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binkyboo

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Yes she does lick herself. She is getting more and new agitated because I don't think she knows what to do when the kitty cries. I am really really trying. My husband and I have 6 children. The soft spot in my heart of people and animals grows daily. This is all hard but I won't give up unless I think she is suffering. I am torn right now. I am not sure what will come next but I try to prepare myself.
 
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binkyboo

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A little more movement and ALOT MORE MEOWING! She actually tries to suckle once I put her up to Sable's nipple. Her tongue goes but can't latch on but it is way way better than yesterday. I just keep thinking she is goin to "snap out of it". I am sure it is wishful thinking. She was down 2 grams this morning from last night but she was very cold this morning. Sable tried moving her and she wasn't laying very close to her momma. "Just keep swimming!"
 

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Im glad there seems to be some progress!

But once again, I must stress, avoid her chilling down. 

HAD you tried carrying her at your chest?  Make perhaps a little sack to carry her in.   Even if she has her mom, it may be an alternative in some moments.

When she is cold, digesting of milk doesnt work properly.  In such moments the only way to give energy which still works is this mentioned earlier: have some dextrose (=glucose sugar), or white caro syrup, or honey, directly on her gum.   As all these do contains much glucose, and glucose goes directly into the blood already from the mouth.  

Common sugar works too if you dont have anything else, but it must be digested some first.

Like wise, if she seems to get a fall in blood sugar content (which looks like as she is beginning to fade) - this "sugar trick" on the gum may help.

Good luck!
 
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binkyboo

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Yes I do carry her with me during the day but put her with momma in the evening with hot water bottles. Now she is meowing a lot. I read somewhere they only meow I they new something. Should I be concerned??
 

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Sure... But simultaneously, this is a sign she is alive and fighing on...  Everything is relative.

Its a little like in the old joke:  Nurse reports to the doctor:  "doctor, the patient is becoming better, he can even talk some now".  Doctor asks "What does he says?"  Nurse continue the report "he says he is feeling much worse now".

*vibes!*
 

StefanZ

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Im thinking on. It dawned on me you can probabably try and massage her limbs some, rub them some, carefully and softly.

Massage rubbing of the whole body I dont know. You dont know what really happened, if it is some sinew which was teared, or some bone, it could be harmful or at least, painful.

But rubbing the limbs should be safe, and help her with the blood and fluid circulation.

*vibes!*
 

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 So sorry this is going on with this baby who was already such a miracle survivor.    I feel sad for the kitten, her mom and the humans.   There's no way we can know what the problem is, it indeed sounds like she may have got some injury since it was so sudden and the problem involves some difficulty moving.     I know it can be hard to keep small kids from wanting to play with fragile baby kittens who can be so easily hurt by accident.   When we had kittens and a toddler ,  we actually had to keep them in a locked room when an adult couldn't personally supervise.      

It was still very uncertain this kitten would make it anyway

The meowing  usually is because she is hungry , scared  or uncomfortable  --  too cold, too hot or having some other discomfort or pain  .

  Is she still able to pee and poop with stimulation?   I know she hasn't been consuming much,  so she would not have much poop in her.   

   It is crucial to avoid hypothermia  and hypoglycemia ( low blood sugar) and dehydration.    That is like the triad of problems when kittens are "fading". 

 So as has already been discussed, it is very important to keep her warm.  

and  the blood sugar is why people are mentioning glucose or syrup .  Young kittens can't maintain their blood sugar level unless they get fed every few hours.   But she also does need more nutrition and liquid .

That sounds very good that you said she is more active and her attempts to suckle were way better than yesterday.      but unfortunately she is not succeeding.

 If she cannot nurse from her mom,   you need to try to get some formula into her.    You can try to see if she is able to nurse from a bottle or an oral syringe (or syringe with nipple attachment).  but it may be best to tube feed in this situation,  if the kitten does not seem to be suffering and there seems to be a chance she might get better.    In tube feeding you actually run a very thin tube down into the stomach .  The advantage is you can use it with weak kittens and it avoids the risk of aspirating formula into the lungs that can happen with bottle feeding.  

http://pawpeds.com/pawacademy/reproduction/tubefeeding/     Here is an article about it but if possible, it is better for a vet or someone else experienced at it to show you how the first time.     So you might ask the vet and also could contact local shelters and rescue groups.      If you are in the US you can search on petfinder.com for animal welfare groups in your area.   If you did get assistance from a rescue it would be nice to give them a donation to help the other animals. 

If she seems dehydrated ( for example,  if her gums feel  'tacky' instead of smooth,  or if you take a little pinch of skin, pull it up and it does not immediately snap back in place in under a second) , i would also give some plain Pedialyte or make homemade Pedialyte with the recipe on kitten-rescue.com   http://kitten-rescue.com/what_to_feed.html

Sending good vibes to little Lucky.  
 
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binkyboo

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Yes momma Sable gets her to potty also just peed on me during a feeding this morning. I have been giving her KMR since this started dropping with a syringe and tried a nipple also. She swallows but does not suck. She has been gaining but very little in 48 hours was about 10 grams. I have been feeding her every 3 hours and approximately 1 small scoop of KMR to 3 scoops of water.it is a 1-2 ratio but I felt more water would help her stay hydrated?!? I called another vet today if she makes it another couple days they would like to see her and evaluate her. I am trying guys and thank you for the support. This is an amazing place I would love to return the favor someday to others. If anyone has any suggestions please oh please let me know. All if this is greatly appreciated. No matter the animal they deserve love and affection.
 
