kidney disease / food

gatti · Oct 20, 2013

Hi, have been informed my cat has kidney disease. I have done so much research on cat foods lately because of this news, i understand its the early stages? (hate myself for not realising that general pet food bad!) i found naturesmenu.co.uk and opted for the cooked one (not raw) I told my vet about this who says too much protein is bad for kidneys. (it contains 71% real meat) 10% protein - is this bad?? Should i stop feeding him this? I have just started him on it . Vet only recommends hills kd diet (but forums tell me this is not packed with good stuff) i am so confused and upset that i dont know what to choose, i want to slow down/halt the kidney disease so im desparate to act now. Please, please would you help me choose the right food for him as i dont know what to do.
Also i am told he has liver stones? and that these will keep growing and nothing i can do to help it (really!? Would the right foods not help at all!?) ;-( hes 9 & a half and a happy little thing, i want to act now so that hes around for many years yet! x

vball91 · Oct 21, 2013

I am so sorry to hear that your cat has been diagnosed with kidney disease. My research also suggests that high quality protein is more important in the early stages of kidney disease. Low protein is sort of old school thinking. It is important to feed a low phosphorus diet. Egg whites are a good source of protein/low phosphorus.

This is the most comprehensive site on all things related to feline kidney disease. http://www.felinecrf.org/ You can also join this group for more individualized help.

This chart http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPhosphorus9-22-12.pdf also provides phosphorus content in ascending order. I'm not sure how many of the foods are available in the UK, but it's worth a look to see if you can find some of them.

I'm not quite sure what your vet means by liver stones. Here's an article on common diseases of the liver in cats. http://www.merckmanuals.com/petheal...ers_of_the_liver_and_gallbladder_in_cats.html To some extent the liver is capable of healing itself. There are liver supplements that you can try.

gatti · Oct 21, 2013

Dear Vball, thank you very much for your message and links x

gatti · Oct 21, 2013

i found out the food i found contains 0.26% phosphorus, is that considered low?

lcat4 · Oct 21, 2013

Often the phosphorus level provided is "As Fed" (including moisture) as opposed to Dry Matter Basis. The number you want is DMB. Then you can better compare phosphorus levels of the food options.

Here is a link that I have referenced for my two cats' diet: http://www.animalendocrine.com/wp-c...-Hyperthyroidism-Concurrent-Renal-Disease.pdf

I know that Dr. Peterson is basing his recommendations on the Hyper-T cat with CRF, but it applies to the non Hyper-T cat as well. I have two cats in stage 3. I feed them a homemade diet, no carbs, at about 70% protein. As they are progressing in the stages, I am starting to add a little more fat, which lowers the overall protein and phosphorus ratios. One of my cats has high blood potassium, so I'm altering his diet to accommodate that need. I use eggshell as their calcium source, which lowers the phosphorus level (over bone). This doesn't mean that you have to provide a homemade diet. There are good canned options. But use the catinfo site like vball91 suggests and tanya's site as well to find the best food for your cat.

I wish you and your cat the best!

mrsgreenjeens · Oct 21, 2013

I also have a cat in the early stages of kidney disease

. And I have had a cat already pass away from this daunting disease

. But caught in the early stages, diet can have a good effect on his numbers

I just looked up what you are feeding him, and IMHO, it looks like a very good food, and the phosphorus level is good. I think you could add a little more fat if you wanted too, by perhaps cooking up some chicken or beef and just adding in the drippings, or even adding in some unsalted butter or even vegetable oil (that last item is what my Vet recommended I add, but having fed raw, it went against the grain

)

What you want to make sure too, is that she gets plenty of water. I add extra water to my little ones food now...quite a bit of it.

I know your Vet said he thought this food was too high in protein, but the new way of thinking hasn't filtered it's way down thru the ranks yet. My Vet just recently went to a seminar where this very topic was discussed, and she said (finally), that higher protein is now making a lot of sense

. So many kidney cats are skin and bones, and the reason is probably because they are fed such low protein diets. Is your cat eating well? Hopefully he still has a good appetite

gatti · Oct 22, 2013

LCat4 said:
Often the phosphorus level provided is "As Fed" (including moisture) as opposed to Dry Matter Basis. The number you want is DMB. Then you can better compare phosphorus levels of the food options.

