Expecting Kittens

Hello everyone on TCS. As I had mentioned before I have another cat ready to have her kittens. I'm expecting them within the next week or two. Coon, my queen, is very round and showing signs that the day is coming. She is constantly eating and drinking and grooming herself. Also I noticed with my last cat that when she got closer to birthing our dogs would not stay away from her, constantly shoving their noses in her butt (trying to be polite in the way I say it . I'm looking forward to this litter and with the help from everyone with my last litter I feel a little more prepared. Are there any last minute tips or suggestions? I have gotten her a place all set to have the kittens and show it to her daily. She however doesn't seem to show interest. I have blankets and a comfy kitty bed in a laundry basket tucked away in a little spot where people and other pets won't get to her. I also do believe that our third female is pregnant. I noticed today that she is starting to get plump. About two weeks ago on of the males came down with a sever bladder infection and ended up staying at the vets for a week. while he was there he did get snipped. For the past two weeks we have been keeping the male completely isolated from the females. They have their own room with food water and litter box and of course my brother and his children to give them all the attention they want. Once again thank you all for your help in the past and I'm feeling more confident and ready for the next two litters, and very positive that these will be the last we have. Once we get the vet bill down a little, we are going to have the second male fixed as well. 

So the point of this thread is to ask for any last minute pointers or advice to be better prepared for the upcoming delivery. Any and all suggestions are welcome and will be appreciated.

Thanks again!

If you haven't already, looking through the PC&K articles as well as old threads is a great place to start: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249018/...regnant-cats-kitten-care-articles-and-threads 

I think it may be hard for members to respond to your thread because you have been through this before and we don't want to be repetitive. The more specific the questions you have, the better advice we can offer you so please, take the time to look through the posted information and let us know what areas you need assistance with!

I think it goes without saying but your thread left it a little unclear to me: Make sure that BOTH males are fully separated from all of the females right now. Males can retain active sperm for several weeks after neutering so you aren't in the clear there. And, your girls can go back into heat anytime after giving birth. I know you don't want any more litters and the only way to prevent that is to keep them 100% separate until after each female has been spayed. I would seriously put as many doors between the girls and the boys as you can to prevent conjugal visits! Having back to back litters is also dangerous for your girls and for their future kittens. So, do what needs to be done in that area to keep this from happening again!

Best of luck. Please add more specific questions as they come up! 

 In addition to the articles on this site,   you might also take a look at these  

 A short article on normal cat birth  http://www.icatcare.org/advice-centre/cat-care/normal-cat-birth

 A more detailed article about  cats giving birth ,  what is normal, what is not normal/ possible problems,   when to help,  and when to see a vet.   http://www.icatcare.org/advice-centre/cat-care/cat-birth-–-when-wait-and-when-worry

& there are some more articles there about cat pregnancy, raising kittens etc.    http://www.icatcare.org/taxonomy/term-test/20/0

    EB is right that males cats are fertile for a while after they are neutered  --  They may still have sperm in the  tubes,  and it can stay viable for weeks,   in fact male cats can be fertile for up to 7 WEEKS after neutering!   (This info is from a top vet school.)    So you really need to keep them separate for at least that long just in case. 

  I agree,  I would try to keep 2 doors between the males and females  if possible. so there's less chance of sneaking together .  You need to be very vigilant about it.      I would not care how much they holler!    (but you might need earplugs!  )

Did you try that Spay USA number yet and were they able to suggest anything?  

 I am just concerned because this is how people end up with 50 cats. ....     a few cats have litters ( and it is not usually just 1 kitten! )   then  if they can't find good homes for all the kittens ,  they still have some of the kittens when they reach puberty  ( sometimes as young as 4 months  and the humans might not even notice the signs at first !)  and they start breeding with their relatives  .....  it can quickly get out of control.   

The other thing is that raising a litter ( extra quality food for the mom, then for the kittens from when they start eating up to at least 10 weeks old,  plus extra litter, plus shots,  vet check up, de-worming)    is  not cheap.   It  truly isn't.  The costs might not be all in one big chunk but they add up. 

I don't know if you would be open to the possibility of a spay/ abort for the 3rd female cat who may be early in pregnancy.  It's not a pleasant thought.   but neither is the reality of  all those already born kittens who are being killed at shelters / pounds every week for being homeless.  If you could find a place you could get it done that you could afford now,  it would cost less total  than raising the kittens plus getting the mom fixed later. 

