I have been trying to look into different kinds of foods to give my cats. They are currently eating a vet prescribed dry diet for their intestinal issues, and my kitten's stools have improved on this food, but I keep hearing so many bad things about dry food. However, I worry that a raw food diet could be just as dangerous. Couldn't feeding cats raw eggs and raw or partially cooked meats expose them to salmonella, E. Coli, and all kinds of parasites? Also, even if you add supplements to the food, how can you possibly guarantee that you have the right combination and amount? These have already been added to commercial cat food. I'm not trying to make all the raw food diet advocates angry. I just find this all very troubling and confusing. There was a blog on the ASPCA website talking about the dangers of raw food as well.
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Isn't a raw food diet dangerous?
- Thread starter tabbysia
- Start Date
Take a look at this thread under the Raw and Home Cooked sub forum:
http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread
The short answer is that many, many people have been feeding a raw diet for many years and their cats are healthier for it. You have to learn how to do it properly but it really isn't all that hard.
Cooked homemade is another option you may want to consider if you are worried about pathogens.
There are vitamin/mineral mixes available to make either a cooked or raw food nutritionally balanced as per AAFCO recommendations.
If you have questions about how to go about making your own raw or cooked food you might want to start a thread in the Raw and Home Cooked sub forum. There are lots of people there eager to answer your questions!
http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread
The short answer is that many, many people have been feeding a raw diet for many years and their cats are healthier for it. You have to learn how to do it properly but it really isn't all that hard.
Cooked homemade is another option you may want to consider if you are worried about pathogens.
There are vitamin/mineral mixes available to make either a cooked or raw food nutritionally balanced as per AAFCO recommendations.
If you have questions about how to go about making your own raw or cooked food you might want to start a thread in the Raw and Home Cooked sub forum. There are lots of people there eager to answer your questions!
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You will find that most raw feeders will not get angry at these questions. In fact, I welcome these questions because it means that you're thinking about it instead of automatically dismissing it. You will find that most raw feeders have done an extensive amount of it research into it. We've all been where you are. Is raw food dangerous for my pets? Why is dry food bad? How do I ensure that my pets get the best nutrition possible?
Yes, raw food does contain a certain amount of risk from bacteria. There are things you can do to mitigate those risks like buying meat as fresh as possible, freezing for 3 days which kills some (not all) bacteria, not buying pre-ground meat which has a higher risk of bacterial contamination, etc. Most raw feeders have never had a pet get sick from bacterial contamination from raw food. In fact, there are many more cases of pets getting sick from bacterial contamination of dry food. If you look at the recent FDA recalls of pet food, most are for salmonella contamination of DRY food. So given the bacterial risks inherent in both, I would much rather control the quality of ingredients by feeding raw.
Dry food is considered bad for pets for a variety of reasons. Cats are obligate carnivores who must get their nutrition from animal sources. Dry food must contain species-inappropriate grains/starches in order to bind the food together. There dry foods are way too high in carbohydrates which cats have no nutritional need for. In addition, cats are geared toward getting their moisture needs from food (think mouse) and have a very low thirst drive. Dry food (10% moisture on average) does not provide that and since cats don't usually drink enough to offset that, dry food can cause chronic mild dehydration which is hard on the kidneys. In fact this vet (www.catinfo.org) strongly suggests that dry food is the main culprit behind the rise in kidney disease in cats. Dry food also almost always includes a meat "meal" of some kind. By FDA and AAFCO definitions, meal is a rendered product that *may* include meat from 4D (dead, dying, diseased, disabled) animals rejected for use in human food – including euthanized animals. That's not stuff I want my cat to be eating, but there is no way to know what's in that bag of dry food. Here is another vet's take on why dry food is bad. http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-dry-food-is-bad-for-cats-and-dogs/
As for the AAFCO "nutritionally complete" assurances, they are based on current research (of which there is not enough) about what the nutritional needs of a cat really are. In fact, taurine requirements for cats were increased within the past few decades. http://blog.onlynaturalpet.com/2008/02/16/the-importance-of-taurine-for-dogs-and-cats/ Here is a very detailed discussion about what AAFCO "nutritionally complete" assurances mean to different people. Although it's a very long thread, it is very informative. http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239691/nutritionally-complete-assurances-for-our-pet-food AAFCO guidelines are not a mystery, and some raw feeders do design their raw food to meet/exceed those guidelines. There are pre-mixed supplements that do exactly that and you can also design your own supplement mix with individual supplements. The main reason that commercial cat foods must have these supplements added back in after the cooking process is that the quality of the ingredients in the first place were not of the highest quality so not very bioavailable AND the cooking process destroy/degrades some nutrients. To put this in perspective, while many raw feeders do supplement to meet/exceed AAFCO standards, you have to realize that there are also many raw feeders who do not supplement at all. They only feed meat, bone and organs in the proper proportions and add maybe egg yolks and sardines as supplements. That's it. These feeders are confident that the nutritional profile of it this raw food is enough and that enough is bioavailable to cats in the raw form that supplementation is not necessary. There is more of a history feeding this way for dogs than cats, but there is at least a decade of history of feeding cats this way.