Here is a link that I have referenced for my two cats' diet: http://www.animalendocrine.com/wp-c...-Hyperthyroidism-Concurrent-Renal-Disease.pdf

I know that Dr. Peterson is basing his recommendations on the Hyper-T cat with CRF, but it applies to the non Hyper-T cat as well. I have two cats in stage 3. I feed them a homemade diet, no carbs, at about 70% protein. As they are progressing in the stages, I am starting to add a little more fat, which lowers the overall protein and phosphorus ratios. One of my cats has high blood potassium, so I'm altering his diet to accommodate that need. I use eggshell as their calcium source, which lowers the phosphorus level (over bone). This doesn't mean that you have to provide a homemade diet. There are good canned options. But use the catinfo site like vball91 suggests and tanya's site as well to find the best food for your cat.

I wish you and your cat the best!

gatti · Oct 22, 2013

Oops im still gettingvhe hang of replying to a post (somehow i quoted your message!?)
thankbyou lcat4 for your message this is all very helpful :-)

gatti · Oct 22, 2013

mrsgreenjeens said:
I also have a cat in the early stages of kidney disease

. And I have had a cat already pass away from this daunting disease

. But caught in the early stages, diet can have a good effect on his numbers I just looked up what you are feeding him, and IMHO, it looks like a very good food, and the phosphorus level is good. I think you could add a little more fat if you wanted too, by perhaps cooking up some chicken or beef and just adding in the drippings, or even adding in some unsalted butter or even vegetable oil (that last item is what my Vet recommended I add, but having fed raw, it went against the grain )

What you want to make sure too, is that she gets plenty of water. I add extra water to my little ones food now...quite a bit of it.

I know your Vet said he thought this food was too high in protein, but the new way of thinking hasn't filtered it's way down thru the ranks yet. My Vet just recently went to a seminar where this very topic was discussed, and she said (finally), that higher protein is now making a lot of sense . So many kidney cats are skin and bones, and the reason is probably because they are fed such low protein diets. Is your cat eating well? Hopefully he still has a good appetite

gatti · Oct 22, 2013

Thankyou greenjeens! Its such a relief to know this food is good and the phos levels, thankyou for your message. Yes he is eating fine thank god, i am so worried about him though as he recently (few days ago) his back legs give way ;-( i have orthopedic appointment for him in november though am trying to get one sooner. He has feline dwarfism (dont know how or why) started to see symptoms as he grew. I am so scared for him as the vets xrayed him and couldnt tell me why his back legs go off balance etc. Hence why we are meeting with a specialist. His kidneys i have to look after also, i so pray he lives well for a few years yet, its so so worrying ;-( x

gatti · Oct 22, 2013

P.s sounds amazing how you have your cats food planned so well. I cant believe i have been feeding my cats standard cat food all these years and have probably hurt them because of this! I hope all your cats are ok, and the same goes for all of us on these posts (thankyou all for replying) itd be so great to read animals minds, i just so hope i make the right decisions for them both, im so scared of making the wrong one. I know im going on here, but this is all happening at the moment and so its all im thinking about (i try not to be like this around him obviously as i dont want to stress him) hopefully he will be okay xx and my other cat who has a recently increased appetite and always wants food lately?...xx

mrsgreenjeens · Oct 22, 2013

gatti said:
P.s sounds amazing how you have your cats food planned so well. I cant believe i have been feeding my cats standard cat food all these years and have probably hurt them because of this! I hope all your cats are ok, and the same goes for all of us on these posts (thankyou all for replying) itd be so great to read animals minds, i just so hope i make the right decisions for them both, im so scared of making the wrong one. I know im going on here, but this is all happening at the moment and so its all im thinking about (i try not to be like this around him obviously as i dont want to stress him) hopefully he will be okay xx and my other cat who has a recently increased appetite and always wants food lately?...xx

