Cat biting herself (bleeding) on a nodular mass - refusing medication - photo

So here is the thing: 



My 13 year old Lucy -  which my brother "adopted" 10 years ago and then washed his hands clean of the responsibilities that come along with having a cat at home -  had this nodular mass the right side of her back (December 2012). I took her to a vet - so called vet - and he just by looking and touching it started making me panic saying it is an advanced cancer and that she had to be operated immediately!!! I asked the questions anyone would ask (like cant we run a test to be sure it is cancer, or even if it is, shouldn't we try to treatment first....and so on) Long story short I was put in a position of "it's now or it's too late" and we operated. He cut her like 12 cm! and here are the results (excuse my translation from French):

"Skin fragment 4 × 3.5 × 1.5 cm. Hypodermic nodular mass with circumscribed 1.8cm diameter. The mass is well defined surrounded by striated muscle and adipose tissue. It consists of a proliferation of these cells was crossed showing normal mitotic atypirs. Abscence of signs/forms of malignancy. Histological aspects of a fascist subcutaneous nodular hyperplasia"

Okay so then he said "It wasn't cancer after all, problem solved, nothing more needs to be done".   So I came back home this summer to find that the nodular mass is back!!!!  I asked a vet and showed him the old test results and he said if she is not bothered by it, let's not annoy her.  So I left it. (1 month ago).

Yesterday I saw her excessively licking the mass. Today, this is what happened - the 2 photos you see. I am not sure exactly what she did, but that didn't look good. I took her back to the new vet who seems to be quite good. He gave her antibiotics and anti-inflam and a collar so that she stops licking. The next vet visit is on Monday to identify how to proceed.

Problem 1:  Lucy is absolutely refusing the collar and resisting. I got her 2 types and she couldn't take neither. I forced one on her she got so violent and took it off!!!!! and she started walking backwards and hitting herself everywhere...

Problem 2: She is refusing her meds!! they are pills and I can only do so much to force them down!!! and I can't do syringe! My next step will be to crash them into a turkey slice and hope she will eat it all! (all shops are closed now so we have to wait till the morning. 

Problem 3: she is so violent hissing and scratching and attacking me I can't come close enough to clean the wound with "betadine". 

she is driving me so impatient and furious - and she is so scared and confused with herself. 

I am trying everything I can but she doesn't want to be helped!!!

....I am not sure what I am really asking for here. I just don't know what to do...

I read a lot about sprays that make cats relax, but apparently we don't have them here in this country.....

I think she needs to go back to the vet sooner than Monday.  Maybe the vet can do something with transdermal gel or shots for the meds.   Does she always have this temperament or is it something being caused by pain?  If this is new maybe the vet could give something for the pain so then she might tolerate the collar and be easier to pill.

Denice said:

 
I think she needs to go back to the vet sooner than Monday.  Maybe the vet can do something with transdermal gel or shots for the meds.   Does she always have this temperament or is it something being caused by pain?  If this is new maybe the vet could give something for the pain so then she might tolerate the collar and be easier to pill.

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Hi Denice. She had always been this way.  One of the vets she used to visit a few years ago eventually asked me not to bring her anymore because she is hard to deal with. I called the vet he said that I need to try harder!!! because it is equally harmful for her to put her through the stress of taking her back and forth (daily) for her injections. I am hopeful that when I mash the pill in the trukey she will eat that. She LOVES turkey slices.  it takes me at least one hour and lost of struggling (physically, me against her) to put her in her travel "cat-cage. 

Now when she even sees the collar she hides under the bed and start growling and hissing...

I am afraid I am hurting her whatever I do! and I am sure she can sense that she is making me uncomfortable, which is only making things worse. 

How do people relax cats?!

Have you tried the greenies treats pill pockets? It really helped me when I had to pill my cats.

Some cats are much more reactive than others.   I have a cat that I can pill but I never had any luck with syringe feeding him and of course he is the one with chronic digestive problems.  I would watch the videos both here and on youtube but never had any success with it.  The main thing is to stay calm but some cats will only take so much.  There are cats that will scratch or bite if someone pets them too long.  Hopefully the turkey will work.  A lot of people have had a lot of luck with the pill pockets that have been mentioned if you can get those.  I hadn't tried those because both of mine are good about pilling just the one can't be syringe fed.

