The difference between IBD and IBS

There are risks with a raw diet.  I know there are benefits but like with many things there are also risks.  The risk of bacterial infection is why my vet doesn't support raw diets.  She does support a wet diet and she sees the benefits of raw but she thinks the risks outweigh the benefits.  I remember seeing one of the vets that used to be on an ER vet hospital show on a NGW show about domesticated cats.  One of the things that he went into was the problems that they are now seeing in domesticated cats.  He said we have taken a species that are supposed to be out hunting their food and climbing trees and turned them into couch potatoes.

The stuff we find in commercial food is why I switched to raw. Not to mention how bad my cats felt. Tainted meat isn't good for anybody, but if a cat can wash its behind then some bacteria on the raw food don't scare me that much.

That's the crux of the problem - what's good for one cat can be bad for another, and there's really no way to know beforehand which it'll be. A young healthy cat might do better on raw than commercial food, but one with an underdeveloped immune system might become really ill from raw.

The shelter had Mogli on RC Gastrointestinal because the vet who saw him recommended it, and they'd had good results with other cats. It probably made matters worse for him because of the poultry and grain. I guess that was two strikes: raw/undercooked, then prescription dry. I put him on all-meat canned food, and it went right through him, because there was too much fat and not enough fiber. Third strike and out.

I haven't even been able to get Patches on all wet so it's pretty academic for him anyway.  The wet that I have the best luck with is Wellness Chicken which is one of the really good ones and for the little obstinate kibble addict I give him New Balance kibble which is also one of the better ones.  He is on a steroid and has been for 2 1/2 years.  I know it's a low dose that is supposed to be anti-inflammatory and not enough to suppress his immune system but I wouldn't be surprised at all if his immune system is no longer at 100%.  A lot of people say that poultry doesn't work well with their IBD cats but it seems to be a better choice for him.  I tried beef once before he went on the steroid and he had a definite and very quick negative reaction to it.

I'm not insisting that there aren't cats with special needs, I had a kibble addict before as well. A special needs one in that she was diabetic and CRF. I understand having to do what one has to do. What surprises me are vets concerned about bacterial risks yet recommend/prescribe kibble. Lots of bacteria found there too. Even if bacteria aren't found in the bag after immediately opening it, I can all but guarantee that there will be in a week or so. And while you may take as many precautions as you can to prevent that and may be successful, the general public isn't doing that. Which makes the bacteria argument null and void for me. And the length of time between washing the kibble bowl...again I'm talking about the general public.

Yes, there are risks to any diet. And the choices we make are based on our understanding of the risks vs. the benefits - and what steps we can take to mitigate those risks.

This isn't the place to debate risk vs reward of raw vs commercial, but it should be pointed out that people frustrated searching for solutions for their sensitive cats can control inputs and quality by making homemade food - it doesn't have to be fed raw.

LDG said:

This isn't the place to debate risk vs reward of raw vs commercial, but it should be pointed out that people frustrated searching for solutions for their sensitive cats can control inputs and quality by making homemade food - it doesn't have to be fed raw.

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LDG, I would be interested in making homemade food (not raw) that is complete and balanced. Do you have a resource for this? Everything I have is for raw.

GoHolistic said:

LDG, I would be interested in making homemade food (not raw) that is complete and balanced. Do you have a resource for this? Everything I have is for raw.

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http://www.thecatsite.com/t/258778/not-quite-raw

LDG said:

GoHolistic said:

LDG, I would be interested in making homemade food (not raw) that is complete and balanced. Do you have a resource for this? Everything I have is for raw.

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http://www.thecatsite.com/t/258778/not-quite-raw

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But in the meantime, have you looked at this food:  http://www.addictionfoods.com/index...ategory_id=5&p_catid=0&p_subcatid=2&Itemid=57

It sounds like it might also be similar to what Jcat uses.  It's from New Zealand and has some strange proteins (no kangaroo, unless it's otherwise known as "brushtail")

It is nice to see a defense of chicken and rice.  That seems to always be what Patches has done the best with.  I know rice isn't a natural part of a cats diet but I think it does help Patches with his digestive issues.  I have gotten to the point where I just don't mention it because it's almost embarrassing to around people who know something about cat nutrition.  I am also sure that there are other cats who don't do well on it at all.

mrsgreenjeens said:

But in the meantime, have you looked at this food:  http://www.addictionfoods.com/index...ategory_id=5&p_catid=0&p_subcatid=2&Itemid=57

It sounds like it might also be similar to what Jcat uses.  It's from New Zealand and has some strange proteins (no kangaroo, unless it's otherwise known as "brushtail")

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The single protein in some varieties, yes, but that brand uses multiple vegetables/fruits. Some varieties are low in fat. It looks very similar to a European brand called "Catz", but you'd have to feed a lot more of the Addiction. Two 6.5 ounce cans a day for a 10 lb cat sounds like a lot.

