Home cooked for CRF kitty

I thought Dr. Strombeck had a recipe, but I'm not seeing anything.

The goal? High protein, low phosphorus. Obviously eggshell needs to be the bone alternative....

I know home cooked recipes were posted here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263751/cooked-recipes-thread

mschauer , the beef recipe looks like it fits the bill! Can the same recipe be made with other proteins? And what happens if the heart is removed, because sourcing can be a problem?

Would you mind running it (when you have time) with alternate proteins for the meat and using chicken liver (but keep the beef kidney and no heart) ? Pretty please?

And maybe... just egg whites can be used instead of the whole egg? :dk: (Not sure about the choline component).

And mschauer, do you still have the recipe you ran for.... CatScratch? (Her kitty was Puba. ) That would have been around January/February, earlier this year... I don't have the final version, but it was CRF-friendly.

Thanks Laurie I just created an account and will be looking for suggestions

:bigthumb: I'm sure we'll be able to help!

Here's a link to Dr. Strombeck's renal recipes:

http://dogcathomeprepareddiet.com/diet_and_chronic_renal_disease.html#cat

Laurie, I'll look into your other questions when I get home this evening...

Thanks, I was pretty sure they existed. Let me go take a look. I don't know if they're based on the low protein principle or the low phosphorus principle.

And thanks!

Shoot, they're all low protein.

mschauer, a question for you (you can answer tonight!): When using Dr. Strombecks' renal recipes, would it be safe to substitute eggshell powder for calcium carbonate, based on the knowledge that eggshell powder is 97% calcium carbonate? e.g. if his recipe calls for 600mg of calcium carbonate, can we use 618mg (or 620mg) of eggshell powder?

I wonder if some of the rice could be cut with egg whites to increase the protein while still lowering the phosphorus? Are phosphorus binders a possibility for this kitty?

OK, just as a reference, here are links to the supplements that can be used in Dr. Strombeck's recipes (for those in the U.S. These are all going to be Amazon links).

The multi-vitamin: I'm linking to the Nu-Cat SENIOR supplement, not the regular Nu-Cat supplement. This is not the chewable version, but it is a tablet. The idea is that it is ground up and added to the recipe for the "multi-vitamin mineral" tablet.
Potassium chloride: Enough to last forever. :lol3: (Better than the Morton, which was 6 88oz containers! )
I don't know the best option for the "B complex vitamin-trace mineral" supplement. Hopefully Willow will let us know what she's been using. I use a high potency B-vitamin, but it doesn't have trace minerals in it. The Nu-Cat might cover all the bases though.

For what it's worth, this is the supplement I use (B vitamins, no trace minerals): Do note that Dr. Strombeck's recipe calls for 1/10 of a tablet.... which is a little vague. :lol3:

Here is a 600mg calcium carbonate tablet (most have vitamin D-3 added. This doesn't):
For the recipes that call only for 400mg, you'd just use 2/3 of the tablet.

...looks like you're going to need to buy a pill crusher.

We have both this one:
and this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KL1N3C/?tag=&tag=thecatsite

I like the bigger one a little bit better, it's a little easier to use.

peaches08 said:

I wonder if some of the rice could be cut with egg whites to increase the protein while still lowering the phosphorus? Are phosphorus binders a possibility for this kitty?

Click to expand...

That's a good idea. :nod:

I think mschauer's recipe will work - no rice needed - even replacing some of the meat (maybe 10%) with egg white. Her beef recipe is already low phosphorus - I just don't know if it still works without the heart, or with chicken or turkey as the proteins. It'd be nice to be able to offer a rotation of proteins, I'd think.

Oh - and for recipes using eggshell powder (which is just another form of calcium carbonate, basically), this is the one most use - if you don't make your own. It's easy to make, and one large eggshell is usually about enough to balance one pound of meat. :nod: They're the last item in the e-shop list: http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/shop_online.html

To make them, just rinse them once used. Then either bake them for 20-30 minutes to completely dry them out, or set them in the sun for a few hours. !! You will need a magic-bullet or coffee grinder type thing to powder them into a fine powder (just let whatever you use sit there for 1/2 an hour or so while the dust literally settles. :lol3: ).

peaches08 said:

 Are phosphorus binders a possibility for this kitty?

Click to expand...

Just as an FYI, my Vet doesn't like to use phos binders if at all possible.  She said they can cause a whole new set of issues .  Of course, if there is no other alternative, then that's another story, but I would agree, in preparing food, why put them into homemade food if there is an alternative. 

If heart can't be used (can't source it, etc.) then what about taurine powder?

Just throwing stuff out there in hopes of finding kitty a helpful diet.

mrsgreenjeens said:

Just as an FYI, my Vet doesn't like to use phos binders if at all possible.  She said they can cause a whole new set of issues .  Of course, if there is no other alternative, then that's another story, but I would agree, in preparing food, why put them into homemade food if there is an alternative. 

Click to expand...

Talking about aluminum?

mrsgreenjeens said:

Just as an FYI, my Vet doesn't like to use phos binders if at all possible.  She said they can cause a whole new set of issues .  Of course, if there is no other alternative, then that's another story, but I would agree, in preparing food, why put them into homemade food if there is an alternative. 

Click to expand...

Sally, I'm a little confused. You mean it's better to feed homemade and design it right than use phos binders, right?

peaches08 said:

 

mrsgreenjeens said:

Just as an FYI, my Vet doesn't like to use phos binders if at all possible.  She said they can cause a whole new set of issues

.  Of course, if there is no other alternative, then that's another story, but I would agree, in preparing food, why put them into homemade food if there is an alternative. 

Click to expand...

Talking about aluminum?

Click to expand...

ANY type of phos binder that you must add to their food to reduce the phosphorus.  since I've never actually used them, I don't know for sure, but I know aluminum is one of them. 

LDG said:

 

mrsgreenjeens said:

Just as an FYI, my Vet doesn't like to use phos binders if at all possible.  She said they can cause a whole new set of issues

.  Of course, if there is no other alternative, then that's another story, but I would agree, in preparing food, why put them into homemade food if there is an alternative. 

Click to expand...

Sally, I'm a little confused. You mean it's better to feed homemade and design it right than use phos binders, right?

Click to expand...

Exactly! 

Here are the recipe analyses I did for Puba with different amounts of rice. As you can tell from the titles they are Dr. Pitcairns recipes.

1 cup of cooked rice is about 158 g.

The original:


With less rice:


And with no rice:

What phosphorus amount are we shooting for?  The phosphorus in the beef recipe Laurie mentioned is quite a bit higher than that in Dr. Pitcairns recipes.

I'll have to go look it up. But I really wasn't aware that that the renal recipes provide LESS than the AAFCO recommended amount of phosphorus.

OK. From Tanya's CRF pages, the goal is 0.5% DMB.

http://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm#control_diet