I have a cat just like that, I have a friend help me. We wrap her in multiple towels with just her head out, one person has to scruff her and sit on her (not all the way of course) and the other person opens the mouth and pushes the pill in. Its a pain but maybe worth a try.

I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this.

I hate to say it this way, but I do think you may have to try just a little harder.    The last you want is for her to develop an infection from this. I would think that if she's continually biting and licking at it, and not leaving it alone, then it must be bothering her in some way.     What kind of collar is it? A soft collar is more comfortable, but they can find ways around it.  The trick to pilling and even putting the collar on is to stand behind her so she can't back up. Always stay calm, talk to her calmly, and move steadily, no matter how much she's freaking out. Secondly, I think I would get a second opinion, both from an oncologist and a feline dermatologist (if you have one in your area). I would not be happy that this supposedly non-cancerous mass came back after surgery.

Many vibes for Lucy! 

Goodmorning to all and thank you for your advice

Update: I managed to give her one of the 2 pills the she has to take in the morning. She is refusing the second. I am sorry to do this but I have no other option for now. I took her dry food away so that she feels hungry and eat the turkey!
I couldn't find a soft collar (we are under equipped) I made one myself but it didn't help.
I still can't get close enough to clean the wound, I am hoping my brother will at least do that - he has a tougher heart.
I like the idea of a pill pocket I don't know where to find those but I am going now to look around. I am also going to ask a vet that lives close by if he would agree to come give her injections instead of the pills ... it's a long shot but ill try....


I like how proud she is, it's just not the right time for it. I am fostering 3 orphaned kittens on the balcony and that only makes it worse!

How bad is it to leave her without a collar?! These plastic collars are torture!

Okay... I hope I find pill pockets!!!

Thank you all!!!

Some members have used baby "onesies" (bodysuits) to prevent their cats from licking or chewing at wounds or incisions. You'd have to ask the vet whether it would be okay to cover the spot, though, because it might slow down healing.

If she refuses to eat more than one piece of turkey, alternatives to pill pockets would be soft "cat stick" treats that you can break into pieces to wrap around the pills, other soft treats big enough to smash and hide a pill in, little cubes of cheese (soft, like mozzarella or string cheese), whipped cream or a dab of liverwurst.

My Peanut is also a fighter when it comes to vet trips and meds. Giving her pills is next to impossible, although I tried every kind of method. If I put them inside something she would unwrap, eat the cover and leave the pill, if I crush them into her food, she would refuse to eat the feed. if I force her to swallow the pills she would hiss, growl and spit back. Syringe feeding is also sooo difficult. I remember a pink syrup that we had to syringe feed her. it ended up with a pink stained room (we had to repaint, and buy new carpet and curtains), and a pink grumpy cat who didn't swallow a single dop of the syrup. She used to give a really hard time to her vets; two of the assistants had to get stitches and once she bit and cracked my thumb (it was weird, she gave me a clean punch hole on my thumb, that we could see my poor finger bone at the end). She is 15 and somewhat calmer now, but still she makes her point about how much she hates it, every time we have to give her meds.

Peanut is offically choosen by her vets the most difficult cat of their whole professions. So she is quite an extreme case.  But here are my battle tips with her if you ever need them (but I very much hope that things don't come to that point for you):

1) Ask your vet if it is possible to get injections instead, and try to find someone to visit her home for the injections (some vet clinics provide that kind of service, and a few times we got help from a senior vet student). It is a lot easier to control Peanut at home. 

2) You're probablly afraid to hurt her, so you become hesitant while handling her. I believe they can sense our hesitation and use it to their advantage. So be determined, make yourself believe that you'll make her take that darn med, and be persistent. I usually start by calming myself and giving a soft approach first, for the last few years she sometimes surrenders at that point, takes her med and clears off with a grumpy face. But if she starts to struggle then I contain her, and make her swallow that pill anyway (or clear her wounds or do whaever that needs to be done). 

3) To contain Peanut, at least two person was essential, three was better, one for to block her back and her sides, one in front of her to hold her from the back of her neck and make the main fight (and give the med if there's no one else to do that). Long sleeves, preferably a thick coat were essential, and we did use worker gloves to protect our hands at times. 

