HELP! two week old kittens losing weight WITH nursing momcat

Hi everyone!

I am new here and English is not my native language so I am sorry for any mistakes I will try to explain the best I can and give as much details as possible. I am really desperate for any good advice, so if you know someone with real experience please ask them what the cause could be or what to do.

Two weeks ago, ons saturday 27th of july, my tyraditional siamese gave birth for her frist time to 5 healthy kittens. It are 4 males and one female. There are two smaller ones and two bigger ones, which includes the female kitten. Mommy did everything herself and nursed them right away. Eveything seemed to go fine until the kittens started to gain less weight at day 8. They gained between 12 and 22 grams the first week and then suddenly dropped to only 2 to 7 grams. Or even no weigth gain! I did not overhandle them and the mothercat adores me, so it's not due stress.

I immidiately called the vet for an emergency appointment because I thought mommy didn't had enough milk. This seemed to be indeed the problem and she got Viyo and vetinairy canned wetfood for recovering and/or sick cats. Her milkproduction went up and they gained more but still not as much as the first week. I went to the vet on monday 5th of august.

But yesterday one kitten lost weight, three kittens stayed around the same weight and the biggest gained 10 grams. So I am sure mommy has milk and it should be enough for all of them, she has 6 working niples and 2 are left untouched so thas says enough for me.

But now comes the funny part. The kittens are very content! They sleep, they nurse, they start walking, they are not lethargic or weak. The smallest one fightest the hardest if I try to feed him with the syringe and what a power he has! I absolutely dont want to bottlefeed them of fear to interfere between mommy and kids and slow milkproduction down now that I've upped it. I only did this because I was scarred of dehydration and they are not btw. But they didn't want to so it made no change after all. All these horrorstories on the internet are making me insane...

The only option left, could it be intestial parasites or worms that causes the weightstall/loss? Because they seem so content, not crying all the time or anything strange like that. They do crie but only when mommys enter the kittenbox. Then they latch on and fall asleep after 10 to 15 minutes or so. And I didn't have chance to see any poo because mommy does a great job of taking care of them.

Please, has anyone expierenced or hear somthing similair like my story? Thank you so much already!

ps: I searched the web in 3 languages and I' ve been to the vet and found nu good help or answer, personal experiences are just worth gold!

Interesting.   Had you dewormed mom from round worms?  (or if she is indoor only).

What food do you normally give the mom?  At this moment you do have this veterinary food, but normally?   

Is salomonella in eggs a problem in your country?  If not, raw egg yolk (egg yellow) with moms food is very nourishing.      Boiled egg yellow is surely also good, but all these wonder recipes talks about raw yolk...

Which kmr are you supplementing them with?  Do you have possibility to get goat milk - best raw goat milk...     Im not saying goat milk is better than a good kmr, but it may be an interesting alternative sometimes.

Continue to report and thinking aloud!

Good luck!

  Welcome to our Forums!

Yes, mom is indoor only, as are my other cats. And they all have been dewormed before she got pregnant by pills I got by the vetinarian.

I give them a mix of Royal canin indoor longhair, hair&coat and dental. The last 4 weeks of mommys pregnancy she also got royal canin mother and babycat and still does while nursing. I have indoor longhair because the rest of my cats are ragdolls. 

I live in the Netherlands and as far as I  know there is no salmonella in our egss, at least I don't hear it often that someone got ill. I could try to give her this as an extra treat but not on a daily base, I guess.

We use KMR from the brand Trovet, also bought at the vet when we went last week. I don't know where to get goats milk right away but I am pretty sure I can find it in the store tomorrow. Thanks for answering and indeed, thinking out loud may hold the solution!

Hi Furretz.  

 Intestinal parasites can sometimes be a reason  for kittens to stop gaining as much around 2 or 3 weeks old.   So  in this situation I would consider de-worming the kittens with a de-worming medicine safe in young kittens.

One example of a way they could have worms is if the queen contracted roundworms at any time    ( for example if a mouse got in the house and she  ate the mouse)   and if not quickly treated,  the roundworms can get encysted in her mammary glands .  They stay there and wait until she is nursing  then come out in the milk.  It is very  hard  to get rid of them if this happens and  de-worming the mom before breeding won't guarantee  it.    