I think it is important to do your own research and decide for yourself what's important to you and your cats. I think it's great that you're asking questions.
Yes, raw food does contain a certain amount of risk from bacteria. There are things you can do to mitigate those risks like buying meat as fresh as possible, freezing for 3 days which kills some (not all) bacteria, not buying pre-ground meat which has a higher risk of bacterial contamination, etc. Most raw feeders have never had a pet get sick from bacterial contamination from raw food. In fact, there are many more cases of pets getting sick from bacterial contamination of dry food. If you look at the recent FDA recalls of pet food, most are for salmonella contamination of DRY food. So given the bacterial risks inherent in both, I would much rather control the quality of ingredients by feeding raw.
Dry food is considered bad for pets for a variety of reasons. Cats are obligate carnivores who must get their nutrition from animal sources. Dry food must contain species-inappropriate grains/starches in order to bind the food together. There dry foods are way too high in carbohydrates which cats have no nutritional need for. In addition, cats are geared toward getting their moisture needs from food (think mouse) and have a very low thirst drive. Dry food (10% moisture on average) does not provide that and since cats don't usually drink enough to offset that, dry food can cause chronic mild dehydration which is hard on the kidneys. In fact this vet (www.catinfo.org) strongly suggests that dry food is the main culprit behind the rise in kidney disease in cats. Dry food also almost always includes a meat "meal" of some kind. By FDA and AAFCO definitions, meal is a rendered product that *may* include meat from 4D (dead, dying, diseased, disabled) animals rejected for use in human food – including euthanized animals. That's not stuff I want my cat to be eating, but there is no way to know what's in that bag of dry food. Here is another vet's take on why dry food is bad. http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-dry-food-is-bad-for-cats-and-dogs/
As for the AAFCO "nutritionally complete" assurances, they are based on current research (of which there is not enough) about what the nutritional needs of a cat really are. In fact, taurine requirements for cats were increased within the past few decades. http://blog.onlynaturalpet.com/2008/02/16/the-importance-of-taurine-for-dogs-and-cats/ Here is a very detailed discussion about what AAFCO "nutritionally complete" assurances mean to different people. Although it's a very long thread, it is very informative. http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239691/nutritionally-complete-assurances-for-our-pet-food AAFCO guidelines are not a mystery, and some raw feeders do design their raw food to meet/exceed those guidelines. There are pre-mixed supplements that do exactly that and you can also design your own supplement mix with individual supplements. The main reason that commercial cat foods must have these supplements added back in after the cooking process is that the quality of the ingredients in the first place were not of the highest quality so not very bioavailable AND the cooking process destroy/degrades some nutrients. To put this in perspective, while many raw feeders do supplement to meet/exceed AAFCO standards, you have to realize that there are also many raw feeders who do not supplement at all. They only feed meat, bone and organs in the proper proportions and add maybe egg yolks and sardines as supplements. That's it. These feeders are confident that the nutritional profile of it this raw food is enough and that enough is bioavailable to cats in the raw form that supplementation is not necessary. There is more of a history feeding this way for dogs than cats, but there is at least a decade of history of feeding cats this way.