4) I know that this whole thing sounds and looks like a battle, but it actually is NOT a battle; be determined but don't be angry, do not sculd her, just be calm and stone wall her every escape, try to sooth her if she begins to panick. If she panicks anyway, then do let her go and calm down for a while. Then try again, it will be more difficult to catch her the second time, but you just have to try again if she needs that med. 

Btw, every time I need to do this, I hate myself and feel so bad about it. But every time, she seems to forget the whole thing within an hour, comes and hops on my lap and gives me her warm purrs, as if she says "it's all right, we're cool". And needless to say, seeing her back to her health again is priceless. 

djoe said:

 
Hi Denice. She had always been this way.  One of the vets she used to visit a few years ago eventually asked me not to bring her anymore because she is hard to deal with. I called the vet he said that I need to try harder!!! because it is equally harmful for her to put her through the stress of taking her back and forth (daily) for her injections. I am hopeful that when I mash the pill in the trukey she will eat that. She LOVES turkey slices.  it takes me at least one hour and lost of struggling (physically, me against her) to put her in her travel "cat-cage. 

Now when she even sees the collar she hides under the bed and start growling and hissing...

I am afraid I am hurting her whatever I do! and I am sure she can sense that she is making me uncomfortable, which is only making things worse. 

How do people relax cats?!

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What is hard to understand is a vet that won't see her again.  Maybe that vet shouldn't be taking care of cats.  I know the vet clinic that I take mine to does volunteer work with rescues and also for cats from a TNR group and I don't think they are unusual.  Many vets do the basic vet care for ferals.  I don't know exactly how they go about it but the cats get their basic exam, vaccinations, and neuter.  They probably give them some kind of sedative first.

Hey all, again, thanks for your advice!

So, I tried so many pet shops and pet hospitals today, and nobody had heard of the pill pocket. I got her some soft treats but she didn't like it . (She is very picky about food by the way... imagine she prefers Friskies to Royal Cannin!!! and she rarely ever eats wet food and she LOVES Turkey Breast slices!)  Turkey slices here come so thin! so I have asked the local supplier to get me a full piece, not sliced. I will dice it and squeeze the pills in -  does that sound like a plan?  Thank you jcat for the suggestion. 

The vet said the wound cannot be covered because it is not clinically cleaned yet and he doesn't want to do it until it is "covered with antibiotics". 

Now the collar, as you know it has been a battle to let her put it on. Eventually even my brother couldn't do it... so when I came back home in the afternoon I found this:


I freaked out, took the photos to the vet and was asking him to admit her in because it is getting out of control... so he insisted that I must force the collar on her no matter what her reaction is. He insisted that taking her in will cause her so much more stress... he is right.  It took me some 5 hours, but eventually with the help of a friend and my mother, we made it... she removed the collar at least 3 times (Don't ask me how!!!) and she even made a whole in it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but eventually we made it!!!!!  I realized that having my mother next to her makes less aggressive; even though my mom is cat-phobic. 

So this is lucy with the collar - can't see properly, hits the walls and doors and everything! as she walks, breathing fast, can't reach the food and can't reach the water.... she feels horrible.


I think I should get her that food that comes in tubes... and try that!  I hand feed her but she only takes the turkey. not even her friskies! 

She let my mom put some betadine on her wound, but not really clean it... 

I am worried about her getting dehydrated or something!!! and not being able to eat....  and it seems like this is not a matter of 3-4 days!!!! On Monday the vet will see her again but that is only going to be that beginning...

Any suggestions or thoughts you may have can help!

Thank you all very very much

Joelle and Lucy 

Hey again... I am thinking.
Of the collar is meant to stop her from biting and licking the wound, what stops her from scratching it with her back leg?!
Oh that would be a nightmare!!!!

You may end up hand feeding her or maybe hold the bowl up where she can get at it.  When one of mine had a cone on I would take it off so she could eat and then put it back on but I don't think you want to do that.  She eventually figured out how to eat and drink with it on.    I think that would be a hard place for her to get at with her leg.

Oh man! It looks painful!     Poor Lucy.

So we started out by Lucy licking and biting this mass and needing advice to try to get her to take the pills.

I'm trying to read through the posts. Is she now not eating on her own at all? Not eating is very dangerous. She needs to eat. Cats can develop hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease) within 48 hours of not eating, and it can be fatal.

