Holistic Vet Rabies Vax Angst

My vet has an extremely conscientious practice...I could describe all of the ways, but let's just say that he is a very crunchy individual.

That being said, he only offers the 3-year adjuvanted rabies vaccine. My 6 year old cat had not been boostered on anything since kittenhood, so I recently got her a FVRCP (non-adjuvanted) booster and was planning on boostering rabies. She is indoors-only, but she recently somehow escaped and spent the night in the bushes of our front landscaping, and all I could think of was what-if with regard to rabies.

My vet said he thinks that when you weigh out the costs and benefits, vaccinating every year is worse than every three years, regardless of the adjuvant, which is not what I've heard. It seems like it really wasn't an evidence-based statement, either, which I found odd for such a usually evidence-based practitioner. I feel that something else is going on (no idea what, though), but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

He did sort of wink wink nudge nudge that I could also not vaccinate at all, etc. "It's totally up to you."

Does anyone have any links to hard data for the studies indicating a correlation between adjuvanted rabies vaccines and sarcomas? I realize for the owners of cats who have suffered it's not a trivial matter, but sometimes the data bears out to show a really low risk overall.

I'm just sort of getting angsty over all of this...was set to trust my vet and get her the 3-year, but now I'm waffling and becoming worried all over again.

Here is one vet's take on vaccines that makes a lot of sense to me.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=vaccines

I think in your case, if legality is probably not going to be an issue and you just want to be sure she doesn't get rabies (with her teeny chance at exposure), I would give the PureVax vaccine once every 3-5 years.

All injections for cats have been linked to sarcomas, even sub-q fluids and injectable de-wormers :/. So PureVax may be slightly safer without the adjuvant but giving any injection yearly does concern me. It comes down to risk vs benefit.

To support Dr. Pierson's thoughts re: vaccines in the link above, there are now several studies published.

The Winn Feline Foundation recently published a 3-year study of the non-adjuvanted rabies vaccination (they only took it out three years), and found that it does confer protection against rabies for three-years, despite the one-year claim on the label. http://winnfelinehealth.blogspot.com/2013/06/long-term-immunity-to-rabies.html

The Rabies Challenge Fund is conducting research in dogs. Immunologic memory has lasted five years, though titre counts are not at the human standard: http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/...ies-challenge-fund-duration-of-immunity-study

How often does your vet get his rabies vaccination?

I was in the same boat with my kitten the vet said the three year was safer so I ended up getting it which I regret. I think I want to continue with the purevax instead and I was wondering what people's views are on using the purevax as a booster? I thought when I got the three year rabies it was good for three years but apparently they do need a booster after a year which I did not know, so I am hoping I can just do the purevax.

 Because she will have to get it twice I would probably advise using the purevax.

It is the law here to vaccinate for rabies but my cats never go outside and neither have ever tried to get out the door. I really worry about vaccinating Frank again (he is due for rabies next year) because of his probable IBD. I am for sure not vaccinating my 17 year old dog again I don't care what the vet says. 

AVMA Approves Rabies Vaccination Medical Exemptions http://truth4pets.org/2012/06/avma-on-exemptions/

But laws are state-based. 16 states allow medical exemptions:

16 STATES currently have MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS: AL, CA, CO, CT, FL, IL, ME, MA, NH, NJ, NV, NY, OR, VT, VA and WI. It is possible your state may have an undiscovered exemption that is not part of the main law. Such was the case in Illinois. And CA regulations changed county to county. If your area has an exemption unlisted here, please contact the Rabies Challenge Fund. They are working to provide more medical exemptions for unhealthy animals.

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Yes where I live in Canada we can get exceptions which I am going to ask my vet about. I just looked up the law and it also states that you do not need to vaccinate if the animal is precluded from being exposed so I could try that argument to for the cats (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_900567_e.htm). Though I do think will get Ava a booster and try to do the purevax but I think I am going try to get an exception for Frank and my dog Daisy who have elevated liver values so I do not want her getting vaccinated again.

8.  (1)  The owner or person having the care and custody of an animal that is in or has a physical condition that precludes the safe immunization or reimmunization of the animal against rabies is exempt from the requirement of this Regulation where,

(a) a statement of exemption is issued by a veterinarian with respect to the animal that sets out the reason why the animal cannot be immunized or reimmunized; and

(b) the animal is controlled in such a manner as to preclude its being exposed to rabies. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 567, s. 8 (1).

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We do get rescue kitties their first vaccination, and recommend that one year booster shot. But we will no longer vaccinate after that. :nod: I see absolutely no reason not to get the non-adjuvanted Purevax as the one-year booster.

(Sorry, I keep forgetting you live in Canada!)

LDG said:

We do get rescue kitties their first vaccination, and recommend that one year booster shot. But we will no longer vaccinate after that.

I see absolutely no reason not to get the non-adjuvanted Purevax as the one-year booster.

(Sorry, I keep forgetting you live in Canada!)