Thanks for the links. I'm sorry that my thread didn't seem to have a certain question. I am all prepared for the birthing, it's the weeks after that I'm asking about. What is normal behavior for the mom and kittens? what are some of the signs that something might not be right? What should I have around for just in case something goes wrong? I'm pretty sure that if the queen keeps dragging her kitten out into the open busy room like the living room or kitchen, it is a sign that something might not be right. what else should I watch for? I really want this next litter and the following litter to live. We were all very sadden with the lose of the last one. Yes I do understand the expenses of kittens and cats and how important it is to keep the boys and girls away from each other. I am planning on finding them good homes. They will not end up in a shelter or abandoned on the side of the road. I am a huge cat lover and even thou these kittens were unexpected or unplanned, I still plan on doing everything I can to help the moms and kittens. 

  I would keep the queen and kittens isolated  in their own quiet nursery room,  until kittens are around  a month old and then they can start to have short supervised  visits  outside the nursery  with healthy vaccinated pets.,   and the kids can play with them ( young kids should be supervised since it's very easy for a small kitten to be hurt by accident)    I don't mean that  I 'd never let the mom out of the room to run around a bit in some other rooms if she wanted.  

 It is a good idea to weigh baby kittens daily on a scale that weighs in small amounts.     like a baby scale or a kitchen scale or postage scale.   If you dont have one , maybe you could borrow one?     You want to see the kittens  putting on an average of at least 10 grams a day.   it's ok if one day they don't make that gain.  but you dont want to see that for several days in a row.  

 In the first 2 weeks,  only handle kittens a few minutes a day.  just enough to have a quick look at them  and make sure they seem ok , and weigh them.     Do that where their mom can see you and return the kitten quickly to her.   I would not let a lot of different people touch them.     

 After 2 weeks old,  start gently handling them more,  and increase as they get older.   

 Another major thing is hygiene.   Keep their room clean, change and wash their bedding at least weekly but depending on the queen and kittens they may need it changed and washed daily.   Usually it's somewhere in between like every 2 or 3 days.   

Wash your hands well with soap and water before handling kittens. 

 & when they are born,  and the mom or you has severed the umbilical cord,  dab the stump of it with some antiseptic  like Betadine solution , to prevent infection getting in that way.  

It's hard to predict exactly how a mom cat will act and not always easy to interpret their behavior.   I think your other queen may have realized something was wrong with the kitten.  and was just confused about what to do.   

  That one page  I gave has this link  about behavior . http://www.icatcare.org/advice-centre/cat-care/bringing-litter-kittens-–-behavioural-considerations

Thank you for the great advise. I luckily do have a scale that measures in grams so I will keep an eye on weight. I'm pretty sure she is going to be having them within the next week. If I notice that the kittens aren't gaining the weight what do I do?

If you notice a kitten isn't gaining,  the first thing is just try to make sure that kitten gets some extra nursing time. like when other kittens are sleeping ,  try to get that one to nurse,  preferably on a back nipple that often has the most milk.  and try that every few hours.

 If the kitten still isn't gaining enough,  then  you can try supplementing with bottle feeding kitten formula,   and also you can de-worm them  earlier than you might otherwise do.  It can be done at 2  wks if needed .   but talk to your vet about it.  

The other thing is of course make sure the mom cat has plenty of high protein, moderate to high fat,  low carb food,   and it's best to give at least half wet food. 

I agree with Maewkaew's very sound advice. However, if you have a kitten who starts losing weight you first and foremost need to consult with your vet to be sure there isn't an underlying infection or something like parasites/fleas going on. Kittens can crash very quickly so it's important to keep a close eye on the weights and contact your vet ASAP if needed.

If there is no underlying problem then that is the time to try extra nursing time or, supplemental bottle feedings.

It's normal for kittens to have weight fluctuations so one or two days with really low (or really high) gains are normal. It's when you have very low gains for more than 2 days or any signs of weight loss that you want to intervene.

What an exciting day. Coon had 5 kittens this afternoon. She still looks plump and her belly is kind of hard. Could she still have more? The last one was 5 hours ago.

I have noticed that she has been acting very skiddish and jumpy. I put a litter box, food, and water in the room for her and when she eats or drinks she is rushing and whenever she hears the slightest noise she runs back to the kittens which are two feet away from her.  During her first trip out of the box I changed the bedding which was really nasty and still had some of the after birth in it. A while later one of the kittens pooped and she ignored it so I cleaned that up too. I'm just wondering if I should leave the mess for a bit to give her time to clean it up or just clean it up as soon as I notice it? I don't want to leave the kittens in a dirty bed but I don't want to mess anything up by cleaning everything up for coon since the kittens need the stimulation from the mom cleaning them. Do I clean or do I wait? Is it normal for new moms to slack on the cleaning at first? could she not be cleaning because she is still going to have more kittens and doesn't have the energy to clean? She seems to have energy but not much and when she does lay down she purrs and has started panting lightly again. She is still plump and I think I may have felt another baby in her belly but I'm not sure.