I think it is important to do your own research and decide for yourself what's important to you and your cats. I think it's great that you're asking questions.
There are a lot of opinions about food. It would be better to get your cats off the dry. You can do that with a good canned food as well and you may very well meet resistance from your adult cats about making the switch,
I believe there is a risk from bacteria and I think most raw feeders agree there is a risk. They just feel that the benefits outweigh the risk. Some raw feeders say there is no risk because a cats natural diet is raw. Unfortunately during the processing some bacteria that isn't in fresh killed prey can get in the meat. I am going to start trying to feed a cooked diet. I feel I will get a lot of the benefits of raw feeding but cut the risk of bacterial contamination.
I believe there is a risk from bacteria and I think most raw feeders agree there is a risk. They just feel that the benefits outweigh the risk. Some raw feeders say there is no risk because a cats natural diet is raw. Unfortunately during the processing some bacteria that isn't in fresh killed prey can get in the meat. I am going to start trying to feed a cooked diet. I feel I will get a lot of the benefits of raw feeding but cut the risk of bacterial contamination.
Aside from the recalls on kibble, once the bag is open for a while it has been exposed to pathogens. Just like any other food (human or otherwise). So the risk of pathogens is about equal. It's also worth mentioning that the cats aren't getting sick because their digestive systems are designed to handle it. As far as bacterial risks and dry, some feel the risk increases because of the lengthened digestion time it takes to process kibble. The bacteria have time to grow and wreak havoc in the kibble diet. As far as e coli, they expose themselves often when washing their behind. Raw leaves less mess though.
Also, what goes into commercial foods is why I switched to raw. The chemicals found from deceased animals, some are not appropriate for cats at all! I know that I could end up buying recalled meat from the store. But there seems to be much more attention paid to foods for human consumption than for animals. And if I won't eat it, I don't expect that it is any good for my cats either.
As vball91 mentioned, good on you to investigate options!
ETA: as others mentioned, you can always cook the meat. Just not bone. There are ways to supplement the calcium.
Also, what goes into commercial foods is why I switched to raw. The chemicals found from deceased animals, some are not appropriate for cats at all! I know that I could end up buying recalled meat from the store. But there seems to be much more attention paid to foods for human consumption than for animals. And if I won't eat it, I don't expect that it is any good for my cats either.
As vball91 mentioned, good on you to investigate options!
ETA: as others mentioned, you can always cook the meat. Just not bone. There are ways to supplement the calcium.
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:nod: I think anyone feeding raw has asked these questions - it's only natural!When I finally decided to switch to raw, I had a cat in chemotherapy; I have a kitty that has FIV; and I have a kitty that had fought an autoimmune disease that causes anemia (he almost lost his life twice) that he'd been battling for seven years - and he was basically JUST being declared "in remission." I had a LOT to lose if raw was going to make my pets sick.
I spent the time doing the research, and I became convinced that the risks were worth the benefits. As I just told someone yesterday, I went through a long period of several stages before I came to the decision to feed raw though. First, we dropped the kibble and went to all canned food. I was impressed with the changes I saw in my cats just from that switch! Then for almost a year, I researched and argued all the problems with raw. :nod:
...but it only took me two months to start feeding raw once I started researching what I was feeding them, by NOT feeding raw.
Because I was nervous about pathogens, I started with the pathogen-free commercial foods that are already complete and balanced. I watched them change, and thrive once they were on an all raw diet (which took time) - and I thought they were thriving before. At that point, I didn't worry about pathogens, because I could see for myself what this food did for them. If ALL of this that the raw feeders said was true, then the part about healthy cats being able to handle pathogens is probably also true. I certainly believe that the benefit outweighs the risk - and even my three immune-compromised kitties have had no problems.
I've had food poisoning myself (from COOKED seafood). While it wasn't fun, it is over with quickly. I rescue cats, and most of them have some form of parasite or bacteria when rescued - e. coli, coccidia, giardia - and they're all quite treatable (if the infection hasn't already done damage - but feeding our pet cats, we'd see right away there was a problem - if there ever was one). :dk:
Finally, as others have pointed out, the risk of bacterial contamination exists in kibble. The CDC may advise against feeding raw, but there have been no reports of humans being contaminated from raw food fed to pets, yet there have been 128 reported cases of humans getting sick with salmonella from feeding kibble.