It's also possible they might have some other kind of parasites.

http://www.hdw-inc.com/glop.htm       Here are some recipes for "kitten glop"  that you can give the queen  and if kittens continue to have poor weight gain you can also could try to supplement the kittens . 

Mother's milk is obviously best for them if she has enough milk.   

Do you  have breeding mentors that you can also ask about this?  

Do you weigh them the same time each day, I've found that is very important for accurate weights.

I've had the same issue but not every day. The stray I brought in had 6 kittens and they are all thriving, all content and all alert and playful. Hina (the mother cat) has 6 working nipples as well, the front two are never used. I've only had two kittens lose weight but I get small gains every day or so from one kitten or another.

Some of the nice people here suggested placing the small gaining kittens on the mothers teats more often, I'd put the ones needing more milk on the back teats every few hours or so. This worked most of the time, now the kittens are three weeks old and sometimes just not hungry so they won't always go on a teat.

I noticed with my kittens that a small gain usually followed a big gain the day before, I had one gain 31 grams one day and lose 8 the next which alarmed me at first.

I worry about Hina not producing enough milk as there are six good nipples and six kittens to fight over them but she's been going fine so far. She has a bowl of dry kitten food near her 24/7 and goes through around 2 cans of wet food a day plus kmr twice a day.

Did your vet seem worried about the weight gains and losses? What did your vet suggest you do if the weights aren't going up like they should? I'd keep a close eye on them (which you are doing already ) and maybe place them on the back teats every few hours then if they still aren't gaining like they should get back with your vet. At least you have the kmr in case you need it.

My vet told me that if they are acting normal with no discharge in the eyes, nose and are not dehydrated or crying out often then it might just be that they are not hungry or just had a large bowl movement or urinated a lot. Having said that if something seems off or they continue to lose or gain poorly get in touch with your vet again.

My kittens are doing great and have been ahead of the curve weight wise even with the small gains. I was told they should double in weight at two weeks, have yours doubled in weight yet? If so then they are gaining overall and that's still good. Keep an eye on them and go with your gut, if you feel like something is wrong then it very well could be. I hope they start gaining for you and everyone thrives and grows big and strong, very best of luck!

Your vet might deworm them if they feel it might be the issue so you could bring that up with them as well.

 If she were just seeing an occasional day of less weight gain in a kitten,  it would not really be a concern.    but it sounds like this is not just an occasional glitch,  it's more a trend that the mean daily weight gain has become significantly lower.    

Thanks sugarsandz  for mentioning the advice about making sure the kittens ( particularly the ones who are having low gains or not gaining ) are nursing,  and putting them on to nurse  every few hours preferably on the back nipples (closest to the back legs) usually are the "best"   with the most milk.     

Sometimes  it might help to wait until some of the other kittens are sleeping  ,  then put a smaller kitten on to nurse when they won't be bothered by the others. 

Kittens actually normally should double in weight (or close to that) at one week.    It's not the end of the world if they don't quite make that goal  but ideally that is  what you want to see.        but in these it sounds like they probably did  reach that,  and it was later they started having lower gains.  

Indeed, I immidiately dewormed them all, including mom and my other 2 cats. I have changed al the bedding at the same time ( but I already do this everyday) and washed the litterboxes with Dethol. And I do have a breedermentor I can ask questions at any given time in day and night. She said to me that it can happen sometimes that the weight gain stalls or even lose one day but that I have to look to the overall weigthgain and if the ones losing weight act different from the rest. So far, they don't ,and honestly they look very happy. The ones that lost weight are already trying to walk around and started playing with each other. Luckily, at the moment they are back gaining weight but still not as much as the first week, but as soon as they have reached the three week mark I can slowly start weaning them and eveything will become fine.

Sugarsandz, your reply really helped me out with something I couldn't get my head around! I already tried to give them some alone time with mommy by removing the biggest two for 15 minutes twice a day or change them to backteats, as they are indeed the teats they fight most for. And what happened? Sometimes they didn't want to suckle and were just playing and purring. I tought it wasn't possible for the first 4 weeks that they weren't hungry haha, but it seems it does! This really gives me a good feeling because now I know that mommy has definitely enough milk and they aren't hungry all the time (sooo thats why they didn't cry haha). Now I am almost 100 percent sure that it could be parasites and I have already taken action to deworm and with that deparasite them. 

