Kidney failure question about phosphorus binders

Hi!  It's me and Zero again!  Yes - thank God and the universe - she's still with me!  But it seems that every day we're focusing on yet another issue, which I'm learning is the norm when you have an older cat in kidney failure.

We are still dealing with the diarrhea, although it has improved somewhat.  The fact that she will only take any of her meds/herbs if I mix them with a bit of tuna, which she's allergic to.  Fancy Feast no longer does the trick..  My latest confusion is about phosphorus binders, which she needs because the only cat food she can eat is hitgh in phosphorus, and may be the cause of at least a couple of her new issues.  I read that aluminum hydroxide powder is the best binder, so a couple of weeks ago I ordered some.  It's on backorder, and frankly I forgot about it.  So yesterday I read in a few places that Aventi Kidney Support, which uses calcium carbonate and chitosan as binders, but it also professes to support cats with several other issues that come up throughout all the stages of kidney failure.  Any reviews I've been able to find about it are great, but it's a failrly new product so these may be advertising as well.  So yesterday I ordered that (I like to think of my purchases for Zero as optomistic rather than the blind panic it probably is!).

I would really like to cancel the backordered aluminum hydroxide and not the Aventi, partly due to the expense, but also because the Aventi addresses several issues. Obviously I don't want to give Zero anything that might hurt her, but she does have a lot of symptoms to deal with and to this point, she still seems content, is eating well, and still bossing me around!

I know many people will say I should take her to the vet for more bloodwork and advise on what to do.  But I promised Zero that I'd never take her to the vet again (nothing against the vet - I like her) because of the enormous stress it gives her.  And at her age I have every intention of keeping that promise.  I do have a vet willing to come to our home if/when we need her services.  In the meantime Zero has an accupuncturist come here every two weeks who was a "regular" vet for years but now does only Chinese medicine.  She has prescribed a few herbs over the past couple of months that I know have been helpfull.  I could ask her, but whenever I do, she generally tells me that since she hasn't used traditional medicine in a long time, she'd rather I ask the regular vet..

SO, after my usual lengthy description of things, I'm wondering if anyone has tried the Aventi or has heard any positive or negative reviews about it.  As always, thanks for your help!

Lauren & Zero

I was just thinking about you the other day and wondering how Zero was doing.  So glad to hear she is still with you  

I have not heard of this, and I DO have a cat with kidney issues.  If no one here responds, you might think about joining the yahoo kidney group and asking there.  They seem to be up on all the latest and greatest things for kidney disease. 

here is the website: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tanyas-ckd-support/info

OK, I searched Aventi on that yahoo group, and here's one quote that I got:

"I looked up Aventi KS. It appears to be former Renal Advanced. I have never used it, so cannot comment from personal experience, but here's what Helen says about it:

"It contains vitamin B6, vitamin B12 and vitamin B9 (folic acid), plus probiotics. However, it also contains Lespedeza capita, which is a diuretic and therefore contra-indicated in CKD cats, and prebiotics in the form of fructooligosaccharides which may increase calcium levels in some cases. Personally I would just use B vitamins, and a probiotic separately if appropriate."

Now, there were talking about Aventi KS, which may not be the same thing as what YOU are talking about.  AND, the person ended up getting it anyway, from what I could tell, so there you have it.    You know, on all these supplements, you will get positive and negative feedback.  Me,for instance.  I have purchased a couple of them, based on the fact the "all cats loved them", and, naturally, my one kidney cat will not touch them.  My other cats love 'em, but not the one who needs them

Continued vibes for Zero

OK, this may be a stupid question, but not knowing the background... have you already tried cutting her food with some cooked egg white? It's high protein, very low phosphorus...

for you and Zero.

Thanks for checking into the Aventi Kidney Support!  All this differing information has me going nuts!  I can't remember where I first heard of it, but the following quote is what made me decide to try it::  "The pharmacodynamic properties of lespedeza capitata include increase of diuresis and decrease of the bun concentration without modification of electrolyte balance....Dogs and cats showing symptoms of liver and kidney failure were treated with 1ml/kg once or twice a day through several days or weeks....the concentration of urine toxins decreased significantly".  Plus, I live in fear of congestive heart failure because she's had a very rapid heart rate for several and her breathing is a bit wheezy.  I know there's some debate about the calcium, too, but as you said, all this stuff comes with both positive and negative comments.  I'm still not at all sure I'm doing the right thing by going with the Chinese medicine rather than traditional and constantly feel guilty that Zero's not on any traditional medicine.  However, the one thing I am positive of is that I promised her I wouldn't take her to the vet again (I really think the stress of that would kill her), and I'm going to keep that promise no matter what.

Laurie - to be perfectly honest, I cooked some egg whites a couple weeks ago, then promptly forgot about them until I cleaned out the fridge yesterday!  I'm going to get some more and try again!  Zero's always been famous, though, for her ability to pick up on anything added to her food that I might want her to eat!  I guess all cats have that talent to some degree....

