Ethics of Spay and Neuter

thevegancuddler

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I was discussing, the other day, the ethics of spaying and neutering cats and dogs. I know it's a given that we do this, and that we understand the overall net outcome to be a good thing. As a vegan, I'm concerned about granting as much autonomy to animals as possible, but at the same time, I recognize the need to control the population, since we have so many dogs and cats without homes. That's where we usually end the discussion, I feel.

But she brought up a few interesting points, and I was curious to hear whether or not you all had heard any of this before. She's definitely the science-y type, and has undoubtedly been reading journals and what not, and I'm... not that type. So what I'm providing is info summarized for a layman. Excuse the generalities, offered as I understand them. =P

According to her (and I don't know if this is true), some vets are refusing to perform a spay at all now, as it is deemed cruel. You're essentially performing major surgery to remove the reproductive organs. A neuter is less invasive. But in both cases, it messes with the hormone balance of the animals, essentially rendering them children for life. Some dogs, she said, even become depressed post-neutering, because they still have some memory of engaging in sexual activity (had they engaged in it before), and therefore a vague drive... but at the same time, no drive at all, because the hormones that drive sex are dead and gone. She notes that recovery from such major surgery can be flawed, and that the surgery itself and the new imbalance of hormones hurts the immune system.

There are also, she suggests, an increased risk of certain kinds of cancers. In dogs, at least, there is reportedly a 75% increased risk of the development of osteosarcoma. Colon cancer is at an increased risk. And while removal of the testicles eliminates testicular cancer, an emergency neuter can also be performed in the event of the development of testicular cancer, and recovery rates at this point are good.

Most of her information is based on findings in dogs (she's a dog person), but there are comparable findings in cats, apparently. I'm sure I could dig up sources from her if you guys want.

I did personally notice that Sophie became weirdly aggressive after her spay. She was always a little bratty, but it was like a flip was switched after that. She was EXTREMELY aggressive at vets, where she never had been before. And she still is.

Now, I'm not sure how much any of this is certain. But I'm wondering if you guys have heard anything about it. If it were true that spay and neuter are more bad than good, I guess we'd be faced with a number of dilemmas. Obviously it makes it harder to give a home to multiple animals, because you can't have unwanted litters everywhere. One solution would be to neuter all the males, and leave all the females unaltered. Or you could simply adopt animals that have already been fixed.

Any thoughts? I'm curious to hear what others might have to say, especially in light of my recent readings regarding the ethics of vaccinations.
 

ldg

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Luckily, thus far, research has shown that our feline companions don’t have the same negative long-term physiologic consequences associated with desexing that plague our canine population. We may identify potential links in the future, but thus far, it appears our canine companions are more negatively affected by spaying or neutering.
Dr. Karen Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/30/neutering-health-risks.aspx

The issues have nothing to do with cruelty or "sex memory." It's related to health, particularly as it relates to endocrine disorders in dogs. The same is true of ferrets.
 

ldg

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I am aware of a recently published mathematical exercise that postulates that TNR colonies will decline in population size more rapidly if males have a vasectomy vs being neutered, but I can't see that being a practical solution. One of the benefits of TNR as practiced is that the negative behavior of males is stopped. And the lack of mating and territorial fighting reduces the spread of FIV and FeLV.
 
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thevegancuddler

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I am aware of a recently published mathematical exercise that postulates that TNR colonies will decline in population size more rapidly if males have a vasectomy vs being neutered, but I can't see that being a practical solution. One of the benefits of TNR as practiced is that the negative behavior of males is stopped. And the lack of mating and territorial fighting reduces the spread of FIV and FeLV.
Excellent point. I think, though, that it may be that there are different solutions for different situations. Were it found that spay/neuter in cat populations had significant physical/mental/emotional detriments, it might still be necessary in some situations. As you say, ferals in a colony would probably still fair better if they're fixed, because it's difficult for a female to carry on endless pregnancy after pregnancy, and for males to fight and spread disease over females.

That said, how we treat our animals in the home (indoor only cats, specifically), might be worth some consideration. In that environment, it might be feasible to only neuter the males, for example. I don't know.
 

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I'm a vegan as well for humane reasons and I get the logic behind wanting an animal to be as left alone as possible.

However, first of all these are domestic animals (cats semi domestic) so we are already interfering with their natural wild state by breeding them and raising them to be dependent on us. Secondly, we aren't talking about battery raised chickens, or pigs being strapped down, force fed, and pumped full of hormones. These are animals that we keep near us because we give and receive love from them. 