You can only do what you think is right...there really is no absolute right or wrong. Many of us (myself included) probably fed an undesireable food until we finally learned better. With me, it was after my last cat was diagnosed with kidney disease and I started doing research. Sadly, by then it was probably already too late for Callie, who is now paying the price, even though I converted her to a raw diet 1 1/2 years ago, but only after she had been on dry food for 12 years

Even Vets tell us dry food is good, so how are we to know

. And, honestly, some cats feed a high quality canned food their entire lives have been known to get kidney disease, so I think some cats are going to get it no matter what.

If it helps ease your mind at all, my dear Sven lived an additional 3 years after being diagnosed, and we didn't even change his diet until a year before he died. However, he was 12 when he was diagnosed.

You other cat with the increased appetite, is he eating the new food as well? Maybe he just really likes it? Or maybe he's a stress eater? I have one who eats when stressed, and it could be he is picking up on your stress and therefore just eating more. But, if in doubt, the you should probably have him checked out.

dan32 · Oct 22, 2013

I've had four cats succumb to kidney disease, all in their late teens. At the beginning, feeding them more canned food and less kibble is a good switch. There was also some powdered additive of electrolytes I would mix in with the water dish that perked them up before sub-Q fluids were required. You will have to start getting regular bloodworks done every few months to monitor urea levels as well as mineral imbalances. Ask your vet for copies of the bloodworks to have at home.

A common mineral imbalance is low potassium/high phosphorus, thus the focus on low phosphorus foods. Both potassium and phorphorus are shown on the bloodwork. A low potassium level will give them weakness in the back legs - in severe cases they sometimes give potassium supplements. There are also phosphorus binders (a powder) that can be mixed into any favorite canned food to "blot up" phosphorus, thereby making any canned food low phosphorus. But by the time you are up to mineral imbalances, you may also be up to consider administering sub-Q fluids at home which is a science in itself. By then, you become a full-duty nurse.

The initial step to figuring out where you are at is having the bloodworks done and getting copies of the results to study how bad it is. And read http://www.felinecrf.org/ from front to back - it is the bible on chronic kidney failure.

gatti · Oct 23, 2013

Thankyou for all your advice, i will definitely look into all your links and advice.
Its just so confusing as some people tell me hills kd has kept their cat alive for years and i have no reviews of the natural food i found that i thought sounded healthier? Im comparing phosphorus levels etc but im no expert :-(
Please would see these levels in the kd: http://www.hillspet.co.uk/en-gb/products/pd-feline-prescription-diet-kd-with-chicken-pouch.html
Or:
http://www.naturesmenu.co.uk/product-chicken--turkey-cat-pouches.aspx
I dont know what one to go for? Would both be ok? Should i ask the vet (i already know they will say kd but are all the ingredients good in it!?)
I will def ask the vet tonight about the low potassium if this could be a cause in his back legs, i am seeing a senior vet tonight as the other couldnt tell me much at all about his xray and why his legs are like that! ;-(
Still going to orthopedic specialist in november too though

gatti · Oct 23, 2013

I think i may have to switch to Hills KD then if it means he will live longer?? im scared Natures menu might not help as much? though im informed phosphorus levels are 0.26% and hills KD chicken pouch is
Phosphorus (as fed 0.1 %) (dry matter 0.43 %)
but the meat content in natures menu 71% and the meat content in hills KD is 24%......
I wonder if i fed both? Should i just go with what the vet says? I truly do not want to make the wrong decision. Its sooo confusing to know what to do :-(

Willowy · Oct 23, 2013

IF you decide on the k/d, use only the canned kind. Kibble is the worst thing for kidney disease, and I don't care if they say it's made for kidney disease. . .eating dry anything will just make the kidneys worse.

dan32 · Oct 23, 2013

Specialized CKD cat foods are only as good as the cat's willingness to eat it. My last senior actually liked Science Diet K/D canned food, but he would get tired of it. Why not ask the vet for one or two cans or pouches of each one and see what sells? Getting as much moisture into the diet with ANY canned food or drinks is imperative.

