What (commercial/prescription) foods have worked/have you tried for your IBD cats?

GoHolistic said:

Out of curiosity, I want to know what you think about the Great Life dry cat food I linked to in my original post. I know most of you don't feed dry food for many good reasons, but just comparatively speaking. Here's the link again: www.doctorsfinest.com/product_p/gfccf.htm. It uses chicken, so obviously this is not a good option for cats with a chicken allergy or intolerance. It doesn't use potatoes or peas as the starch, a great option for cats with allergies to those. It does concern me that the fat content is pretty high compared the amount of protein. And of course, carbs are high, but that is expected with dry.

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It looks like a fairly good food. I think it is pretty similar to the Nature's Variety LI which also uses tapioca as a grain but this food as some more fancy stuff like freeze dried pumpkin which I think is meant to appeal to humans lol

Franksmom said:

Has anyone used the TC feline supplement? (http://tcfeline.com). I was going to get the one with freeze dried chicken liver added. I am thinking of trying to add some cooked food to Frank's diet because he is so limited to what I can feed him. I was thinking about roasting or using a slowcooker because he loves gravy? Would I add salt?

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I used it when I was waiting for my grinder to come in. My cats LOVED this stuff, even tore open a bag and drug it around my kitchen!

Franksmom said:

Has anyone used the TC feline supplement? (http://tcfeline.com). I was going to get the one with freeze dried chicken liver added. I am thinking of trying to add some cooked food to Frank's diet because he is so limited to what I can feed him. I was thinking about roasting or using a slowcooker because he loves gravy? Would I add salt?

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You should post this as a separate question in the raw food forum, maybe? I think there are members that have used it, but they may not be reading this thread? :dk:

...and my understanding is that salt is rarely added for the sodium. I don't know the ingredients of the TCfeline offhand - the one in Canada is now slightly different than the one in the U.S. My understanding is that they have excellent customer service, so you may just want to contact them to ask about the recipe?

GoHolistic said:

Thanks for all the info everybody! If I try a cooked diet, I'll buy ground turkey...assuming not ground turkey breast, but the regular one that has a little more fat. I'll add a premix such as Alnutrin with Calcium calculated to the weight of the [raw] meat/organs. Since Boo has chronic constipation, do you recommend the Alnutrin with Eggshell Calcium? If I add this, do I still need the egg, vegetable oil, bone meal and salt substitute as stated in the original recipe?

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Can you post the ingredients/directions of the recipe you're looking at?

I can confidently say you'd need the egg and vegetable oil, and the calcium carbonate and minerals in the Alnutrin would REPLACE the bone meal as the source of calcium and other minerals. If you need a low phosphorus diet, then you'd want the Alnutrin with eggshell. The salt, I don't know yet, but I suspect not, as it's usually (not always) there for iodine. For instance, Dr. Pierson's recipe calls for lite salt, instead of iodized salt, because the rest of the ingredients provide enough sodium, but it's a source of iodine.

LDG said:

Can you post the ingredients/directions of the recipe you're looking at?

I can confidently say you'd need the egg and vegetable oil, and the calcium carbonate and minerals in the Alnutrin would REPLACE the bone meal as the source of calcium and other minerals. If you need a low phosphorus diet, then you'd want the Alnutrin with eggshell. The salt, I don't know yet, but I suspect not, as it's usually (not always) there for iodine. For instance, Dr. Pierson's recipe calls for lite salt, instead of iodized salt, because the rest of the ingredients provide enough sodium, but it's a source of iodine.

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Here's the recipe from the website mentioned above (www.dogcathomeprepareddiet.com/feeding_a_normal_dog_or_cat.html#cats).

Turkey Diet

6 ounces (weight before cooking) ground turkey meat (171 grams)
1/2 egg, large, chicken, whole, cooked
1 teaspoon vegetable (canola) oil (5 grams)
1/8 teaspoon salt substitute-potassium chloride
1/3 teaspoon bone meal powder (2 grams)
1 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

So the Alnutrin would replace the bone meal powder and the multivitamin?

The Alnutrin would replace the bone meal and the vitamin-mineral tablet ONLY if you include 0.3 - 0.6ounces of chicken or beef liver. (Making liver 5% - 10% of the total amount of meat used. The measurement should also be before cooking, as the meat is the weight before cooking).

