What (commercial/prescription) foods have worked/have you tried for your IBD cats?

LDG said:

peaches08 said:

In addition to iodine, the reason for light salt is to provide sodium and potassium balance that the cat would have gotten if the animal were whole with blood. Again, the premixes solve all that for us!

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Yes... but the Alnutrin contains no potassium - maybe ground turkey doesn't have enough?

We need mschauer!

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Alnutrin includes iodized salt and iodized salt contains potassium. Correction: I guess it is only the Lite Iodized salt that has potassium:

http://www.shopwell.com/morton-iodized-salt/seasonings/p/2460001043

FYI:

1/4 tsp Morton Table salt contains 0 potassium, 590 mg sodium and 0 iodine

1/4 tsp of Morton Iodized salt contains 0 potassium, 590 mg sodium and 68 mcg iodine

1/4 tsp of Morton Salt Substitute contains 610 mg potassium, 0 sodium and 0 iodine.

1/4 tsp of Morton Lite Iodized salt contains 360 mg potassium, 290 mg sodium and 60 mcg iodine.

I use the Lite Iodized salt. 

Wait - so if someone wants to adapt this recipe from Dr. Strombeck:

Turkey Diet

6 ounces (weight before cooking) ground turkey meat (171 grams)
1/2 egg, large, chicken, whole, cooked
1 teaspoon vegetable (canola) oil (5 grams)
1/8 teaspoon salt substitute-potassium chloride
1/3 teaspoon bone meal powder (2 grams)
1 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

using the Alnutrin with calcium, what needs to be replaced?

Clearly the vitamin-mineral tablet and the bone meal powder.

But should the salt-substitute be included or not? :dk:

LDG said:

Wait - so if someone wants to adapt this recipe from Dr. Strombeck:

Turkey Diet

6 ounces (weight before cooking) ground turkey meat (171 grams)
1/2 egg, large, chicken, whole, cooked
1 teaspoon vegetable (canola) oil (5 grams)
1/8 teaspoon salt substitute-potassium chloride
1/3 teaspoon bone meal powder (2 grams)
1 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

using the Alnutrin with calcium, what needs to be replaced?

Clearly the vitamin-mineral tablet and the bone meal powder.

But should the salt-substitute be included or not?

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I would include it. I would like to verify that Alnutrin uses iodized salt rather than lite iodized salt though.

Thank you!

Oh my, I wish I would've found this thread earlier, I have some of the same questions and was contemplating a homemade cooked diet. I don't have time to read through the thread until later tonight, but if canned is still a consideration, here's some that I've considered:

By Nature stew line (duck, rabbit, venison available)

Wild Calling (duck, pheasant, rabbit, buffalo available)

Hound and Gatos (lamb, buffalo available)

Addiction (duck, rabbit, brushtail, buffalo available)

Franksmom said:

Has anyone used the TC feline supplement? (http://tcfeline.com). I was going to get the one with freeze dried chicken liver added. I am thinking of trying to add some cooked food to Frank's diet because he is so limited to what I can feed him. I was thinking about roasting or using a slowcooker because he loves gravy? Would I add salt?

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I wish I knew you were interested earlier this summer! I had a sealed bag that I wasn't going to use. TC Feline has some newsletters that discuss using the product with cooked food as a preparation for going to raw. What was it you wanted to know abou TC Feline?

I have not disappeared from this thread...I am processing. 

Thanks to you ALL for writing in about a balanced, homemade cooked diet as an option for my cats. I'm working through the details and will continue to monitor your excellent responses about the example recipe.

Originally Posted by Raintyger  


Oh my, I wish I would've found this thread earlier, I have some of the same questions and was contemplating a homemade cooked diet. I don't have time to read through the thread until later tonight, but if canned is still a consideration, here's some that I've considered:

By Nature stew line (duck, rabbit, venison available)

Wild Calling (duck, pheasant, rabbit, buffalo available)

Hound and Gatos (lamb, buffalo available)

Addiction (duck, rabbit, brushtail, buffalo available)

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These are ones I was looking at, too. I've tried Wild Calling since it was available at my local pet store. Unfortunately, the cats (all three) turned their nose up at the rabbit and buffalo. Don't go by my cats, though; they've been awfully finicky lately. I want to try the Hound & Gatos and Addiction, but PFD only ships by the case (what if they don't like it?). I was going to order Addiction direct from their website since they have the option of only purchasing one, but I was concerned about the slow shipping across the country in the summer. This wouldn't be as much of an issue for you since you are in CA.

mschauer said:

LDG said:

using the Alnutrin with calcium, what needs to be replaced?