At the moment they are back gaining weight and the biggest has almost trippled his weight. The biggest kitten doubled his weight at the end of the first week and the smallest doubled his weight by the 9th day, so that is fine I guess. If any changes occur I will immidiately contact my vet again but I hope for the best since everything is fine now. 

Maybe I overreacted or maybe I didn't but they are so fragile that I just could not afford to wait a day longer, I just had to hear more other peoples experiences. And one of the other important things is that I already got a home for every kitten and it would break my heart to tell their future familys that their kitten is sick or even passed away. They all look forward to their new kitten and I mail on regular base with them. There is even one girl who is already waiting since march, that's over a half year! O noo, I really would be heartbroken to tell her bad news but luckily everything is going fine now!

Thanks so much for the help! I will keep you informed if something might change again. Here are some photo's of the sweetiepies (for bigger, much bigger haha, pictures click them)

Furretz said:

Yes, mom is indoor only, as are my other cats. And they all have been dewormed before she got pregnant by pills I got by the vetinarian.

I give them a mix of Royal canin indoor longhair, hair&coat and dental. The last 4 weeks of mommys pregnancy she also got royal canin mother and babycat and still does while nursing. I have indoor longhair because the rest of my cats are ragdolls. 

I live in the Netherlands and as far as I  know there is no salmonella in our egss, at least I don't hear it often that someone got ill. I could try to give her this as an extra treat but not on a daily base, I guess.

We use KMR from the brand Trovet, also bought at the vet when we went last week. I don't know where to get goats milk right away but I am pretty sure I can find it in the store tomorrow. Thanks for answering and indeed, thinking out loud may hold the solution!

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All this said and done is adequate, as good conscious breeders usually do.

But as you said, extra round of deworming may be necessary anyway.

As salomonella isnt problem in eggs in your country, you can give raw egg yolk more often than just a treat sometimes.  Why not every day??

When the kittens begins to eat food, they too can get it.  Minced meat, perhaps with raw egg yolk, is classical, for both kittens and mom.

Last, its nothing hurry, but in the long run, please consider using canned wet food.

Many of us here does believe wet food is better than dry food.

Even if it is not marketed as vigorously.

Learn at least your kittens to eat both dry AND wet.

Good luck!

Okay, I really didn't know that about eggs and to be honest, I had not checked it on the internet which I usually do haha I do give them wetfood but not on a daily base because they get plaque on their teeth fast if they don't get dry food. Because the chewynish(muscle) of raw meat is not there in wetfood and the dry food replaces that so their teethgums get massaged too. So I try to give them instead the best dry food available as I don't want to give them wetfoods only. I don't look at the price of what I feed them because I also give myself the best food and my cats deserve the best too, after all they are my babies haha.

When I give wetfood it is all bio. No colourings, too much grains or anything that doesn't really belong in cat food. But the minced meat, should it be pork, beef or 50/50? (they sell all three here) 

And when is the earliest I can start giving them minced meat mixed with raw egg yolk or kmr?

Last but not least. I am pro for dry as well as wet food, but I just make sure they have dry food and a waterfountain all day and wet food once every two days. Maybe I will start giving them wetfood everyday, or minced meat and egg yolk. But the kittens will certainly learn to eat both!

Furretz said:

But the minced meat, should it be pork, beef or 50/50? (they sell all three here) 
And when is the earliest I can start giving them minced meat mixed with raw egg yolk or kmr?

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Minced meat is often among the first real food kittens get, so it will be at about 4 weeks. Or when you choose to introduce them to solid food.

And which meat?  Beef is safest.   Sheep should also do, I reckon.

In Netherlands, like in Sweden and other countries with first class controlled slaughter meat, pork should be OK.

But with pork there are some theoretical dangers.  Not only the "worms incapsled in meat" which are easy to detect even by a rudimentary veterinary controll in the slaughterhouses. But there may also be a virus sickedness, Auyesky (spelling?) syndrome...  which can happen "abroads" in countries with less vigorous controll.

So, to be safe, I dont recommend raw pork meat for cats.

