. Remember that while most dietary information for cats with urinary problems relates to struvite uroliths, many cats suffer from calcium oxalate uroliths and need a different therapy plan.

Anyway, even with careful attention, he formed a bit of crystals. But the vet's office recommended simply a diet that was for urinary tract health and not the strict prescription diet one would give a cat with full out FLUTD. They offered the Hills Presecription C/D health, not one that is specifically to dissolve crystals (The Pet WebMD article talks about the two formulas that dissolve crystals--depending on the type a vet might find). Further they recommended that commercially available canned food that specified urinary health would be good enough.

 Hills Science Diet has an array of prescription canned foods. I did take home a couple of the C/D formula which is a maintenance diet for FLUTD prone cats. It was wetter than pate and Boo gobbled it up. However, I also know that sometimes the prescription formulas aren't super fantastic sources of nutrition. So...I'm not sure whether I should just continue to buy it for a couple of months or if I keep track of the information on the minerals and ash in the food I select, I can keep it controlled.

I looked at the "guaranteed anaylsis" of the C/D

Crude protein 8.5% min, crude fat 3.5% min, crude fiber 1.0% max, moisture 78% max, Calcium min 0.1%, PHOSPHORUS MAX 0.22%, Sodium max 0.12%, MAGNESIUM MAX 0.02%, taurine min 0.06%, omega 3 fatty acids min 0.1%. It doesn't list ash content.

Phosphorus and magnesium and ash can increase the formation of urinary tract crystals.

I also went to the local pet food store that has all the "good for kitty" foods including a huge array of raw foods. They have a sheet on food and supplements that one can use to improve urinary tract health.

Supplements, frankly, make me a bit nervous.  They name the following Animal Essential Tinkle tonic; Herbsmith Bladder Care; Hilton Herbs Ez-Pee (which contains Valerian to reduce stress. Glucosamine and chondroitin which can improve bladder wall health that is supposed to be helpfu for cats with cystitis and blood in urine.

Now, glucosamine and chondroitin I'm familiar with!

And the sheet said that to look for foods with relatively low mineral content
 

My cat, Buddha, has had a history of urinary blockages. It is very distressing! Luckily all three times I caught it before it got fatal. He did finally get the PU surgery but I still take precautions. I now feed all three of my cats wet food.

I wrote this in another thread but it is applicable here:

"When Buddha was 1 year old, he had his first urinary blockage. It was traumatic to both him and I to say the least. I started feeding him the prescription diet (Royal Canin Urinary SO) dry and wet food. Two years later, he had another blockage. Terrifying, but less so because I caught it early. The first time I had no clue what was going on and when I brought him to the vet, she said that if I had waited an hour longer he would've died. This time, I really delved into cat nutrition and only fed him high quality wet food like EVO, BG, Wellness, etc. But then again, he blocked last year. So he got the PU surgery. I now mainly feed him the prescription wet food, Royal Canin Urinary SO, and high quality wet food. I am on pins and needles scared that he'll block again!"

But yes, feed only wet food. I also have three cats. I split a 5.5 oz can between three cats of high quality wet food, mostly Innova or whatever high quality wet food is on sale at the pet store I work at our is low phosphorus, in the morning; then a 3 oz pouch of Wellness Healthy Indulgences Turkey & Duck in the afternoon split between the three; and lastly a 5.8 oz can of Royal Canin Urinary SO between the three of them for dinner. This routine works out for me pretty well and the cats are healthy. Sometimes if they look really hungry and bother me non stop, I'll give in and give them another 3 oz pouch of Wellness but that is rare, maybe once a week.

I read that it is important to find low phosphorus wet foods. There's a chart on catinfo.org for low phosphorus wet foods.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth 

This is the article!

Feline urinary tract health by Lisa Pierson DVM

Thanks for the tip, Molldee

Thanks for all the replies.  I am doing a lot of learning that is for sure. Sorry I have not been back till today.  Been so stressed with Zen at the vet.  Finally today the vet said he is ready to come home and is able to pee on his own again.  Then we get a call from the vet saying he got away from him and is loose in the clinic.  I seriously wonder if we are cursed with the worlds worst luck. The vet thinks he some how got into the ceiling. They have lifted out several panels and can't see him. I am worried he some how got out of the building but the vet assures my husband(who is also there looking for him) that the building is totally sealed. They have been searching for over 2 hours now and have no idea where he is. He has eaten well so if he is frightened it could be days before he comes out of his hiding spot. So now instead of healing vibes we need vibes to find him. Another worry of mine is him actually eating something that could harm him. You know all vets have those displays of food and such out. We always keep our animals food in locked bins because the cats will tear open the bags. Uggg.  Anyway I will check out the links.  Thank you for taking the time to share those and your thoughts.  It is very muchly appreciated.