I've never used the Alnutrin with calcium (or eggshell), so I don't have any here to weigh to figure out how much would be used for that amount of food. But the way to figure out how much Alnutrin to use is to take the recommended amount for X pounds of meat/organ on the package, which is usually provided in a weight, not a volume. So you need to be able to weigh (in grams, down to tenths of a gram) that amount to be able to adjust it. Unless a scoop is included with the Alnutrin - which sometimes there is. In that case, you could measure how many teaspoons is in the scoop, and then figure out the right volume for a smaller amount of food. I know how much Alnutrin to use if you're already providing the calcium in another form. :lol3:

One thing I would do FOR SURE is add back any of the juice/fat/water that's in the pot/pan you use to cook the turkey.

And as the recipe is using the salt substitute as a source of potassium, not sodium, I'd definitely include it. :nod:

But yeah - for a cat, I'd rather use the Alnutrin with calcium than bone meal and a "vitamin mineral tablet." OR I'd include some taurine.

In addition to iodine, the reason for light salt is to provide sodium and potassium balance that the cat would have gotten if the animal were whole with blood. Again, the premixes solve all that for us! All you need to add with Alnutrin with calcium is meat and liver. TC Feline you add meat, and depending on which one you get you add liver or it's already included. Makes things so much easier in the beginning!

I agree with LDG about adding the water back in. Some stuff that may have gotten cooked out gets put right back in.

The main concern I have with the recipes mentioned from the dog-cat homemade diet site other than taurine is fat. Cats need fat.

peaches08 said:

In addition to iodine, the reason for light salt is to provide sodium and potassium balance that the cat would have gotten if the animal were whole with blood. Again, the premixes solve all that for us!

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Yes... but the Alnutrin contains no potassium - maybe ground turkey doesn't have enough? :dk:

We need mschauer!

So I could take a recipe like this one and cook the meat and then added the supplement after cooking and the meat has cooled down some

.1 bag (or 40 g) of Alnutrin with Calcium (Pre-packed)

2 3/4 cups (or 655 g) of water. This amount can be adjusted to achieve desired consistency.
Mix lightly, then add
6 lb (or 2765 g) of ground raw chicken meat (boneless, skinless)
8 oz (or 218 g) of ground raw chicken liver
Mix well. Divide into storage containers and freeze unused portion.

This one doesn't have any fat added.  Also if I were to want to try something like lamb can I use chicken liver.  There really isn't a need for the meat and the liver to match is there.

LDG said:

Yes... but the Alnutrin contains no potassium - maybe ground turkey doesn't have enough? :dk:

We need mschauer!

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Potassium is listed on the know what you feed website...?

As an ingredient in the Alnutrin with calcium? I'm not seeing that. This is what I found...

http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/alnutrin_with_calcium.html
Ingredients: Egg yolk powder, calcium carbonate, taurine, iodized salt, vitamin E, iron amino acid chelate, copper citrate, manganese amino acid chelate, zinc oxide, vitamin D3, folic acid, vitamin B12, vitamin B1.

On the tab that says supplements. Maybe someone should contact them.

Denice said:

So I could take a recipe like this one and cook the meat and then added the supplement after cooking and the meat has cooled down some


1 bag (or 40 g) of Alnutrin with Calcium (Pre-packed)
2 3/4 cups (or 655 g) of water. This amount can be adjusted to achieve desired consistency.
Mix lightly, then add
6 lb (or 2765 g) of ground raw chicken meat (boneless, skinless)
8 oz (or 218 g) of ground raw chicken liver
Mix well. Divide into storage containers and freeze unused portion.


This one doesn't have any fat added.  Also if I were to want to try something like lamb can I use chicken liver.  There really isn't a need for the meat and the liver to match is there.

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Is that a recipe from the http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com website? Because I don't know what the correct amount of Alnutrin would be.

40g doesn't sound like much - for 6 pounds of meat. ?????? It's been a while since I used Alnutrin of any kind though, so don't go by my memory!

And no, there is NO need to match the source of the liver to the source of the protein. You can definitely use the chicken liver.

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Just to be clear, the main issue in using a supplement that includes calcium instead of bone in a recipe is that

A) bone has other minerals in it apart from calcium, so the supplement should address that;

B) The calcium in the bone has to properly balance the phosphorus in the meat.

