Urgent!!

I know this is a bit long, but I need good advice! Please read. Some of you may have read about my little kitten, Nermal, awhile back. Nerm was doing better, but then he suddenly went downhill. He was throwing up (more like gagging while eating). It happened 3 times, and I was still able to get some fluids into him but not enough. I think the experience scared him, because he then started refusing the dropper. I took him to the vet (and now my rent is late, I love this little kitty!). The vet was very pessimistic, telling me how "she had fostered kittens and she quit doing it because they all die, they all just die". They took his temp, she declared him hypothermic. Temp seems to float from 97-99, although it is hard to get an accurate temp rectally because the thermometer is too big for his little bum and he fights back. They found evidence of fleas, which I knew and have been fighting daily. His gums are pale, anemic looking. They gave me us amoxicillin, just in case it was something bacterial in his gut. She said his stomach felt "gassy". They prescribed Capstar for the fleas, which I declined. Although he is 7 weeks old, he only weighs 10.5-11 ounces, I felt that giving him a pill intended for up to a 24 pound animal just could not be safe. Plus, how would I even get him to take it? We took Nermal home. We have been doing everything in our power to keep him warm, although he inevitably chooses to lay in the coolest part of his box. I have been pushing formula with a new syringe/dropper the vet gave me that seems to be working much better. It prevents any air bubbles, which seems to have stopped the gagging. He is now taking a formula/ wet food mix through the dropper along with some high-calorie paste, and I am feeding him steadily around the clock. Now he is constipated! He hasn't had a bowel movement in almost three days. I try stimulating him after each feeding, but no go. He is urinating, and although it has been more yellow due to dehydration, it is becoming lighter and he is peeing more each time. What can I safely do for his constipation? I need to get his bowels moving! I have emailed the vet, but I am not sure I trust her opinion anyway. She was so negative and did little to help, but had no problem charging me full price. I can't afford to seek a second opinion. I also have not started the amoxicillin yet, she said it could cause diarrehea which would likely kill him, and it was up to me whether I wanted to try it or not. Since he is constipated, should I try the amoxiciilin and see if it helps to get his bowels moving? BTW, Nerm is resting a lot (he always has) but is alert, bright eyed, purrs.... he even escaped his box for the first time last night. I am willing to keep fighting as long as he is not in pain or distress. Thank you for any suggestions!

BTW, the vet would not even discuss deworming him. She seemed to think he is just doomed.

Gosh, I'm so sorry to hear this. Thank you for trying to save little Nermal. I don't have any experience with kittens, but are you sure he's constipated? If he hasn't been eating a whole lot and has been vomiting, he may not have a whole lot in his system to expel?

I'm sorry that the vet was so negative. I think you're doing the right thing trying to keep him warm and get as much food and water into him as you can. I guess I would be concerned about giving the antibiotics as well since they do so frequently cause diarrhea. What about probiotics? They might help his digestive system with much less risk than the antibiotics.

I am familiar with probiotics for people but not cats. Is there a product sold? Can he safely have yogurt? I'm not sure about the lactose content of yogurt, I know lactose is not good for kittens.

Hi there and i am so sorry to hear about your kitten.

I just want to advise you of the forum rules:

No online advice can replace direct veterinary intervention. If you suspect that your cat may be ill, please contact your vet immediately. You are welcome to look for advice in the health forum while waiting for that appointment, but never delay proper veterinary care waiting for Internet advice. Remember that cats, and especially kittens, are very adept in keeping pain to themselves and delaying treatment may cause irreversible damage.

If you cannot afford a vet, there are resources available to you to ensure your cat gets the veterinary care. There is an excellent article titled “When You Can’t Afford a Veterinarian” on this website, available at http://www.thecatsite.com/Health/76/...erinarian.html. Please read through it to find out more about the options available to you. Have you also contacted your local cat rescues? They maybe able to help you with costs if you agree to foster.

It does sound like you are doing your best and like Vball91 I do not have a lot of experience with very young cats. There is a lot of great information on the pregnant cat and kitten forum and a lot of very knowledgeable people.

4theloveofkitty said:

I am familiar with probiotics for people but not cats. Is there a product sold? Can he safely have yogurt? I'm not sure about the lactose content of yogurt, I know lactose is not good for kittens.

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Plain yogurt is generally safe to give cats as it is more digestible than milk.

A little plain yogurt is usually ok to give, but it does not provide the amount of probiotics needed to be helpful. Actually human grade probiotics are recommended more so than the pet formulations (higher quality, fewer unnecessary ingredients). I would recommend the Nexabiotic 20 strain 1/4 capsule twice a day for adults. Since he's so young, I'm not sure what an appropriate dose would be, maybe half that?

 I am very sorry to hear Nermal is not doing well.  

  adding some drops of vegetable oil  might help with constipation.  and try  some canned pumpkin.   not with spices added,  just plain pumpkin.  

& add more water to his food.   If he is dehydrated that can certainly be contributing to the constipation.  

What happens when you take a pinch of skin on his back and pull up?  How long does it take to go back into place?  it should be in a split second.   If it is over a second that  is a sign of dehydration. 

If it is over 2 seconds he may need sub- q fluids at the least.    On a young kitten it is usually best done with a large syringe, attach tubing w/ butterfly needle.  so you can more easily measure the exact amount.  but I realize you can't easily do this without seeing a vet again.   

also I'm afraid if he does not poop soon, he will need an enema and you should not try that on your own.   

If there is ANY way you could borrow some for a second opinion...  maybe contact cat rescue groups in your area to ask for a recommendation ?   

Hypothermia is also a big concern.   I think temperature in his nest  needs to be  85 F. 