Desexing is being done for the individual animal and for the species. We can't guarantee our animals, even with our best intentions, are always going to be kept away from others. Sadly, sometimes they get lost. Having them desexed insures less aggressive behavior and keeps the over population to a minimum.

I concentrate on giving my guys the best possible life to my ability, and know that having them neutered was for the greater good.
 
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thevegancuddler

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However, first of all these are domestic animals (cats semi domestic) so we are already interfering with their natural wild state by breeding them and raising them to be dependent on us. Secondly, we aren't talking about battery raised chickens, or pigs being strapped down, force fed, and pumped full of hormones. These are animals that we keep near us because we give and receive love from them. 

Desexing is being done for the individual animal and for the species. We can't guarantee our animals, even with our best intentions, are always going to be kept away from others. Sadly, sometimes they get lost. Having them desexed insures less aggressive behavior and keeps the over population to a minimum.

I concentrate on giving my guys the best possible life to my ability, and know that having them neutered was for the greater good.
I recognize that there's a difference between domesticated animals and battery animals, and I certainly wouldn't want to suggest that anyone spaying/neutering their animal friends is being carelessly cruel. I only want to suggest that as new evidence becomes available, we might have to reconsider past positions.

I guess one question to ask would be whether or not protecting against an unwanted pregnancy in the event of a lost dog/dog who gets out by accident is a priority when weighted against the potential harmful side effects of a spay/neuter. I'm not sure I would fix a dog, given the chance to do over. There are too many health-related concerns. I need to do more research on the cat side of things to determine what I would do in that scenario.

In terms of aggressive behavior, couldn't that be worked on in the same way we work on eliminating other undesirable behaviors in animals? We train our cats  not to scratch furniture and our puppies not to pee on rugs, etc. Are "behavioral issues" a reason to alter an animal, assuming other methods of training haven't been tried first?
 

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In terms of aggressive behavior, couldn't that be worked on in the same way we work on eliminating other undesirable behaviors in animals? We train our cats  not to scratch furniture and our puppies not to pee on rugs, etc. Are "behavioral issues" a reason to alter an animal, assuming other methods of training haven't been tried first?
I'm not sure I understand the question?

Aren't pets desexed primarily for preventing unwanted pregnancies?

With pet dogs, I believe it's possible the risks of desexing as it relates to long term health are worth re-considering not having them spayed/neutered, or at least not until they're older. I believe that with ferrets, the guidance is to wait until they're at least a year old to have them spayed/neutered.

As to cats... I'm not sure that hormone-driven territorial aggression and marking can be "trained out." It certainly can't with ferals in TNR colonies. Even if it turns out there are long term health risks in cats, I believe the problem with aggressive behavior and territory marking outweigh long term health considerations in feral cats. The alternative - in most communities - is trap-and-kill.

I'd have to think looooooooong and hard about pet cats. Having worked in rescue and TNRing cats for over a decade now, I just can't imagine that not having cats spayed/neutered benefits cats. Yes, that individual cat's health IF.... but at what point do we consider the creation of more homeless cats to be cruel?
 
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thevegancuddler

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Aren't pets desexed primarily for preventing unwanted pregnancies?
Yes, but if you have all female cats in your house, for example, then is it really still a question of unwanted pregnancies? If they're all indoor, they shouldn't meet male cats. And while it's true they could get out by accident, the odds are pretty low. So if you know you can be careful and you know your cats won't meet unaltered members of the opposite sex... that might be something worth discussing. The evidence that these alteration-related diseases impact dogs more than cats is there, but it does make me wonder what goes on in a cat's body post-neuter/spay that we might not know about yet - just as we didn't know neutering/spaying a dog might be harmful a few years ago.
As to cats... I'm not sure that hormone-driven territorial aggression and marking can be "trained out." It certainly can't with ferals in TNR colonies. Even if it turns out there are long term health risks in cats, I believe the problem with aggressive behavior and territory marking outweigh long term health considerations in feral cats. The alternative - in most communities - is trap-and-kill.
I agree with the point on ferals/TNR colonies. Ultimately, not going through the trauma of pregnancy after pregnancy, and not fighting over mating rights, is probably better for their health in the long run.
 

rainbo

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For me with dogs, I've never researched it in cats, the benefits of spaying a female outweigh the negatives. Spaying eliminates the risk of pyometra (infection in the uterus) which is a life threatening emergency. It greatly reduces the chances of mammary cancer which can also be life threatening. The dog will not be trying to escape in order to breed, not having to deal with false pregnancies, and won't turn into a witch because she's in heat.