Clearly the vitamin-mineral tablet and the bone meal powder.

But should the salt-substitute be included or not?

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I would include it. I would like to verify that Alnutrin uses iodized salt rather than lite iodized salt though.

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Well I think I'm going to have to reverse myself. According to the Alnutrin web site:

Sodium, Potassium and Chloride

Are added as food grade sodium chloride and potassium chloride (table salt). The country of origin for both is USA.

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Iodine

Is added as potassium iodide. The country of origin is USA.

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Sodium choride, potassium chloride and potassium iodide all add up to Morton Lite Iodized salt. I think the "iodized salt" in their ingredients is actually lite iodized salt.

So, I don't think it is necessary to add a salt substitute to a recipe if Alnutrin is used.

GoHolistic said:

I have not disappeared from this thread...I am processing. 

Thanks to you ALL for writing in about a balanced, homemade cooked diet as an option for my cats. I'm working through the details and will continue to monitor your excellent responses about the example recipe.

These are ones I was looking at, too. I've tried Wild Calling since it was available at my local pet store. Unfortunately, the cats (all three) turned their nose up at the rabbit and buffalo. Don't go by my cats, though; they've been awfully finicky lately. I want to try the Hound & Gatos and Addiction, but PFD only ships by the case (what if they don't like it?). I was going to order Addiction direct from their website since they have the option of only purchasing one, but I was concerned about the slow shipping across the country in the summer. This wouldn't be as much of an issue for you since you are in CA.

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Send me a PM with what brands and flavors you want to try. I've just been through this with someone else. I have access to some of these foods and can ship single cans via priority mail (2-3 days) with reimbursement.

Raintyger said:

Oh my, I wish I would've found this thread earlier, I have some of the same questions and was contemplating a homemade cooked diet. I don't have time to read through the thread until later tonight, but if canned is still a consideration, here's some that I've considered:

By Nature stew line (duck, rabbit, venison available)
Wild Calling (duck, pheasant, rabbit, buffalo available)
Hound and Gatos (lamb, buffalo available)
Addiction (duck, rabbit, brushtail, buffalo available)


I wish I knew you were interested earlier this summer! I had a sealed bag that I wasn't going to use. TC Feline has some newsletters that discuss using the product with cooked food as a preparation for going to raw. What was it you wanted to know abou TC Feline?

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I was wondering if you needed to add salt?

Franksmom said:

I was wondering if you needed to add salt?

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The recipes on their web site call for lite iodized salt.

mschauer said:

Franksmom said:

I was wondering if you needed to add salt?

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The recipes on their web site call for lite iodized salt.

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Dang it! I was looking at the recipes that *don't* use their premix. The recipes with their premix do not call for adding any kind of salt.

Sorry!

I have a cat with possible IBD at least with long standing digestive issues.  With commercial foods he does better with the ones that have rice in them then with the grain free.  With the Alnutrin plus calcium, if I add some rice do I include as part of the weight of the meat or just add it to the recipe?

Denice said:

I have a cat with possible IBD at least with long standing digestive issues.  With commercial foods he does better with the ones that have rice in them then with the grain free.  With the Alnutrin plus calcium, if I add some rice do I include as part of the weight of the meat or just add it to the recipe?

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I would use their online calculator:

http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/RecipeBasicnonmetric.htm

One of the ingredients you can add is cooked white rice.

Franksmom said:

I was wondering if you needed to add salt?

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TC Feline was supposed to be a complete supplement, so no. You were only supposed to add raw meat and, depending on which package you bought, possibly raw liver.

Raintyger said:

TC Feline was supposed to be a complete supplement, so no. You were only supposed to add raw meat and, depending on which package you bought, possibly raw liver.

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Great thanks for the info!

I found this information on cooking the meat on the TCfeline site: http://tcfeline.com/2010/08/16/cooked-meat/

I personally don't think it HAS to be cooked that long. If you're comfortable eating your meat medium-rare or something, I see no reason not to feed it that way to the cats.

For anyone that still wants to offer chunks of meat vs ground meat, I do think a very low temperature, long bake would also work. Just make sure to add back all the juices and fat that cook off (just portion as evenly as possible). ...Or use this method and then run everything through a grinder or food processor (probably easier once cooled).

And add vitamins/supplements/premixes after the cooking and cooling.