Try, "Oh shoot, how did those get in there? Zero, don't eat the egg whites!"

On the egg whites, if you have a Magic Bullet or blender, start with just a tiny bit, maybe a teaspoon for 3 oz of food, and blend the heck out of the cat food and cooked egg whites together so maybe she won't notice too much.  Then if she accepts that, slowly increase the amount of egg whites.  I am usually now able to add almost one full egg white to a  5 oz can of food for Callie, or (as in just now) two 3 oz cans.  Just now I cooked one egg white in the microwave for 20 seconds, then I dumped it in my Magic Bullet with two cans of Fancy Feast, a probiotic, and some digestive enzymes.  I pulverized the heck out of it until not even one teeny bit of egg white showed, and she ate it with gusto.

As to the Chinese herbs...I'd much rather go with them than western medicine.  After all, they've worked for thousands of years, as opposed to western medicine, which many times STILL doesn't work  

Wow Laurie - you've obviously been "mommy" to at least one controlling diva, too!.  I still don't get it - Zero knows by now that I would NEVER try to poison her and might even still eat her food if a dropped a bit of garbage in it.  But no matter how nonchalent I try to act, she'll refuse to eat anything at all that has even a molecule of something I want her to have in it!  Same thing with trying to pill her.  Her accupuncture vet and I are both frustrated because we never know if, when, how, or how much of one of her herbs she will actually consume, so last night I made a last ditch effort to pill her one of the tiny  round teapills.  But, as tiny and weak as she may be, she made if VERY clear where she thought both the pill and I should go!

And Sally, I also tried the egg whites again last night.  Her response, as usual, was to refuse that dish of food along with most of the other dishes of food I've tried to give her since!  I will definitely try your blender recipe, but I truly think that by now Zero is very well aware that I'm trying to sneak medicine into her, so any change in the look, smell or taste of her food gets an automatic rejection.  And because she's been so spoiled and indulged all her life, I have run out of anything that could be an irresistible treat for her.  Yesterday she did eat most of one herb that I mixed with a Fancy Feast flavor that was her all-time favorite when she was very young, but because of that Fancy Feast (she's allergic to almost all its ingredients), she had diarrhea today and only ate a couple of bites of that same flavor today,

I talk to her all the time when I'm brushing and/or petting her about how if she would cooperate with me, we could probably make her feel a lot better.  But as much as I try not to, I have noticed that she's been sliding backwards the past few days.  When I'm holding her, I do whisper to her that because I love her so much, I'll help her with whatever she wants, and that as much as I'll miss her, her Grammie and Grandpa would be so happy to see her.  But because I can't hold back the tears, I don't think she quite believes me.  And to be honest, even though I've lost two cats (AND my human family) before, the thought of losing Zero is more than I can comprehend.  So I'm sure she picks up on my fear regardless of how I try to hide it from her....

Anyway, the aluminum hydroxide arrived today, so let's see how successful I'll be at sneaking that into her food tonight!

I make my cat's food, but it's not ground. And I'm a freak, worrying about whether they're getting everything they need or not, so I use a lot of "stuff." I have a vitamin mix, I don't typically use real bone, so calcium has to be added, I give them probiotics, salmon oil, ubiquinol, glandular supplements... sometimes it can be quite a pile on their meat. :lol3: I have a cancer survivor and and FIV+ kitty that get extra stuff to help their immune systems. They all get tired of it sometimes. So once a week or so, I give them just plain meat as a meal, and I skip everyone's medication (except Flowerbelle's heart med).

Since your poor girl is so distrustful right now, is there a reason not to "clean the slate" and just do nothing for a couple of days? Let her know you know she hates it, and you'll let her give it a rest at times if she'll be more cooperative others. :dk:

:rub:

Thanks all of you for your help and support.  I want to let you know that my beautiful, wonderful, amazing Zero left this world this afternoon.  She had declined very quickly the past 3 - 4 days, and by this morning she could barely walk and was exhausted.  She had been unable to eat or drink anything for 2 1/2 days - she refused to let anything at all be put in her mouth.  We know that something was wrong in her throat somewhere, but couldn't see it by looking in her mouth.  But I knew by her actions and that distinct odor on her breath.  So I called a vet who came to our house this afternoon.  Thanks to a friend, she is being cremated and her urn will have a special spot with the others.  I can't talk or type right now due to the tears and the confusion of what to do with myself, but I thought you kind people deserved to know about my baby, and I knew you would understand....

Lauren

I am so very, very sorry   You were with her till the end, and gave her the greatest gift of all...letting her go .  My heart is breaking for you.

Run Free, Zero, free of pain

Whether or not you should use a calcium or aluminum binder depends on the level of calcium your cat has, so you need a vet's advice in making this choice.  If the cat's calcium level is already high, you should not use the calcium binder.

Whether or not you should use a calcium or aluminum binder depends on the level of calcium your cat has, so you need a vet's advice in making this choice.  If the cat's calcium level is already high, you should not use the calcium binder.