With male dogs the health benefits are not that great unless the dog has an undescended testicle, so I can see leaving them intact if the owner is up to preventing them from escaping and playing the neighborhood Casanova.

Another thing to consider is that at least some of the problems associated with spaying and neutering can be eliminated if the owner waits until the dog reaches sexual maturity to alter them.

I'll always spay a female, I've no interest in breeding and do not wish to take the risk of contributing to the overpopulation of dogs and cats in the off chance the female escapes while in season. Males I'll probably always have neutered, since with my luck I'd get the dog that will bust through fences and windows to get to a female in heat, although I may take it on a case by case basis. Unless I'm forced to spay or neuter early (adopting from a shelter) I will wait until the animal is mature to alter him/her.
 

ldg

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Rainbo, I don't think you've read the summary of the research. I'll go ahead and post it, instead of the earlier link.

Health Issues Linked to Spaying and Neutering Dogs

Before I discuss some of the health issues now associated with desexing dogs, first let me point out that there are two medical conditions that actually can be totally eliminated by desexing: benign prostatic hypertrophy or BPH (enlarged prostate), and pyometra (a disease of the uterus). However, a wealth of information is mounting that preserving innate sex hormones, especially in the first years of life, may be beneficial to pets, whereas the risk of pyometra or BPH in an animal’s first year of life is incredibly low.

Recent research has also discredited a couple of myths about the supposed benefits of early spays and neuters, including:

A study from the U.K. suggests there isn’t much scientific evidence at all to support the idea that early spaying of female dogs decreases or eliminates future risk of mammary tumors or breast cancer. This has been a much promoted supposed benefit of early spays for decades. But as it turns out, it’s based on theory rather than scientific evidence.
Similar to the situation with early spaying and mammary tumors, there’s a common belief that neutering a male dog prevents prostate cancer. However, a small study conducted at Michigan State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine suggests that neutering – no matter the age – has no effect on the development of prostate cancer.

And now for some of the disorders and diseases linked to spaying/neutering:

Shortened lifespan. A study conducted and published in 2009 by the Gerald P. Murphy Cancer Foundation established a link between the age at which female Rottweilers are spayed and how long they live. Researchers compared long-lived Rotties that lived for 13 years or more with those who lived a normal lifespan of about 9 years. They discovered that while females live longer than males, removing the ovaries of female Rottweilers before five years of age evened the score. Females who kept their ovaries until at least 6 years of age were four times more likely to reach an exceptional age compared to Rotties who were spayed at a younger age.

I spayed my rescued Rottie, Isabelle, when I adopted her at seven years of age. She lived to be 17, and she was still unbelievably vibrant at 17. She slipped on the floor in a freak accident and became paralyzed, which ultimately led to her euthanasia. But she was the oldest and healthiest Rottweiler I have ever met.

With Isabelle, I provided literally no medical care because she didn’t need it. Her body naturally thrived throughout her life. I fed her a balanced raw diet. I checked her bloodwork every six months, which was perfect until the day she died. Isabelle was a great example of a thriving pet that lived above the level of disease. I believe her sex hormones greatly contributed to her longevity and her abundantly healthy life.

Atypical Cushing’s disease. It’s my professional opinion that early spaying and neutering plays a role in the development of atypical Cushing's disease as well. Typical Cushing’s means the middle layer of the adrenal gland is over-secreting cortisol. Atypical Cushing’s involves the outer and innermost layers of the adrenal glands and occurs when other types of hormones are over-produced, usually estrogen and progesterone.

When a dog is spayed or neutered before puberty, the endocrine, glandular and hormonal systems have not yet fully developed. A complete removal of the gonads, resulting in stopping production of all the body’s sex hormones (which is what happens during castration or the traditional spay), can force the adrenal glands to produce sex hormones because they’re the only remaining tissue in the body that can secrete them.

Over time, the adrenal glands become taxed from doing their own work plus the work of the missing gonads. It’s very difficult for these tiny little glands to keep up with the body’s demand for sex hormones. This is the condition of atypical Cushing’s. Hormone disruption is a central feature in Cushing’s disease. Any substance or procedure that affects the body’s hormonal balance should be absolutely evaluated as a potential root cause.

