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Phelps to erect anti gay monument

post #1 of 70
10/7/03 at 10:23am
Thread Starter 
Phelps To Erect Matthew Shepard Monument
by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff

Posted: October 3, 2003 5:57 p.m. ET


(Casper, Wyoming) Anti-gay preacher Fred Phelps has announced intentions to erect a monument to Matthew Shepard the gay college student brutally murdered five years ago near Laramie.

But, the monument will be no memorial. Phelps says the monument would be 5 to 6 feet tall and made of marble or granite. It would bear a bronze plaque bearing the image of Shepard and have an inscription reading "MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22."

The monument would be erected in downtown Casper, Shepard's home town.

Phelps has sent details of the monument to the city of Casper city council and there may be nothing the city can do to prevent it.

Phelps said he intends to put up the monument in City Park, already the location of a controversial statue of the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments statue was donated to the city by the Fraternal Order of the Eagles in 1965.

After a court battle over a similar monument in the city of Ogden, the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that any city that displays a Ten Commandments monument on public property must also allow monuments espousing the views of other religions or political groups on that same property.

Phelps told Casper council in his letter that if it attempts to prevent him from erecting the homophobic monument he's prepared to go to court.

"That is exactly what I said would happen," said Councilwoman Barb Watters. She said she warned the city when it accepted the Ten Commandments statue that the city risked other monuments advocating anti-Semitism and hatred of other minorities.

''I think the hate language will find a very cold reception in this community,'' councilor Paul Bertoglio said. ''I think this community's backbone is going to come up and say 'We are not going to accept it.'''

The city council is looking at several options, one is fighting Phelps in court, another is moving the Ten Commandments out of the park, and yet another proposal would be to sell the land the park is on.

Phelps says he doesn't care what the city decides. If he is unable to put the statue in City Park he said he will find another location in the city.

During Shepard's funeral members of Phelps' Westoboro Baptist Church demonstrated in front of the chapel.

?365Gay.com? 2003
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post #2 of 70
10/7/03 at 10:24am
Thread Starter 
This is horrible! I don't understand how someone who calls themself a Christian can do this. Hasn't Matthew Shepard and his family suffered enough? Matthew Shepard died a horrible death, why can't Phelps just leave it alone. If he thinks homosexuality is wrong then it's his descision, but he should still at least have some respect and compassion for Shepard and his family. This has to be the most UNchristian like thing I've ever heard of.
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post #3 of 70
10/7/03 at 10:26am
OMG thats terrible! And I thought christianity was all about not judging.

I really hope that someone will take down the statue if it gets put up - or that someone nixes the idea.

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post #4 of 70
10/7/03 at 10:33am
Goodness! I have no words, except how can one man think such evil thoughts and call himself chosen of God? He does not follow the God I know. I hope they shut him down!
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post #5 of 70
10/7/03 at 11:42am
ARgh, that really burns my chaps!!! I don't agree with him at all on this, he is not God so how can he say he's in hell?!!!! For him to die like that was very un-god-like and un-christian and inhumane. If anything, the people that committed the crime would be in hell! Whatever someone does behind close doors, provided it's not with a minor or a child (sick :censor::censor::censor::censor::censor::censor::censor:s), that's their business, but to say he'll go to hell that is not right at all. He's not God.
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post #6 of 70
10/7/03 at 11:44am
Disgusting. I think Fred Phelps is the one who deserves to be in Hell.
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post #7 of 70
10/7/03 at 12:54pm
I would have said this is unbelievable, but then I remembered what these people did at Matthew's funeral. Protested is an understatement. Harrassed would be my term. They held signs and SCREAMED at Matthew's grieving family and friends that he was in hell and they would join him. At the FUNERAL!!! This man and his followers of hate could do very little to surprise me after that.

If he does erect the monument, I hope someone takes it down with a sledgehammer.
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post #8 of 70
10/7/03 at 1:50pm
why do some people not like gay people! My boss daughter is gay is she is SUCH a nice person! UGH!! People are so stupid! Why dislike some one because of being gay!!
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post #9 of 70
10/7/03 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by uabassoon

.........bearing the image of Shepard and have an inscription reading: "MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22."
I feel sick after reading that article.