Get her a small, shallow food bowl (like only 3 inches in diameter) and raise it. The collar will be able to go around the bowl so that she can get her mouth to it. Same with the water. I did a quick Google Images search to see if I could find a picture demonstrating what I'm talking about. Here's one: http://balancehomeopathy.webphic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/catEating2.jpg

Lucy is refusing to eat!
She is refusing hand feeding as well - whenever she smells the food she remembers the collar and starts fighting with it!

I will change her food bowl setting and see. Thanks for the suggestion goholistic.

I couldn't give her her medication this morning...

The vet that lives nearby will only return in 10 days that is a bit too late! I was thinking he could come and give her shots...

I am going to try a different paste maybe she will want to eat that...

Is it possible she might have a staph infection? Did the vet do a swab to check for staph or MRSA? Pets can get those just like humans. The MRSA can be deadly if its not treated with the right antibiotic. I have a friend who lost her dog to MRSA. It had a place on its hindquarters that looked similar to the one on your cat. I'm not saying that's what's wrong, but it wouldn't hurt to ask the vet if he/she tested for it. I've had cats get abscesses from fighting. If the abscess blows it leaves a hole. I live in Tennessee, in the U.S. On rare occasions I've had a cat get a hole that was made by a weevil, a type of worm. I hope you find out the exact cause and I hope she gets better. I lost a cat to ear cancer a few years ago. He had three surgeries before it finally got him. He had to wear a collar after each one. He didn't like it either. He would back up, ram the collar into the walls trying to get it off and hiss. Once he realized it wasn't coming off he would finally lay down and sleep. Try not to get too frustrated. As others have already said, cats can sense our moods. Best wishes. I know you will get lots of help, caring and concern on this site.

Yes cats hate the e-collar and it can be very emotionally difficult for them.

I had to use it on my feral cat William for 2 weeks when he had a tail injury and had to have his tail amputated . It was so hard, bc he had to recover inside my house wearing the cone, and I had not even petted him before that. I had to give him pills too. And he was crashing around with the collar too . Also it got messy around the collar where he was eating food, over time, but I did not take it off since I was more worried about him hurting his wound and he needed to recover so he could go back outside to his wife, Ace.

I agree with the other posters, that you have to keep the collar on your cat and just try to make her comfortable while she heals. You can try putting her pill in butter if she likes that. I find it is e asker to use a syringe and squirt it into the side of my cats mouth. You should ask any vet for a hard plastic syringe and don't try to use the one that is like an eye dropper as it doesn't work. Even if you use a pill, you should follow up with a squirt of water to help your kitty swallow the pill. I realize your cat is very difficult . I think for now it is most important to let her adjust to the collar. You will need two people to get a pill into her along with water to swallow it, so maybe your mom can help hold her wrapped in a towel.

I just came back from the clinic,lucy has not even touched her food. I did change the bowl and put it up but it looks untouched. She also refused to be handfed. She spent the whole day sleeping. When I walked in she changed room so that I don't bother her I guess.

I got her a multivitamin nutrigel and put some of that on her mouth. She hissed and went crazy but she eventually licked if off.

The vet not to give her the meds on empty stomach but well she is not taking any food anyway!

He said the priority is that she gets used to the collar and said not to give her the meds, even if until Monday, unless she starts eating again. If she still refuses then I will have to give her the injections myself. I asked the vet to show me how, I will have to pull myself together.

Once she takes the meds then he will cut her hair, clean up the wound properly and do the medical process to identify what is going on. ... I asked about MRSA he said most probably not since this is a recurring tumour.

I hope the multivitamins will keep her "on her feet" these couple of days.

The would is drying up and we were able to clean it today... that's at least one positive development.

poor girl, that's what is getting at her age of retirement...

You may need to syringe feed her but I am thinking she may fight it too. But just in case here is a helpful video to show you how. She must eat and if the collar is causing her too much stress and not wanting to eat then we have to come up with another solution to keep her away from that wound but unfortunately with cats, the E-collar seems to be the only option. She must eat though or there could be other complications. I know this is not easy and quite worrisome and stressful for you. I am sorry for everything you both are going through and you are doing such a good job trying to manage. for Lucy

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