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Thanks LDG I think I will do that for Ava and stop giving everyone vaccines after that. The new vet I am seeing is pretty amiable so I think he will give me an exception and if not I am glad I can argue the part b section of the law because both my cats indoors and never even try to escape. It is a good idea to post what the different exceptions are in the states because I am sure there are a lot of people reading from there. 

vball91 said:

Here is one vet's take on vaccines that makes a lot of sense to me.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=vaccines

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Thanks! I've read through that...lots of good information.

LDG said:

To support Dr. Pierson's thoughts re: vaccines in the link above, there are now several studies published.

The Winn Feline Foundation recently published a 3-year study of the non-adjuvanted rabies vaccination (they only took it out three years), and found that it does confer protection against rabies for three-years, despite the one-year claim on the label. http://winnfelinehealth.blogspot.com/2013/06/long-term-immunity-to-rabies.html

The Rabies Challenge Fund is conducting research in dogs. Immunologic memory has lasted five years, though titre counts are not at the human standard: http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/...ies-challenge-fund-duration-of-immunity-study

How often does your vet get his rabies vaccination?

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Oh, I hadn't seen any of that. I was pretty convinced that PureVax was good for three years...it's nice to have further confirmation!

Willowy said:

I think in your case, if legality is probably not going to be an issue and you just want to be sure she doesn't get rabies (with her teeny chance at exposure), I would give the PureVax vaccine once every 3-5 years.

All injections for cats have been linked to sarcomas, even sub-q fluids and injectable de-wormers :/. So PureVax may be slightly safer without the adjuvant but giving any injection yearly does concern me. It comes down to risk vs benefit.

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This is pretty much the case. And what I'd like to do...but I am confused that my vet doesn't offer it. I was thinking about it - my husband is a physician, and he can pretty much order any vaccine he wants. Aren't vets the same?

OrangeBlossom said:

This is pretty much the case. And what I'd like to do...but I am confused that my vet doesn't offer it. I was thinking about it - my husband is a physician, and he can pretty much order any vaccine he wants. Aren't vets the same?

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I think so I am just going to make my vet order the purevax too

I have 3 cats.  One of my kitties gets no vaccinations due to feline herpes.  She's had all her boosters and she had a rabies shot about 6 years ago.  On the advise of my vet, though, she gets no other vaccines.  We can't give her the FVRCP because it causes a nasty upper respiratory infection.  The vet did tell me, though, that if we ever moved out of the area, she would do a titer and see if she needed the rabies vaccine.  She would also order the individual vaccines in the FVRCP (everything except the "R" part) to give those individually.

My other 2 kitties get the 3 yr rabies and nothing else.  They've also had their kitten shots and boosters.

stephanietx said:

I have 3 cats.  One of my kitties gets no vaccinations due to feline herpes.  She's had all her boosters and she had a rabies shot about 6 years ago.  On the advise of my vet, though, she gets no other vaccines.  We can't give her the FVRCP because it causes a nasty upper respiratory infection.  The vet did tell me, though, that if we ever moved out of the area, she would do a titer and see if she needed the rabies vaccine.  She would also order the individual vaccines in the FVRCP (everything except the "R" part) to give those individually.

My other 2 kitties get the 3 yr rabies and nothing else.  They've also had their kitten shots and boosters.

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What made you decide to give the 3 year rabies versus the PureVax?

OrangeBlossom said:

This is pretty much the case. And what I'd like to do...but I am confused that my vet doesn't offer it. I was thinking about it - my husband is a physician, and he can pretty much order any vaccine he wants. Aren't vets the same?

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Yes, vets CAN order any vaccine they want. But WILL your vet order it for you? That's the question. He would likely have to order an entire case, and if his other customers don't want it he might feel like he'd be out a lot of money. Maybe if you offered to pay extra.

Willowy said:

Yes, vets CAN order any vaccine they want. But WILL your vet order it for you? That's the question. He would likely have to order an entire case, and if his other customers don't want it he might feel like he'd be out a lot of money. Maybe if you offered to pay extra.

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That's a good point. Well, I think I will contact the office tomorrow and ask again for clarification about whether or not they ever bring in PureVax on request, and see what the deal is. He did mention in our previous conversation offhandedly that if I wanted to, I could get the vaccine somewhere else, so I think I know how the conversation is going to go! I'm not terribly thrilled about calling a bunch of vet clinics and dragging my cat out to an unfamiliar place for one vaccine...but the more I think about it, if I'm going to make the evidence-based assumption that PureVax lasts for at least three years...why wouldn't I choose it over the less safe adjuvanted three year vaccine?

I just went with what the vet had at the time.  They're not due for rabies for another 2 years, so at that time, I'll probably ask for the PureVax. 
 

stephanietx said:

I just went with what the vet had at the time.  They're not due for rabies for another 2 years, so at that time, I'll probably ask for the PureVax. 
 

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Gotcha.

The other holistic vet I called relatively nearby also only does the three-year - the one that is mercury-free, which is the one my usual vet uses. How bizarre.