I still don't understand how one human thinks he/she has the right to rule and dictate over another. Phelps has every right to his way of life and religion but Matthew Shepard also had an equal right to his life, views and religion freedom.

And the anti-gay/lesbian population keeps spewing how horrible the gay/lesbians are?? They should try looking in the mirror and realize all these anti-gay actions are making them look horrible in the process.

Start treating everyone with respect, and live your life the way you want to live it. End of story. I hate when people quote the bible to further their own hateful actions.
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post #10 of 70
10/7/03 at 3:36pm
I would guess that one motivation for this is for the shock value - to create a sensational story that will be reported by the media, which will help spread his message of hate.
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post #11 of 70
10/7/03 at 10:52pm
reading this as a christian and a person with many Homosexual Friends I am kind of torn. Yes he is VERY wrong in doing this but in the christian religion you are supose to "witness" to fellow people about the Lord. I think that is his main goal in putting up the statue. I will not call it a monument because it is not one. But he is doing in a very extravagant way what the lord asks of us christians....To tell the world about his word. and to bring people to his house. This isn't going to do it but the man has the right to freedom of speech, Just like Matthew Shepards family and friends do. But Wyoming isn't exactly the state of Political Correctness. It's still pretty much a very conservative and "family" orentinted state. And in the Christian religion Homosexuality is not considered "family" it is considered an Unforgivable sin. And as much as I hate the fact that such horriable things were done to matthew, I have to respect Phelps choice to use his freedom of speech.
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post #12 of 70
10/7/03 at 10:55pm
reading this as a christian and a person with many Homosexual Friends I am kind of torn. Yes he is VERY wrong in doing this but in the christian religion you are supose to "witness" to fellow people about the Lord. I think that is his main goal in putting up the statue. I will not call it a monument because it is not one. But he is doing in a very extravagant way what the lord asks of us christians....To tell the world about his word. and to bring people to his house. This isn't going to do it but the man has the right to freedom of speech, Just like Matthew Shepards family and friends do. But Wyoming isn't exactly the state of Political Correctness. It's still pretty much a very conservative and "family" orentinted state. And in the Christian religion Homosexuality is not considered "family" it is considered an Unforgivable sin. And as much as I hate the fact that such horriable things were done to matthew, I have to respect Phelps choice to use his freedom of speech.
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post #13 of 70
10/7/03 at 11:28pm
maybe the parents could sue for libel.

How disgusting.

Perhaps the Reverend should add more room for the people Leviticus said committed other abominations:

-eating shellfish
-sex while a woman is menstruating. Actually, even touching a woman on her hand who has her period is considered 'unclean'
-touching the skin of a pig (there goes the entire NFL, and
I guess anyone who has had a heart valve implant which came from a pig.)
-uncovering the 'nakedness' of any woman, including one's own wife.
-wearing a garment made of 2 types of sorts, which I guess means fabrics

Leviticus was a hard guy to please.

It's funny how Jesus kept coming back to the same themes:
'Love you neighbor as you love yourself'
'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'

Something tells me that the heart of God, whom or whatever he or she may be, will reach out to this poor tortured child, not to a man who spews hate in His or Her name.
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post #14 of 70
10/8/03 at 12:07am
Quote:
Originally posted by Lucia

-eating shellfish
-sex while a woman is menstruating. Actually, even touching a woman on her hand who has her period is considered 'unclean'
-touching the skin of a pig (there goes the entire NFL, and
I guess anyone who has had a heart valve implant which came from a pig.)
-uncovering the 'nakedness' of any woman, including one's own wife.
-wearing a garment made of 2 types of sorts, which I guess means fabrics
Just to let you know all of those were from the Old testiment. The day that Jesus was born these Rules no longer applied to Chirstians. The lord Before he Gave us Jesus was a very "mean and fearful god".


Quote:

Something tells me that the heart of God, whom or whatever he or she may be, will reach out to this poor tortured child, not to a man who spews hate in His or Her name.
along the same lines as that statement. The lord will punish those who deserve it. Be it Matthew or Reverand Phelps. But it's beyond our control.
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post #15 of 70
10/8/03 at 1:27am
This is SICK.