And do get copies of those bloodworks. You can compare the numbers to info on Tanya's CRF or post them here.

If they are aleady doing very poorly, learning to give sub-Q fluids is the cure to make them perk up more than any dietary changes you can make. The sub-Q fluids (Ringer's solution) is what you get in the hospital as an IV drip - it is pre-balanced with the correct minerals. Your vet can give an initial hydration and give you a little class on how to do it yourself. It is sort of the backbone of kidney disease therapy.

gatti · Nov 4, 2013

Please would someone look at the ingredients below, do you think this sounds good? Its for my cat with Kidney disease, who also has bladder stones.

Composition:
Chicken (min 43%), Turkey (min 28%), Minerals.
Analytical Constituents:
Protein (10%), Crude Oils & Fats (6.5%), Crude Ash (2.5%), Crude Fibres (0.4%), Moisture (79%).
Additives (per kg):
Taurine (200mg/kg), Vitamin A (2.000iu/kg), Vitamin D3 (320iu/kg), Vitamin E (30mg/kg).
Trace Elements: Potassium iodide (0.2mg/kg), Manganese oxide (2.1mg/kg), Zinc sulphate monohydrate (10mg/kg), Zinc sulphate monohydrate (10mg/kg).

Is there any ingredient i should avoid / add to help with bladder stones? If so are their recommended levels?

Is there any ingredient i should avoid / add to help with Kidney disease? if so the levels also?

for example, are the values below of 10% protein too low?

the phosphorus levels are approximate 0.26%, though the word approximate concerns me (does this mean it could be much higher!?) If so i need to look for another food.

Does anyone please know of a food that is the lowest in phosphorus levels that they have come across? Would this also help with bladder stones?

Im in the UK, so some foods ive read people mention i can't get hold of easily here in the UK

Again, thank you very,very much, I look forward to your comments

binkybruce · Nov 5, 2013

HI, I just joined your site because my kitty is doing very poorly from this disease :-(

So I joined to ask you guys questions and since I couldn't get the hang of starting a thread, I in the mean time had a vet come to the house (for a second opinion) to help me determine if I was being cruel in keeping my little girl alive and not putting her down. Not that she's young - she's 16 but the disease just took a hold of her so fast! Anyway (between tears) the doctor said that she didn't really look that bad - even though she stopped eating yesterday - won't even take my chicken soup anymore! He gave her the fluids under the skin along with B vitamins and some other thing that Lance Armstrong the Olympic bicyclist took (yes doping). So it's been three hours now and I'm waiting, and waiting and waiting for my little kitty to show me some signs of feeling better. Like an appetite would be great! The vet told me to give her Gerber baby food - beef or chicken. So I've got that waiting for her. I did one home made meal with fresh liver and rice and eggs (hard boiled eggs??) and calcium carbonate and I was told (by the first doctor) that they have to have Taurine - but I wasn't told how much. Anyway - she wouldn't touch the stuff I made her. Then I read another site that more protein is better than less protein and what's a Mom to do?????

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for your thread - there sure is a lot to learn.

Good luck to all your kitties out there - they are so blessed that we love them so much!

binkybruce · Nov 5, 2013

Hi Gatti, I think I know what you're going through. This is such a hard time. I've tried six different low protein canned foods. I've tried the Royal Canine Renal formular (from Doctor #1)(Lucy hated it!). I've tried my chicken broth, another home made recipe with liver. We've given her broiled chicken pieces (little tiny strips dipped in water) salmon, steak. We've been trying anything to get her to eat. She drinks water but no appetite, so we had Vet #2 come over today and he gave her some subquetaneous fluids and I'm waiting to see what that does. Oh and the doc 2 said baby food - so I'll try that in an hour. Wish us luck . . . .

kidney disease / food

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

Every Life Should Have Nine Cats

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

Thread starter

Every Life Should Have Nine Cats

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member