I've got a whole collection of cat (and dog) food recipes, many of them containing some rice. When we had multiple pets I made just about all their food. The nutritionist I'm going to cooks all her own pet food. The one caveat she has about it is that it's possible, not proven, that the fluctuating nutrients in homemade food could aggravate IBD, so it would be safest to stick to just one or two recipes. A lot depends on the availability of your protein source, too. Some are easy to get, others not so much. Kangaroo is a problem where I live, yet I know my sister (in the U.S.) sometimes buys it.

Thanks all. I visited the Addiction website and would be willing to try it, but I worry about shipping...7-10 days from Washington to Delaware in the heat of the summer. Maybe I'll wait until the fall when it is cooler. I have tried the Wild Calling rabbit and buffalo wet varieties, but it was a no go. Tried the Nature's Variety rabbit and duck varieties, too.    Sebastian used to like the EVO 95% duck, but he stopped liking it; I blame EVO's inconsistency.

Oh, I don't mean to sound like I'm arguing for raw necessarily...it's just that it's hard enough to source good meats for humans. We all have heard about the hormones, falsely advertising as organic, and etc. What goes in some animal foods is atrocious. Including the animals we eat.

I don't have a problem with rice, so long that it helps that specific cat. There are recipes galore for homemade cat food with rice, squash, and etc. And I don't see much difference in preparing the meat/fat raw or cooked; it's the bones that can be harmful if cooked.

Unless I'm mistaken, the same supplements/premixes can be used for cooked or raw meat. Just make sure that there is a calcium source in the proper amount if it is not included in the premix.

The way I understand it taurine needs to be added back in after cooking.  I know I seen a post somewhere about taurine having a melting point of 312 degrees but everything else I have read has said that taurine breaks down quickly with cooking.

Taurine is a must! And it is in every premix I've seen, and reputable homemade mixes. I use Dr. Pierson's recipe and add even more taurine than she says to because it isn't known how fast it breaks down. Some premixes don't have a calcium source because some folks prefer to add their own. I use bone, but that isn't good for the renal cats. Egg shells are used instead. But it is always a good reminder for folks to understand properly balancing a homemade diet.

Oh, and to stay on topic with IBD/IBS, I remember a raw feeder whose cat had undigested bone in the stomach. I wonder if that is related?

GoHolistic said:

Sebastian used to like the EVO 95% duck, but he stopped liking it; I blame EVO's inconsistency.

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That's possible, but it could just be Sebastian being picky. Jamie used to relish a brand or flavor for a while, then completely stop eating it. I'd "retire" it for two or three months, then start giving it to him again, and he'd eat it. I never gave him anything for a single meal more than twice a week, and he'd still get sick of it.

It is funny with Frank he seems to like the same food all the time and is very wary to try anything new but Ava gets sick of food and likes to try new things. One thing that they have in common is they are both obsessed with dry food. I was worried last night they didn't get enough calories because Frank had vomited and Ava wasn't to interested in the wet so I put a bowel of nature's variety LI down and they immediately swarmed and went to town for the short amount of time I let them eat it.

A lot of cats seem to be addicted to dry food. I had the worst time getting Jamie to eat canned food, although we got him at 10 weeks and the kittens had been given wet food. His mother preferred dry, and he kept eating hers at the foster home. We finally compromised on half wet, half dry, but it was a battle of the wills.

For future reference, GoHolistic has a thread in the Nutrition forum: What (commercial/prescription) foods have worked/have you tried for your IBD cats?

I just saw this great video on IBD Dr. Karen Becker. There is a lot of really interesting information but one thing I had never heard before is the connection between parasites and IBD. I also had not heard of the GI test she mentions. 

That's a good find, and very informative, particularly the part about what diet she recommends and why (novel protein, no grain, pumpkin or sweet potatoes). My vet did mention that coccidia, among other things, could cause IBD (before EHEC was found; Mogli had had coccidia).