Cardiac tumors. A Veterinary Medical Database search of the years 1982 to 1985 revealed that in dogs with tumors of the heart, the relative risk for spayed females was over four times that of intact females. For the most common type of cardiac tumor, hemangiosarcoma, spayed females had a greater than five times risk vs. their intact counterparts. Neutered males had a slightly higher risk than intact males as well.

Bone cancer. In another Rottweiler study published 10 years ago for both males and females spayed or neutered before one year of age, there was a one in four lifetime risk of developing bone cancer. Desexed Rotties were significantly more likely to acquire the disease than intact dogs. In another study using the Veterinary Medical Database for 1980 to 1984, the risk of bone cancer in large-breed, purebred dogs increased two-fold for those dogs that were also desexed.

Abnormal bone growth and development. Studies done in the 1990s concluded dogs spayed or neutered under one year of age grew significantly taller than non-sterilized dogs or those dogs spayed or neutered after puberty. The earlier the spay or neuter procedure, the taller the dog. Research published in 2000 may explain why: it appears that the removal of estrogen-producing organs in immature dogs – both females and males – can cause growth plates to remain open. These animals continue to grow and wind up with abnormal growth patterns and bone structure. This results in irregular body proportions, possible cartilage issues, and joint conformation issues.

Higher rate of CCL ruptures. A study conducted at Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center on cranial cruciate ligament injuries concluded that spayed and neutered dogs had a significantly higher incidence of rupture than their intact counterparts. While large-breed dogs had more CCL injuries, sterilized or desexed dogs of all breeds and sizes had an increased rupture rate.

Hip dysplasia. In a retrospective cohort study conducted at Cornell University’s College of Veterinary Medicine, results showed that both male and female dogs sterilized at an early age were more prone to hip dysplasia.

Breed-specific effects of spay/neuter. A recent study conducted at the University of California Davis involving several hundred Golden Retrievers revealed that for the incidence of hip dysplasia, CCL tears, lymphosarcoma, hemangiosarcoma, and mast cell tumors, the rates were significantly higher in both males and females that were neutered or spayed compared with intact dogs.

Other health concerns. Early spaying or neutering is commonly associated with urinary incontinence in female dogs and has been linked to increased incidence of urethral sphincter incontinence in males.

Spayed or neutered Golden Retrievers are much more likely to develop hypothyroidism.

A cohort study of shelter dogs conducted by the College of Veterinary Medicine at Texas A&M University concluded that infectious diseases were more common in dogs that were spayed and neutered at under 24 weeks of age.

The AKC’s Canine Health Foundation issued a report pointing to higher incidence of adverse reactions to vaccines in spayed and neutered dogs as well.

Among the reports and studies pointing to health concerns associated with early spaying and neutering, we also find mention of increased incidence of behavior problems, including noise phobias, fear behavior, aggression, and undesirable sexual behaviors.
Again, it's from this link, a blog post by Dr. Karen Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/30/neutering-health-risks.aspx
 
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Willowy

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I've done a lot of research into it. Basically, with dogs, in the future (if I have a choice), I'll have males vasectomized, or at least neuter after age 2. Or leave intact entirely if he's not an escape artist. The health issues are seen most often in males neutered young.

For female dogs it's kind of different, IMO. How much time/money/effort do you put into making sure your female organs don't kill you? ;) Probably a lot, like most women. Dogs can't tell us how they feel so early signs of something wrong may go unnoticed. Unspayed females over a certain age have an extremely high chance of pyometra, and mammary cancer is pretty common as well. I don't think I would be comfortable leaving a female intact for very long. I will probably allow any future female dogs to have one or two heats before spaying, but I will spay. There is also ovary-sparing spay (removes uterus only) and that would prevent pyometra, but the mammary cancer risk is still high.

BUT. . .in my experience, intact cats who are not allowed to mate are MISERABLE. I will never keep a cat intact.
 
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ldg

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BUT. . .in my experience, intact cats who are not allowed to mate are MISERABLE. I will never keep a cat intact.
I've never had an intact cat. In 11 years, the longest we've even had an intact male in the colony is now - we're going on 10 months without having trapped "Tommy." Need to build a drop trap. But he keeps showing up here with the most horrendous wounds. They keep healing, but...
 

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Shelters euthanizing cats and dogs in gas chambers by the hundreds of thousands on a yearly basis is far more cruel and unnatural. Despite the best efforts of rescue organizations, this is not going to change any time soon. We already have an overpopulation of dogs and cats and we should do whatever we can to prevent adding to it.

I would argue that a pet becoming aggressive after surgery might have more to do with the stress and possible loss of trust that can be involved in a vet visit, not necessarily due to the surgery itself. It is far more common for the pet to become docile after losing hormone production. So the aggression would be behavioral rather than physiological.