That's all I'm going to say, for if I were to speak my mind, I'd probably be banned.
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post #16 of 70
10/8/03 at 1:39am
Thread Starter 
If anyone is interested in learning more on the Matthew Shepard story, I highly recomment the Laramie Project. It's one of the most accurate films I've seen on the story, yet a lot easier to watch then the documentary's that are out there.

I think Phelps is a horrible man, and is a sorry excuse for a Christian. He also set up protest rallys at Matthew Shepards funeral. His friends and family are grieving and this heartless man stood outside and yelled horrible things at them.

Shouldn't a true Christian be focused on other things? If you thing it's wrong that's your personal opinion, if you feel it is your duty to witness that's your personal choice. But I never knew of witnessing to be this cruel and heartless, the point is to teach, not to hate.
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post #17 of 70
10/8/03 at 3:14am
Quote:
Just to let you know all of those were from the Old testiment. The day that Jesus was born these Rules no longer applied to Chirstians. The lord Before he Gave us Jesus was a very "mean and fearful god".
The scripture that Phelps is quoting on the monument is coming from the Old Testament, also (Leviticus).
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post #18 of 70
10/8/03 at 4:24am
Quote:
If anyone is interested in learning more on the Matthew Shepard story, I highly recomment the Laramie Project. It's one of the most accurate films I've seen on the story, yet a lot easier to watch then the documentary's that are out there.
Laura - I saw that film on HBO the other day. It is very good and I recommend it too. I really feel so badly for the Shepard family.
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post #19 of 70
10/8/03 at 4:51am
Isn't the wholething about being christain to not judge people and to treat others like you would want to be treated?

Weither you think people are right or wrong as a cristain you need to get over it and except it.

I thought it was gods job to do the juding....atleast that is what I got out of four years of catholic highschool!
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post #20 of 70
10/8/03 at 12:37pm
Yes, that line about homosexuality being an abomination is from the old testament; I'm not sure why people will quote that but throw away all of the other laws. Heck, even in the new testament Paul says (can't remember from which book) that women should be silent during church service or something to that effect.

I'm a Christian, but I do feel that it's okay to question the Bible. Not that the bible is wrong, but mostly it's our interpretation of it.

As far as homosexuality being the unforgivable sin, I'm not sure where it says that. As far as I know, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. For the longest time, I didn't know what that meant, I thought it meant insulting the Holy Spirit or something! Another member of my church explained it this way: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit simply means denying that he (actually there is no gender, but for simplification I say he) exists, which means you are denying God. This makes sense; the only way to salvation is to believe Jesus died for you; if you don't believe that, then you go to hell and it's too late to be forgiven (thus the unforgivable sin). It's not as if there are some kind of special sins that are so bad even Jesus won't forgive you (like rape, murder, or being gay). By the way, there's a whole debate about whether hell exists, because it's actually never mentioned in the bible, at least not the hell that we envision today.

So, the church teaches that homosexuality is a sin, but in my view, if it's a sin, it's the same as any other sin and can be forgiven. I mean, we'll all be sinning in one way or another right up until judgement day, so I think gay Christians will make it to heaven.

Jesus did say that one of the worst sins a person could ever commit is to drive children away from God. This is exactly what Phelps is doing with his little stunts; it turns off non-Christians be reaffirming the idea that we are too judgemental and hateful.
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post #21 of 70
10/8/03 at 2:55pm
glentheman...that is so perfectly stated! I particularly agree with what you said here:

Quote:
Jesus did say that one of the worst sins a person could ever commit is to drive children away from God. This is exactly what Phelps is doing with his little stunts; it turns off non-Christians be reaffirming the idea that we are too judgemental and hateful.
It is exactly because of people like Phelps that most of my family and most of the people I know have left the church. It has been many years since I read the bible, but I remember nothing in the new testament that was filled with the hate and emotional violence that I hear spewed from the mouths of "Christians" like Phelps. It disgusts me.