I think the key to cooking homemade cooked diets is using time vs. temperature - the lower the temp, the better preserved the nutrients will be.

That's a good find Laurie!

I do have to take exception to this statelment however:

Many vitamins don’t survive heating, and most molecular structure of proteins and fatty acids change when heated. Heat breaks molecular bonds, and essential long chain amino acid or fatty acids can be lost.

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I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. Here is a link to the USDA Table of Nutrient Retention Factors:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/12354500/Data/retn/retn06.pdf

Cooking certainly affects some nutrients more than others but none are completely destroyed by cooking. And I think the other statements about the effect of heating mostly reflect the authors bias. I don't want to take the thread too far off topic but if anyone is interested I can provide a study that shows even obligate carnivores are able to digest cooked meat more efficiently (from a net energy gain perspective) than raw meat although cats were not included in the study. Developing the ability to cook our food is believed to be one of the major milestones in allowing humans to evolve into the advanced creatures that we are. 

 I'm  answering this a bit late,  but my IBD cat did well on the Nature's Variety Instinct Venison.  he ate some canned and some raw.    

I just remembered a thread we had discussing carrageenan. Finnlacey (who runs http://www.ibdkitties.net) included some links in the thread to why IBD kitties should avoid carrageenan. In fact, if I remember correctly, carrageenan has been linked to causing IBD? :dk:

Either way, for some cats, you may find that they do better without carrageenan, especially if they're IBD kitties. I know otto's Mazy wasn't ever diagnosed as having IBD, but she did have a problem with chronic vomiting and digestive trouble, and there was a nice improvement once carrageenan was removed from her diet.

Anyway, the thread has a bunch of info on carrageenan, if anyone's interested, but members also spent quite a bit of time identifying foods without it, and they're scattered throughout the thread (including foods available in Europe, thanks to jcat).

Thread link: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/246168/the-truth-about-carrageenan

A thread about otto's cats since having carrageenan eliminated from the diet: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/254183/since-eliminating-carrageenan-from-her-diet

And there was some confusion about the By Nature product line. The By Nature Organics foods do not contain carrageenan: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/251402/by-nature-organics-no-carrageenan

I also looked up the Wild Calling foods the other day as I hadn't heard of them before. They have no carrageenan; they use guar gum instead.

Also, Tiki cat now has a chicken flavor that has a very simple ingredient list and no thickeners at all in it, if your kitties don't mind "chunky" food (it's not pate style).

Thanks LDG. I remember reading about carrageenan. I was trying to avoid it, also. As stated in my original post, it's so difficult trying to find commercial foods that meet all the criteria.

I have yet to try the By Nature Organics line...will give it a shot. Sebastian used to LOVE the old By Nature formulas (not organics), but they changed the formula and the texture is much clumpier. He hated it. I emailed the company and complained, of course.

Speaking of Wild Calling, I have some information that is on topic, but also a little off topic. I really want Sebastian to eat rabbit to see if it helps with his digestive issues (on topic), but I'm confused about how to transition him (off topic). When I originally put down the Wild Calling rabbit canned, I put it down in its 100% form with a little water added (Sebastian likes his food soupy). He walked away from it numerous times. I bought another can and tried again. Except this time I gave him 1/2 of a 3 oz. can of his current favorite (Wellness Chicken & Herring) with 1/8 can of the Wild Calling rabbit mixed in thoroughly. He ate the ENTIRE thing. Yipee! So my question is, do I give him the Wellness every day and gradually increase the rabbit? My cats do get tired of the same thing all the time, so I hesitate to use this method.

mschauer said:

I don't want to take the thread too far off topic but if anyone is interested I can provide a study that shows even obligate carnivores are able to digest cooked meat more efficiently (from a net energy gain perspective) than raw meat although cats were not included in the study. Developing the ability to cook our food is believed to be one of the major milestones in allowing humans to evolve into the advanced creatures that we are.

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I'm interested! I'm looking to start with a cooked or partially cooked diet. Sebastian is like one of those kids that is sick all the time. He was tested negative for all the usual (FIV, leukemia, etc.), but I hesitate to start him on raw right now.

maewkaew said:

 I'm  answering this a bit late,  but my IBD cat did well on the Nature's Variety Instinct Venison.  he ate some canned and some raw.  

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Thanks maewkaew. I haven't tried the NV Venison yet. I've tried the EVO Venison, but they weren't crazy about it. I think Boo vomited it (seems red meat doesn't agree with him).