I would also look at the happiness and quality of life of the pet. An unsterilized animal's primary goal will br to reproduce. How miserable would they be kept inside and guarded all their life and denied the ability to act on their natural instinct? On the other hand, it would be terribly irresponsible to allow unfixed pets to roam and procreate at will. Once you decide to have a pet, you have already decided to alter their natural behavior.

If we were not already neck deep in an over population crisis, the arguments against sterilization might have more merit. It hits me as too little, too late.
 

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:yeah:

I think the issue is really with dogs and ferrets, not cats. Having grown up with dog, and now having cats... I don't know, but believe it would be a heck of a lot easier to contain a dog going through heat or a male sensing females in heat than it would be to contain a cat.

The number of lost cats just posted about in the SOS forum here - indoor-only cats - that ARE spayed/neutered is enough, forget adding in hormone-driven break-outs.
 

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Rainbo, I don't think you've read the summary of the research. I'll go ahead and post it, instead of the earlier link.

Again, it's from this link, a blog post by Dr. Karen Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/30/neutering-health-risks.aspx
I did read it, but like I said for me spaying my dog was/is worth it. I also stated that if at all possible I wait until the dog is sexually mature which stops at least some of the health concerns associated with it..

I'm curious, why did you think I hadn't read it? I can probably clarify what I meant in my post.
 

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These statements:

"It greatly reduces the chances of mammary cancer which can also be life threatening."

And

"With male dogs the health benefits are not that great unless the dog has an undescended testicle, so I can see leaving them intact if the owner is up to preventing them from escaping and playing the neighborhood Casanova." - which I found confusing. The health benefits of desexing are not that great? Or the benefits of not desexing are not that great?

I read it to mean the health benefits of desexing aren't that great, which wasn't what I took away from reading the article - just not AS many benefits as in females.


I'm not arguing for or against desexing dogs. I have no experience other than with my childhood neutered male terrier.
 
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rainbo

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These statements:


"It greatly reduces the chances of mammary cancer which can also be life threatening."


And


"With male dogs the health benefits are not that great unless the dog has an undescended testicle, so I can see leaving them intact if the owner is up to preventing them from escaping and playing the neighborhood Casanova."



I'm not arguing for or against desexing dogs. I have no experience other than with my childhood neutered male terrier.
Ahh O.K.. I could have been more specific, and gone into more detail.

With the mammary cancer, the greatest benefit comes if the dog is spayed before it's first heat, but it still lessens the chances of the dog developing it even after the first heat

Here's some info on it
"Mammary Cancer (Breast Cancer)

Mammary tumors are by far the most common tumors in intact female dogs, constituting some 53% of all malignant tumors in female dogs in a study of dogs in Norway (15) where spaying is much less common than in the USA.

50-60% of mammary tumors are malignant, for which there is a significant risk of metastasis (16). Mammary tumors in dogs have been found to have estrogen receptors (17), and the published research18 shows that the relative risk (odds ratio) that a female will develop mammary cancer compared to the risk in intact females is dependent on how many estrus cycles she experiences:
# of estrus cycles before spay Odds Ratio
None 0.005
1 0.08
2or more 0.26
Intact 1.00


The same data when categorized differently showed that the relative risk (odds ratio) that females will develop mammary cancer compared to the risk in intact females indicated that:
Age at Spaying Odds Ratio
30 months 0.40 (not statistically significant at the P
 

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I've never had an intact cat. In 11 years, the longest we've even had an intact male in the colony is now - we're going on 10 months without having trapped "Tommy." Need to build a drop trap. But he keeps showing up here with the most horrendous wounds. They keep healing, but...
Never had a female go into heat before she could be spayed? Lucky! It's miserable. SHE'S miserable. You're miserable. It's just crummy altogether.

Also, even for dogs, a person really has to consider whether they can effectively prevent a pregnancy 100%. Because, especially if you have a large overpopulated breed, like a pit bull, Lab, hound, etc., the stakes are pretty high if you end up with an unplanned pregnancy. Large dogs have large litters, and you will not be able to find decent forever homes for a dozen Lab mix puppies. And I think avoiding that many puppies ending up dead trumps whatever possible health effects might be linked to altering. Anybody who cannot be 100% certain of preventing a pregnancy should alter their pet before sexual maturity, regardless of any possible ill effects.

And cats, of course, are even more overpopulated.
 
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