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Raw food & nutrients
- Thread starter stewball
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They do if it's had the nutrients added. There are premixes that have all the vitamins and minerals in the right ratio. Some have calcium added so bone or eggshell don't have to be added. Some also have liver powder added so you don't have to deal with liver. Raw food or cooked meat on it's own would not have all the necessary nutrients in it.
Well, feral cats live on mice, rabbits, other small prey, maybe some birds, bugs, and that's how they get all of their nutrition. 
The AAFCO definition of complete and balanced is not perfect: we don't know everything a cat needs. There's a good discussion of the issues in this thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261571/the-problem-with-home-made-diets-and-how-to-analyze-your-diet
Many people feed a style of raw called Prey Model Raw. Basically, when feeding cats, the idea is to "model" a mouse. By feeding meat, bones, and organs in the correct proportions (along with some eggs and a small oily fish to provide what's missing from "the model") cats can get everything they need.
The AAFCO definition of complete and balanced is not perfect: we don't know everything a cat needs. There's a good discussion of the issues in this thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261571/the-problem-with-home-made-diets-and-how-to-analyze-your-diet
Many people feed a style of raw called Prey Model Raw. Basically, when feeding cats, the idea is to "model" a mouse. By feeding meat, bones, and organs in the correct proportions (along with some eggs and a small oily fish to provide what's missing from "the model") cats can get everything they need.
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I feed my cats mice. My question for you is: How do commercial diets give them all the nutrients they need?
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I think its just like human food: commercial diets are supplemented with vitamins and minerals needed by cats per the not-perfect-but-what-we-have-now standards set by The Powers That Be (AAFCO or ?).
My question for you: do you breed your own mice or purchase them? Do you feed adults or "pinkie" age? Are the frozen and you thaw then out? I may have found a local source that is reasonable....
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I had the same question when I first heard about raw feeding. I kept reading these rave reviews about improved health on raw, and when nothing I did seemed to make a difference in my cats' diarrhea I figured "what do I have to lose?" I gave each a small piece and they loved it. So I researched for balancing, cost, etc and decided that ultimately I wanted to feed Dr. Pierson's recipe from www.catinfo.org. The grinder was on back order so I had to wait, but in the meantime I used premixes with meat. My cats' diarrhea cleared up in 24 hours and they were full of life. I've not fed them commercial food since.
That's great!
l feed mine homemade ground à la Dr. Pierson, but early on l decided l wanted them to eat mice. They, of course, had other ideas.
l bought them a bunch of pinkies to start, knowing as you said that they'd have to graduate to larger mice with a higher bone content. l thought for sure they would love them but they wouldn't even lick them.
l ended up grinding them into their homemade food
l feed mine homemade ground à la Dr. Pierson, but early on l decided l wanted them to eat mice. They, of course, had other ideas.
l bought them a bunch of pinkies to start, knowing as you said that they'd have to graduate to larger mice with a higher bone content. l thought for sure they would love them but they wouldn't even lick them.
l ended up grinding them into their homemade food
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It's very satisfying watching them eat mice for some reason. They crunch and chew and shake them around. The faces they pull as the work it from side to side are hilarious.
That's great!
l feed mine homemade ground à la Dr. Pierson, but early on l decided l wanted them to eat mice. They, of course, had other ideas.
l bought them a bunch of pinkies to start, knowing as you said that they'd have to graduate to larger mice with a higher bone content. l thought for sure they would love them but they wouldn't even lick them.
l ended up grinding them into their homemade food
This is a long digression from the OP but this is what I was trying to get at - mice are what cats are supposed to eat. Feeding raw you try to provide them with the best nutrition you can - in this case mice, in other cases by reconstructing a mouse. Feeding commercially, you're just feeding them something that won't kill them outright.
I was too cheap to buy pinkies/fuzzies. On $ to lb basis they're much more expensive than bigger mice.
Bella, on the right, had no interest in them at first. I tried putting Fortiflora on them but she'd just lick it off. I got her used to chopped up bits of hopper mixed into chicken - just legs, then 3rds then one day she just ate the whole thing. It only took a couple of weeks once I started doing this and it was me that was holding her back. I wasn't ready to give her a whole mouse but I was late coming home and my wife didn't want to chop it up so she just gave it to her.
One question that I have just out of curiosity. With a mouse that is freshly killed a cat would also be getting blood, does that make a difference in nutrients?
That's a great question! Of course water/moisture is supplied by blood, but so is potassium.
R0n1n, how much blood is there in these mice? I have to plead ignorance as far as how they are killed.
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Whole prey mice are usually killed with CO2.
The blood basically carries small amounts of all nutrients and minerals, I think. :dk: I know it's got iodine in it. I wonder if the USDA database has blood sausage listed? That'd give us a good idea of what's in blood. :lol3:
The blood basically carries small amounts of all nutrients and minerals, I think. :dk: I know it's got iodine in it. I wonder if the USDA database has blood sausage listed? That'd give us a good idea of what's in blood. :lol3:
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Hi Peaches,
As LDG noted they're gassed with CO2 and frozen. It's painless and hygienic.
I would have thought the blood would be high in protein and iron too. A lot of places in Asia still use blood in their cooking regularly. I never developed much of a liking for it myself but I don't doubt that it's highly nutritious. This is the only thing I could find that purported to have a breakdown for a blood:
http://www.fitbit.com/foods/Pig+Blood/914
I wonder if there's a place for blood in Frankenprey diets?
There's not a lot of blood in the mice. In fact I've only ever seen it when I used to cut them up and even then it would just be a red smear left on the knife blade. It's not like you puncture the mouse and it starts spraying copious fluids everywhere like a water balloon. I usually just drop them on a newspaper like in the picture and off they go. I only take off the top sheet after eating - any liquids they spill (if any) don't soak through any further.
Proteins, fats, etc are in blood since that is the nutritional transport system. I only mention potassium because Dr. Pierson says to use Lite salt with iodine due to the lack of blood in chicken thighs from the grocery store.
The reason Dr. P gives for using iodized salt in a chicken recipe is because of the lack of a thyroid gland:
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood
Blood does contain a lot of nutrients though.
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Yes, it must be iodized and I should have mentioned it. She uses the Lite salt specifically for the potassium, otherwise we would use regular iodized salt. But you bring up a very important point about the iodine and thyroid. I sometimes wonder with some of the PMR menus I've seen how the animal is getting iodine if they aren't getting thyroid glands?