Also, knowing what I know about human behavior, I'll bet that Phelps is a closet homosexual who can't handle the fact that he is attracted to men. I'm not being facetious here. In my experience, fanatics become the way they are because they can't handle the quirks of their own humanity.
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post #22 of 70
10/8/03 at 3:11pm
I'm with Sylent Rayne. I'll start flaming and get in trouble. The sheer stupidity of that man and his group is beyond belief.
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post #23 of 70
10/8/03 at 3:11pm
That is just sick! How unchristian-like can a religious leader be? All I can say is that I feel sorry for anyone that he gives direction to within his parish. Too bad they can't disbarr people like this.
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post #24 of 70
10/8/03 at 8:52pm
Quote:
Originally posted by WillowsMom
Just to let you know all of those were from the Old testiment. The day that Jesus was born these Rules no longer applied to Chirstians.
I know Leviticus is from the Old Testament.
I'm curious: does your Bible at home start with the Gospel of St. Matthew or the Book of Genesis?
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post #25 of 70
10/8/03 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by WillowsMom
And as much as I hate the fact that such horriable things were done to matthew, I have to respect Phelps choice to use his freedom of speech.
I don't think the point of this thread is whether or not this man has the constitutional right to free speech. It's about the content of this particular 'speech'. As to 'witnessing' to what the Lord said, Jesus also said that only he who is without sin could cast the first stone.Since Jesus and his mother, (in Catholicism) are considered to be the only sinless humans, I guess the Reverend isn't witnessing to those words of Jesus.
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post #26 of 70
10/8/03 at 9:16pm
i'm with Sylent and Kidsncats...all i can say is phelps is sick. if i said anymore...i'd be kicked off for what i'd have to say. *zips lips*
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post #27 of 70
10/8/03 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Lucia
I know Leviticus is from the Old Testament.
I'm curious: does your Bible at home start with the Gospel of St. Matthew or the Book of Genesis?

It starts with Genesis.
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post #28 of 70
10/8/03 at 11:12pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Lucia
I don't think the point of this thread is whether or not this man has the constitutional right to free speech. It's about the content of this particular 'speech'. As to 'witnessing' to what the Lord said, Jesus also said that only he who is without sin could cast the first stone.Since Jesus and his mother, (in Catholicism) are considered to be the only sinless humans, I guess the Reverend isn't witnessing to those words of Jesus.

The point of this tread was for people to voive their opinons. and that is exactly what I did.

I have not said that he is right in the way he is choosing to "witness". But freedom of speech is the issue here. Do people think he should be able to put up that "monument" with the statements he has choosen to put on it. and the answer is YES he has the right! the minute that they allowed that Ten commandments statue to be there they opened that park up for Any and all religious statues. There fore He is perfectly within his Rights to put it up. LEAGALLY

Morally is a Different story. I agree with everyone on this board that he is a very sick man! and that he has no right to judge Matthew for Matthew's choice in life. Not all christians are as drastic as Phelps is. But once again....He is very much within his rights to do what he pleases.
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post #29 of 70
10/9/03 at 3:44am
Quote:
I'm with Sylent Rayne. I'll start flaming and get in trouble. The sheer stupidity of that man and his group is beyond belief.
I've been keeping my comments pretty brief and neutral for the same reason.

However, I would like to mention that this is one of the problems with not having a clear separation between 'church and state' - which I don't think this country really has ever had. (Ever been sworn in with your hand on the Christian Bible? Ever looked at the 'In God We Trust' on the government-issued money we spend?)

The city had made the decision to put a 10 commandments monument on city property. In doing so, they opened themselves wide open to other religious groups wanting to place monuments that reflect their own religious beliefs - and if Phelps' case, the monument he wants to erect apparently reflects his beliefs and those of at least some of his followers (remember those awful signs people were holding at Matthew's funeral?).

His may not be the majority belief system (thank goodness), but he can certainly argue that the city has to allow him to express his religious views also, since they opened the door with the 10 commandments monument. (Boy, these 10 commandment monuments have been causing trouble lately...)
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post #30 of 70
10/9/03 at 6:56am
You have to wonder what they would say if someone proposed to put up on 10 foot pentagram. And what our dear Mr. Phelps would have to say about it!

By their own precident, and especially if they have to allow this one up, they would have to allow it.

Perhaps fighting fire with fire would work with this idiot. Put up Monuments to EVERY religious belief so this monument to hate is lost in the lot of them. I bet he would have a really big problem with monuments to Islam, Buddhism, Paganism, Atheism, etc. etc.
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