Cats have a need for a certain level of calcium (prevalent in bone but not muscles), and certain level of phosphorus (prevalent in bone, muscles, and especially organs), but AS IMPORTANT is the ratio of the two.

Premixes that include calcium have already ensured that ratio is proper (if used correctly. :lol3: )

Note that there isn't enough variation in proteins to need adjustment if you use beef vs turkey thigh vs chicken breast or chicken thigh or whatever - but there IS a rather large difference between secreting organs and muscle meats, so if a recipe calls for organ meats, it cannot be omitted - not just because of the calciumhosphorus ratio, but also because that little bit of organ in any recipe adds a LOT of nutrients. They're very nutrition-packed little packages. :lol3:

Finally, if a premix is meant for JUST MEAT or is meant for MEAT AND ORGANS, it's important to make sure you use just meat, or meat & organs, or the vitamins and minerals provided by the premix won't be properly matched to the ingredients.

Yes it is.  I'm terrible with links, they don't work half the time.  

mschauer ran the cooked diet for me to make sure it was complete. . .let me find the e-mails and I'll see exactly how we ran it. . .

peaches08 said:

On the tab that says supplements. Maybe someone should contact them.

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Wow - that is weird. Here are screen shots.

The main "supplements" page:



The "Alnutrin with calcium" page:

OK, we ran the chicken recipe but I bet the turkey recipe isn't much different. The best results came from:

the recipe as posted

PLUS 1 ounce each of chicken liver and sardines

PLUS 1000 mg of taurine and 1/5 of a Centrum tablet (any one-a-day vitamin brand should do) OR 8 NuCat tablets (they have taurine already).

MINUS the salt substitute (because the vitamins have potassium and iodine already)

This is for the usual recipe amount of 6-8 ounces of meat. If you make more than that you have to adjust the supplements accordingly. I usually make several pounds at once and freeze it.

(Note: the recipe made exactly as listed on that website IS adequate. We just made it. . .better :tongue2

Denice said:

Yes it is.  I'm terrible with links, they don't work half the time.  

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I just saw it there. :lol3: Like I said - don't trust my memory. :anon:

I see absolutely no reason not to use that recipe. You might not want to cook the meat and liver to death.

The one thing I would do is add some taurine above and beyond what is in the Alnutrin. Only because cooking does deplete it - and by how much varies by method. The table in this paper has info on how much taurine is in what, based on what method of cooking. I don't suggest anyone use it to figure out the actual amount of taurine (though obviously you can) - but it IS quite instructive as re: cooking methods. Taurine is water soluble, so anything that minimizes the use of water also has less impact on the taurine lost. http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmb/aal/pdfs/spitze.pdf

Taurine is safe to supplement because it IS water soluble, and the animal excretes excess. Although how much taurine is available to a cat depends on a LOT of factors, based on this piece http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-how-much-taurine-should-i-add I'd supplement with about 60mg of taurine per ounce of food fed, just to be on the safe side.

Willowy said:

OK, we ran the chicken recipe but I bet the turkey recipe isn't much different. The best results came from:

the recipe as posted

PLUS 1 ounce each of chicken liver and sardines

PLUS 1000 mg of taurine and 1/5 of a Centrum tablet (any one-a-day vitamin brand should do) OR 8 NuCat tablets (they have taurine already).

MINUS the salt substitute (because the vitamins have potassium and iodine already)

This is for the usual recipe amount of 6-8 ounces of meat. If you make more than that you have to adjust the supplements accordingly. I usually make several pounds at once and freeze it.

(Note: the recipe made exactly as listed on that website IS adequate. We just made it. . .better :tongue2

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No matter what recipe is used, I would still add taurine (unless using the NuCat tablets, which apparently have taurine), only because the USDA database doesn't track it, so even mschauer's analysis can't know for sure whether or not there is adequate taurine - unless we add adequate taurine. :lol3:

The Alnutrin has taurine - but again, I believe it is meant to make raw meat complete & balanced, and cooking will deplete the amount of available taurine. (Sorry, I know I sound like a broken record, but taurine is so important to cats!).

Oh, yeah, I would always add taurine. . .I think if you read some of the technical bits on the website, he says that he intended for you to use a cat vitamin that contains taurine, and if you use a human supplement you should also add taurine, but it really should say that right in the recipe :/.