It does sound like she still may have another kitten in there. A long break like this in between kittens can happen, and it is okay so long as she is acting normally. However, if she starts bleeding heavily, or starts panting/pushing for more than 30 minutes then you need to get her to a vet ASAP. Be sure you have the local after hours/ER vet number and location handy just in case!

It can take some Queens a day or so to fully settle into "mom mode" and get their routine down. I do advise changing the bedding if it gets really yucky (like you did after delivery) or in any case at least once a day. Her skittishness is also normal- this is why it's best to confine her to just one room that is relatively dark and quiet. The more sounds and things she hears the more scared she will be. And, if she fears her babies are in danger she WILL start moving them. Make sure you have blocked off any places you don't want her to go (such as under the bed) and have another nesting box set up in the room so she has a safe alternative. 

As of now you should have an initial weight on each of the babies- try to weigh them at the same time again tomorrow for the most accurate measure. They should be either nursing or sleeping pretty much all the time. Happy, healthy babies are quiet ones! If they are crying excessively it means something is wrong- they are not getting enough to eat, are cold, or aren't being eliminated are the most common problems. Mom should be licking each ones rear end to get them to go to the bathroom so keep an eye out and make sure she is doing this. YOu shouldn't be seeing any poop from the kittens- when she eliminates them she will ingest it and they aren't old enough to use their bowels on their own. You might see a little bit here and there but nothing substantial. 

In general, other than weights, these first two weeks I don't interact with the babies much. I give the Queens lots of attention and praise but pretty much let them do their thing. While intervention is sometimes necessary do whatever you can to get her to do it on her own first. Once you intervene it can be hard to go back and you risk having to hand rear them. Unless she is blatantly ignoring them I would try and keep things calm and quiet and see if she doesn't figure it all out within the next day or so. 

If you are concerned about her possibly still laboring or something seems totally off with one of the kittens don't wait for advice here- get them to a vet ASAP! Otherwise, keep posting questions as they come up and we will do our best to answer them! 

Congrats on the new additions! 

Thanks, for the advise. She has been acting normal and the panting/purring has stopped but her belly is still kind of hard and I think I feel another lump but not sure if it is a kitten. It has been over 24 hours since the last one was born but she doesn't seem to be in labor anymore. I'll probably end up taking her over to the vet just to make sure. She seems to be normal, using the litter box, eating and drinking, and as soon as I go in the room she perks right up and looks for the attention. I am not handling the kittens, besides a little pet on the head, but I am leaving them right alone and making sure that no on else goes in there with them. Coon seems very relaxed and happy. The kittens are nursing almost none stop, and I don't hear anything from them unless she leaves them for a minute to go eat or drink. All in all I am pretty sure that everything is going good, she doesn't look to be bleeding anymore, she was a little bit yesterday but that area looks about normal too. 

I'm not sure if what I found was kitten poop or not, but there was green poop looking stuff that I cleaned out, but I haven't seen anymore. She seems to have started cleaning them now. I was thinking that maybe since she had all 5 in under 4 hours she was just tired which is why she may not have been cleaning.

Once again thanks again for all the help.

I have been doing some research online and am wondering is it possiable that she could have kittens that are different ages? Since they have two horns could one have kittens and the others have kittens that a few days younger? Almost like two litters?

Tasha Porter said:

 
Thanks, for the advise. She has been acting normal and the panting/purring has stopped but her belly is still kind of hard and I think I feel another lump but not sure if it is a kitten. It has been over 24 hours since the last one was born but she doesn't seem to be in labor anymore. I'll probably end up taking her over to the vet just to make sure. 

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I probably would too just to be on the safe side and save yourself the stress of wondering. Were you there for the labor? I.e. did you see her deliver a placenta for each kitten? If not that is what you may also be feeling is a retained placenta. This can quickly become infected and problematic so a vet visit is your best bet. 

So glad to hear it sounds like everything else is going well. You are very right that she was likely exhausted and it took her some time to get the strength back to properly care for her babies, which is not uncommon at all.

It's also possible that the green thing you saw was some piece of the laboring process (her mucus plug, a piece of afterbirth, or part of a cord or something). I wouldn't fret over it unless you start seeing it more frequently. 

Tasha Porter said:

I have been doing some research online and am wondering is it possiable that she could have kittens that are different ages? Since they have two horns could one have kittens and the others have kittens that a few days younger? Almost like two litters?

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So this question has come up before. I was under the impression that yes, a Queen could be pregnant by two different males so long as the matings happened in relatively quick succession. However, another member (pretty sure it was the genius MaewKaew) said that no, it was not possible. And she cited veterinary articles. So, I'm not sure and therefore deferring to MaewKaew's expertise. I don't think it is possible. Which is why if she starts bleeding heavily (some like you saw yesterday is totally normal but more than that isn't), starts acting lethargic, or is pushing like she's in labor you will want to get her to a vet ASAP! 