So glad to hear they're doing better.   


Sweet  photos!   I  love the two kittens touching noses.    Looks like you have all seals & blues? 

I don't think you overreacted;   I would have been concerned too.    As I was saying, and as your mentor said,   it's important to look at the average over time .   sometimes there can be a day that does not fall in to the general pattern  --   but if the mean daily weight gain goes down so much for a week,  that is worrying.  

 I think that was a good idea to treat for parasites.   

Ideally you want to see double weight at 1 week and triple  at 2 wks.   It sounds like this litter has still come close to that  despite the lower gains in the second week,  and hopefully now the general trend will continue to improve and get back to a better MDWG. 

Re wet and dry food,   

Dry cat food does not  mimic the action of chewing on raw muscle and bone and does not provide the same sort of teeth cleaning.   Pet food companies ( who make a larger profit on dry food) have long made this claim in their marketing to both vets and cat owners,   but there's really no proof of it.   Cats usually either gulp the pieces down whole so that it may not even touch their teeth,  or else if they do bite it, it only touches the tips of their sharp teeth and crumbles ( and sometimes pieces then get caught between the teeth).   That does not provide abrasive action that cleans the teeth at the gum line. .  There is no evidence that regular dry food cleans teeth at all   ( except for the special prescription dental diets that are large hard pieces,  and that isn't likely to do it as well as chewing on dense raw muscle and bone ,  or  by you brushing their teeth. 

 I believe there were a couple studies by pet food companies that showed plaque accumulated slightly more slowly on a dry food diet than a wet food diet.  But my own thought is that the benefits of wet food  (in higher moisture,   as well as usually higher animal protein  and less use of plant proteins and carbohydrate ) far outweigh the rather small difference in plaque accumulation.    

This article by Dr  Hofve  "Does Dry Food Clean the Teeth?" discusses the different studies there have been related to food and dental health,  as well as her own experience  in many years as a  vet. 

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/does-dry-food-clean-the-teeth/

Why Cats Need Canned Food   http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/why-cats-need-canned-food-2/

Great article by Dr Pierson   "Feeding Your Cat"  http://www.catinfo.org/

Hi furretz, I hope you are still a member of this site as I would really like to know what worming treatment you used for your 8 day old kittens? We have a litter of 4 kittens and first 1 of them started losing weight and today a second one is started to lose weight. They are 9 days old today. The vets checked the little fellow yesterday and seems fine, he is a little fighter and is resisting Beaphar formula. Our girl is also an indoor cat but fed on a complete raw diet. We do have one outdoor cat. As a precaution I want the vets to worm the kittens but most of the treatments are from 14 days onwards. Your assistance or for that matter anyone who can recommend a treatment would be greatly appreciated!

This thread is from 2013, just so you know.

burisia said:

Hi furretz, I hope you are still a member of this site as I would really like to know what worming treatment you used for your 8 day old kittens? We have a litter of 4 kittens and first 1 of them started losing weight and today a second one is started to lose weight. They are 9 days old today. The vets checked the little fellow yesterday and seems fine, he is a little fighter and is resisting Beaphar formula. Our girl is also an indoor cat but fed on a complete raw diet. We do have one outdoor cat. As a precaution I want the vets to worm the kittens but most of the treatments are from 14 days onwards. Your assistance or for that matter anyone who can recommend a treatment would be greatly appreciated!

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Supplement more vigorously - write more later

I saw you use Beaphar kmr, which should be OK. If you can get raw goats milk, its even better. And supplement more vigorously, its apparently Red Alert... Get home glucose sugar / dextrose. If you cant find it, you can use honey ro white caro syrup. You can add some of this, gives quick energy.
If necessary, have sweet water by these solvents on lips and gum.
Such a sweetish water + little salt, makes a terrific home made pedialyte.

Ok, safe dewormers useful at this age? Im not aware of any, 2+ weeks is the earliest as you wrote. But if you are SURE they have heavy infestation of worms, and are desperate, I suppose you must try with some dewormer which is supposed to be mild. Pyrantel paomate(?) is supposed to be mild. Not because deworming so young is safe, but because its sheer desperation...

At so young age, round worms is most probable, and pyrantel is effective.