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binkyboo

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I don't think my last post posted :( anyways yes she potties fine with me and mom. Actually peed on me during a feeding. I have been giving her KMR and just dropping it in. She doesn't suck but swallows well. I am trying! I called another vet they want to see her in about 2 days if she makes it to evaluate her. Sable is a good mommy she is trying also. We make a good team!
 
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binkyboo

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Thank you everyone as well. This is amazing to hear any and all help or information. Sable is now fixed. The vet went ahead and did it during c-section.
 

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 Good to hear she can potty!   I was concerned if she had some internal injury and could not do it, she would be really suffering by now so I wanted to rule that out as a reason for crying.  

 Hey,  considering what has been going on   it is actually quite good she gained 10 grams in 2 days.  that is only half as much as  the normal minimum  but at least she is gaining.    

 I think I would increase the proportion of KMR or increase number of feedings and see if you can get some more weight on her.  

I think you're doing a good job and I am glad to hear you are talking to another vet about evaluating her if she hangs in there a couple days.    I really hope she may be able to recover.  
 

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You're doing a great job Binkyboo. I'm glad to hear that Sable has been fixed. She'll recover from the operation really quickly, you'll see. Mummy cats are tough little things.

I hope everything goes well with the little one, it sounds as if she is determined not to give up.

 

maewkaew

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I feel like she may be suffering now..
   I would try to get an appointment with the other vet sooner to evaluate her.  

Has something changed to make you worried about this more?   It had sounded like she might be improving.  

Is she repeatedly crying even if she is warm and had just taken some formula?  

Oh speaking of feeding,   did you know you need to burp her after feeding?    
 
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binkyboo

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Yes I read to burp them just like babies after eating somewhere when I was supplementing them before mommys milk came in. The crying is almost nonstop now. I still can't get her to suck :( she was up 5 grams this morning. I don't really know how much to Fred her I have been using a bottle with only ounces not mls and I do a whole bottle per day. The bottle is 4 ounces and I do know see it has mls but still unsure every feeding how much to be giving her. She doesn't suck I have to drop it in there. She cried during feeds she cries when mommy is with her. Sable just meows and meows when baby cries :( both vets says she is too little they don't know what they could do. She had a very distended belly last night but was old during night feeds and was completely hungry at the morning feed and the distension was gone. She does move a bit more but little to no movement of the head. She is still alive but I don't know what more to do.
 
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binkyboo

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Also I cared for a neighbors kitties today. He had 5 of them. One seems to have a short bottom jaw doesn't suck very well. He is supplementing 2.5 mls every 3 hours and I checked mommys nipples today and her milk is finally in! These kitties he has are so much different than mine were. Lucky even before she got hurt didn't move like these 4 day old kitties do. Also seem to be more developed in many ways and meow more. For lucky being 3 weeks it is a big difference in kitties. Maybe there is something more wrong but I am not going to give up on her.
 
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binkyboo

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Thank you everybody for your support. I don't breed animals but it was sure a great experience. Filled my heart even more. You all have been wonderful. I am jealous of my neighbor he has 5 beautiful kitties 2 calico one black with come calico spots on the face and 2 orange and white ones (they aren't striped they are kind of spotted?!?) anyways I told him if she doesn't have enough milk for all 5 to see if Sable would surrogate them! It sure would be special :)
 

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Clear Pedialyte really helped to perk my kitten up when he was dehydrated and having trouble feeding.  He seemed more eager to lap up the thinner fluid then formula, so I ended up cutting the formula by half with pedialyte. 
 

maewkaew

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 For amounts to feed,  see the kitten-rescue.com site ,  it has feeding schedule with amounts.   

Crying all the time just is not normal.  so I agree with you I am afraid she is suffering because it does sound like you and Sable are doing the right things to try to care for her.   I am afraid you might have to make that sad decision for humane euthanasia.

 If you have a vet school in the area,  or a private practice orthopedic vet or veterinary neurologist,  maybe they could take a look at her.  the trouble is she is so small that they would be limited in what they could do at this time ( for example if she needed surgery).    but you could try that if you want an expert opinion on whether there is even a chance of helping her at some point when she is older,  and  whether there is some way to keep her comfortable until then. 

 But if it's possible she just dislocated something ,  an experienced orthopedic vet or veterinary chiropractor  may be able to adjust it without needing surgery?   I am just guessing.  

I would really try to get her looked at to see if there's anything that can be done now to either correct the problem,  or keep her comfortable until it could be.   If not,  it would be kinder to let her go than to let her suffer.  

She just has had so much stacked against her from the start.  It's almost unheard of for kittens born premature at such a low weight to survive.   It may be she also has some other problems that you didn't know about.  


Poor Sable.  This is very stressful on her too.   If Lucky doesn't make it,  it would actually be really good for Sable  if she could foster a couple of healthy kittens.  
 
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