Keep up the good work! The first few days are by far the scariest. It's gets easier (though a lot more crazy) as time goes on!

Tasha Porter said:

I have been doing some research online and am wondering is it possiable that she could have kittens that are different ages? Since they have two horns could one have kittens and the others have kittens that a few days younger? Almost like two litters?

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From what I understand,  that would be very unlikely / impossible  for a queen to have 2  kittens a few days younger.   but it may be possible -- but rare -- for her to have some a few weeks apart in age.  

Usually an apparent difference is probably due to a developmental issue rather than a real age difference.

Re   the possibility of kittens being several days different in age:    In The Cat Breeders' Handbook,  it includes a quote by feline specialist vet Susan Little:   " All the eggs are released at once.  This happens when the stimulation from breeding is enough to trigger release of a hormone from the brain called LH.  A spike in the LH level causes all the mature eggs in the ovaries to be released at one time.  Sperm only lives about 24 hours after ejaculation,  so at the most, kittens don't vary by more than 24 hours gestational age (and that's not enough difference to appreciate).  

All the kitten in the litter have the same gestational age.  Whenever breeders see a poorly developed kitten born, they assume it is younger than its littermates.  But instead,  what happens is this kitten is the same age but for some reason did not develop normally along with its littermates.  This is a common misconception..... .

   "  All the eggs are released at the same time,  and the eggs only live for about 24 hours.  If two toms breed the queen within that time frame,  the litter can have two sires.  But the whole litter is no more than 24 hours different in age,  which is insignificant."   

However, it  may be possible  though it would be rare  for a cat to carry 2 litters  with gestational ages weeks apart ( called superfetation)   it would  depending on whether  a queen  had a  fertile estrus cycle during pregnancy,  because it is in the proestrus phase of the cycle ( a short phase right before full-blown "heat"  ) that follicle-stimulating hormone causes new follicles, and it's in the follicles that ova (eggs)  are produced.     It  is abnormal  but  not super rare that  a pregnant cat could  go in heat.    When it does happen it is usually in the middle third  of pregnancy.  There seems to be disagreement  among  experts as to whether that's truly a fertile cycle and she actually could get  pregnant;  it seems at least it is rare for these cycles to be fertile  .  ( and according to Clinical Endocrinology of Dogs and Cats,  by A. Rijnberk & H.S. Kooistra,  has never been proven and apparent differences could be due to arrested development of some fetuses;   

   But another  textbook says it is possible but rare.   And there's anecdotal evidence of it from cat owners.... , people have told that their cat had kittens then 6 weeks later had another litter! 

Excellent explanation! So, possible to have multiple sires so long as the both matings happen within 24 hours. So yes, your kittens could have different daddies, but they would still be approx. the same age. 

Thanks again. She seems to be acting fine but this morning she had hid the kittens. I think its probably because the kids were up in the other rooms making a lot of noise. I'm keeping a close eye on her and the kittens but mainly just letting her do her thing. Thanks again for all the advise. Will probably still take her and babies to vet just to be safe.

Unfortunately den moves are common for almost any Queen- it just depends how soon she starts. Blocking off areas you don't want her to go and making new, attractive alternative nests is your best bet. 

Do keep us posted! 

 I do want to clarify that, as EB24 has said,  it is possible for  a queen to interrupt labor after having just part of the litter ,  and then hours, or even in some cases a couple days later, she resumes labor and gives birth to the rest of the litter.    

But if that happens it does not mean the kittens born 2 days later  were also conceived  2 days later. It's  just that for some reason (generally related to exhaustion or stress) she took a break in the middle of having them.  

 And  also as EB24 said, it's pretty normal for her to move the kittens, it goes back to the wild instinct.     and your best bet is to block off anywhere you don't want her to move them  ( places where you could not see or reach , or that are in some way risky)  and make 1 or  2 alternatives.  doesn't have to be anything elaborate. 

If she moves them to a less satisfactory spot   I would use that chance to change the bedding in the nest and try moving them back in it and hope she's OK with it.   If she seems to think they're not hidden enough,  try putting a cover over half the top of the box and put the kittens back in, under the covered part.     or try putting the whole nest in the closet ( but with the door partly open). 

I ended up getting a pack and play, one that my daughter used when she was little, put blankets in the bottom with a large blanket over most of the top. she seems to be pretty content in that for now. I have been weighing the kittens and they are gaining which is good. 

Thanks again for everything. She hasn't seemed to have gone back into labor and its been 4 days now so I'm not sure. Her belly isn't as big but still a little bigger than normal and there is a lump so I'm just keeping an eye on her for now.