Oh dear!  FWIW - I've lost my cats in one bedroom apartments that I knew inside and out. Cats are masters at finding places to hide we human would never look.  Crossing fingers they find him soon.

When they find him and bring him home Zen is getting a major lecture from me on how he is not suppose to stress me out like this. Grrr.

Just got back from the vets office. The vet had stayed overnight hoping he would come out when all was dark and quiet. Nope. I feel bad for the vet. They have pushed up tiles all over the ceiling, lifted up ceiling ducts and so on. We went to see if he would come to us even though I was pretty sure he wouldn't. He ate well yesterday before getting loose and he is in a strange place with strange noises and scents. Plus he is feeling very good now. So as soon as we got there I told them the idea I had of getting a cat trap from the SPCA. They had had the same idea but were not sure if Zen would go into it. I explained that we have crates in our house without doors and Zen goes in them regularly to snooze with Sheena and his favorite place to sleep is of course boxes. Anyway we started calling him at one end of the building. Nothing. They Doug went to the other end and call him. He cried back. So I went over there and started calling him. He started crying and crying. But then the noise was too much as they brought the ladder. I climbed up and stuck my head into the ceiling area and called. He responded but left the area as other people were seeing if they could get closer to his spot and the noise scared him. So he is still up there. But his is ok. So they are getting a cat trap. I told them he most likely will need to get hungry and it will most likely be in the evening when he will come down when the place is dark and quiet. It is a plus that he is used to being schedule fed because his tummy will tell him that this is when he is usually fed. So I suggested putting a tiny spot of food(turkey or chicken is his favorite) on the ceiling tile next to the opening where it is safe for him to come down. They will cover the cat trap with a blanket so it is like the ones at home. I left my coat there for them to put in the crate(was a shivery drive home. lol). THey will put that inside with the food at the back. So the crate will have a scent he is familiar with and the food will help draw him in. So hopefully we will hear back tomorrow morning or the next day that he was caught. So keep your fingers crossed. I let the vet know we are not angry just worried. I asked if they wanted us to pay the bill while we were there and they said not to worry about that right now. They assured me there is no way for him to get out of the building. So that and hearing him helped me know that he is alive and at least ok right now. They are awesome people. They were up on ladders, standing on tubs and tables to try and see him. I kept begging them to not hurt themselves trying to get him out and the vet said not to worry because he is insured. LOL I will update more when I know more.

Zen was caught in the trap last night.  YEAH!!!!  So they have him.  They are giving him a going over to make sure he has not got any more crystals or issues from the lack of food and water.  Doug and Nico are having breakfast and then Doug is off to pick Zen up.  We can breathe a sigh of relief now.  Will post a picture of the escape artist later today.  lol

OMG OMG OMG!!! Zen is home. dirty and very hungry. He is chowing down on the canned food right now. I add extra water to it so it is more of a soup and they all seem to love that. Anyway I asked Doug if he paid the bill and he said when he asked the vet if he could make good on the bill the vet told him to not worry about it. That we get the Escaped Kitty Discount. lol. So we don't have to pay ANY of the bill. Nothing. Plus they sent him home with a whole case of prescription canned food. I know they messed up on him getting loose. But people make mistakes. And they have been so apologetic and working so hard to catch him. There is no way we are changing vets over this. So Zen is now healthy, filling his tummy and no worse for the adventure. Will post pictures this afternoon. Thanks for all the support everyone.

So glad to hear he is home safe and sound after his adventures.

He has chowed down at ton and already used the litter box. He must have got his tail caught up there because we noticed they had shaved down a small part of his tail and there is a little scratch. It has obviously been cleaned up. We won't need canned cat food for a while. lol We are giving the prescription canned patte and the canned patte that we bought in the morning with added water. Then in the evening they get the canned shredded turkey or chicken with gravy. So loads of fluids. He has been purring and talking and demanding attention. So Zen is defiantely back. lol

here are 3 pictures of little mister escape artist.

Here you can see where they shaved his front leg for one of the IV's.
http://s66.photobucket.com/user/NicoleLJ_2003/media/100_0074_zpsc09588b3.jpg.html

Here you can see where they shaved his neck for the same thing.
http://s66.photobucket.com/user/NicoleLJ_2003/media/100_0075_zps701ca6ce.jpg.html

Here is the orange escape artist enjoying his canned food.
http://s66.photobucket.com/user/NicoleLJ_2003/media/100_0076_zpsa469e233.jpg.html

So glad none of my 3 are fussy eaters.  None has had a problem with the sudden change to solely wet food.