Included in the CDC recommendations for feeding dry food to our pets are:
- "When possible, feed your pet in areas other than the kitchen."
- "Avoid washing your pet’s food and water dishes in the kitchen sink or bathtub in order to prevent cross-contamination."
- "When possible, store pet food away from any area where human food is stored or prepared."
Edited to add: So the CDC recommends not feeding kibble in the kitchen; not washing kibble dishes in the kitchen sink, and to not even STORE kibble in the same pantry with human food. Does that seem a little excessive? So... maybe the "don't feed raw" is also overstated. Food for thought... OK, done editing.
Raw feeding definitely isn't for everyone. Of course, just like people do best with some fresh food in their diets, not all of us completely avoid highly processed foods; we can do the same thing for our cats. Their diet doesn't have to be completely devoid of highly processed commercial food, but they'll still benefit from the inclusion of fresh food - it's just their equivalent of "fresh" is meat, bones and organs - not apples and broccoli. :lol3: A number of people feed a combination of raw and canned, and for those that do not feel the benefits of raw outweigh the risk of bacteria, some are cooking for their kitties.
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It is troubling and confusing. The way I made sense of it was to look at WHO was arguing which sides. From what I found, both in terms of studies and other information is the following:
Advocates AGAINST raw include the following groups:
1. Pet food companies, who are also often giant corporations (Mars, Inc., Proctor & Gamble, Colgate-Palmolive, etc.)
2. Pet food industry sponsored studies.
3. General practice vets (i.e. NOT nutritionists)
4. Large organizations (ex. ASPCA)
Advocates FOR raw include the following groups:
1. Vets who ARE nutritionists
2. Owners who've tried everything and all that worked was feeding raw
3. Pottenger -- as far as I know, the only study that has anything to do with raw diets that was not sponsored by the pet food industry
4. In general, INDIVIDUALS who have done a lot of research
5. Evolution
When looking at these sources, particularly #1 on each list, it was easy for me to decide to go raw. Yes, the part about the AFPCA worried me, but I had to remember that many of those members might be uninformed, especially once I learned that most vets learn about nutrition in maybe ONE semester of their training, and that class is highly endorsed by pet food companies. In the end, though, I simply trust that vets who HAVE done research in nutrition are more likely to be informed AND have pets' interests at heart, while large corporations probably don't. I am doing commercial raw right now, but because my cat has mouth issues, I want to add in meat chunks at the very least, and will be getting some supplements once I have more money (I can't spend ANY more money, other than on actual food for the rest of the month).
Hope that helps!
Advocates AGAINST raw include the following groups:
1. Pet food companies, who are also often giant corporations (Mars, Inc., Proctor & Gamble, Colgate-Palmolive, etc.)
2. Pet food industry sponsored studies.
3. General practice vets (i.e. NOT nutritionists)
4. Large organizations (ex. ASPCA)
Advocates FOR raw include the following groups:
1. Vets who ARE nutritionists
2. Owners who've tried everything and all that worked was feeding raw
3. Pottenger -- as far as I know, the only study that has anything to do with raw diets that was not sponsored by the pet food industry
4. In general, INDIVIDUALS who have done a lot of research
5. Evolution
When looking at these sources, particularly #1 on each list, it was easy for me to decide to go raw. Yes, the part about the AFPCA worried me, but I had to remember that many of those members might be uninformed, especially once I learned that most vets learn about nutrition in maybe ONE semester of their training, and that class is highly endorsed by pet food companies. In the end, though, I simply trust that vets who HAVE done research in nutrition are more likely to be informed AND have pets' interests at heart, while large corporations probably don't. I am doing commercial raw right now, but because my cat has mouth issues, I want to add in meat chunks at the very least, and will be getting some supplements once I have more money (I can't spend ANY more money, other than on actual food for the rest of the month).
Hope that helps!