Be sure to keep fighting fleas.  go over him with a flea comb often  and wash bedding frequently in hot water.  the anemia is very worrying.  

 Best wishes to the little guy.  

This is what www.kitten-rescue.com  says about constipation: "If your kitten has not passed a stool in 24 hours, you can dilute his formula or add 2 drops of vegetable oil to his bottle. Alternatively, you can give him a little dab (about the size of a match head) of Laxatone. If he does not pass a stool in 48 hours, take your kitten to a vet. Never attempt to give a kitten an enema and never give anything like store bought Fleets enema to your kitten. The phosphorus inside is deadly for cats. Your vet can help you with the problem of constipation best."

The same site gives also advices on stimulating, one of them is to simply let warm water trickle over the kitten, stimulating and washing at once. Quite effective and worth to try if you hadnt tried it yet.

Of course, dry off scropolously afterwards with warm towel.   (you can warm up the towel in a micro).

btw, 7 weeks?  He can possibly be old enough for some plain crushed pumpkin, best such sold as canned.   Lets see if  I or you find about this here on our TCS forum.  I know it was discussed.

These lines were written in the thread by SavingKali, where Kali was 3 weeks at that time (yes she made it).  Interesting thread! Our EB24 wrote:

"As far as her constipation- You could buy a some plain canned pumpkin and mix it with a good amount of warm water to make it liquid enough to go through her bottle/syringe or for her to lap up. Pumpkin is great for both diarrhea and constipation. You could also try putting her butt right under the faucet and rubbing her gently in a circular motion with a towel that way. Sometimes the flow of the warm water helps get them going (and it makes clean up super easy- just make sure you dry her really well so she doesn't get chilled afterwards). I wouldn't try any sort of cat laxative with her because she's so young and getting the right dosage is hard, but if she goes another day without having a bowel movement call the vet and have her rechecked. A little constipation from the medications wouldn't be surprising but it shouldn't last more than a couple of days without becoming worrisome."

The link to that thread, inlcuding links to some other babies in difficulties:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/258503/...an-you-tell-me-if-i-am-doing-everything-right

Good luck!

 More tips  about the constipation.     After a feeding,  try massaging his little belly  in circles with your thumbs on his abdomen and along his sides,   and move in the direction from stomach to anus , then on his anal area .  

Another trick is alternate the massaging and move his back legs   -- make like bicycling movements .    

As to the possible worm issue, this may help:

Formulation of DE

Diatomaceous earth is available in a distinct powder formulation for use internally in humans and animals. Food-grade DE is safe for consumption by pets to aid in worming. . Food-grade DE is available at most feed stores and through online retailers. Industrial-grade DE for swimming pool filtration and other uses is also available. However, this formula is toxic and can be fatal if consumed. Be very careful to read the package thoroughly to determine its contents.

Dosing for Dogs and Cats

Because food-grade DE is not a toxic agent, it is very safe to use in the recommend dosage for worming pets, even very young puppies and kittens. The following can be given once or twice daily:

• Kittens: .5 to 1 teaspoon

Read more: Using Diatomaceous Earth to Worm Pets - VetInfo

Hi, everyone. Out of desperation, I called the vet and asked her if there was anything she could do for Nermal's constipation. The answer was a flat out no, she said he was just too small. I did convince her to sell me the dewormer though. I read suggestions about the canned pumpkin for constipation. I ended up making him his own special glop, since at this point I am willing to try anything. I used a spoon of canned pumpkin, some Kefir probiotic yogurt milk (99% lactose free),goat milk, clear Pedialite, kitten formula, and wet food. Mixed it all up, warmed it lightly for him. He loved it! I didn't even have to put the dropper in his mouth all the way, he lapped it up before I could get it in! Then I googled a term I had heard of while looking for answers "the triangle method" of stimulating elimination. I watched a you tube video on how to do it. I did it, and within 30 seconds Nermal was pooping! I have never been so excited to see poop in my life. lol He pooped probably two inches of poop, all of it really hard and dense but not super dry. I no longer feel the large hard spot on his belly, although it does feel like there is still more to come. Should I keep feeding him his special glop? Will it cause diarrhea if I over do it? Also, I now have both amoxicillin and pyrantel (Strongid?) on hand. I see no sign of worms, his stool was a normal color and no wigglies of any kind. I know both of these meds have the potential to cause diarrhea., and Nermal couldn't handle another bout of dehydration right now. Let me know what you think. I appreciate any advice.

Also, as far as dehydration goes, the "pinch the neck" test does not work with him because his fur is quite puffy and long and I just can't tell anything that way.  I have been having him pee over a glass so I can see how much comes out, and he is peeing quite well, although it is still pretty yellow at this point.

IMO, I would hold off on giving the antibiotics and dewormer until you see he is in a stable condition first, meaning he has moved off the rescue feeding and back on normal food, and having normal and regular stools.

Your doing such a wonderful job!! I'd next find a new vet for sure. No need to continuing with a vet with such a negative attitude IMO.

Katluver4life said:

IMO, I would hold off on giving the antibiotics and dewormer until you see he is in a stable condition first, meaning he has moved off the rescue feeding and back on normal food, and having normal and regular stools.

Your doing such a wonderful job!! I'd next find a new vet for sure. No need to continuing with a vet with such a negative attitude IMO.

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I concur with holding off on the antibiotic and dewormer for the moment, but would definitely continue with the mix you made up,  I would probably let him eat as much as he wants at this point, (but not all at once because you don't want him to throw it up from over eating)

How are his gums looking?  Are they getting any more pink? 

Tried to get a look at his gums this evening, but he wasn't having it and I didn't want to stress him.  I did give him another bath with Dawn tonight  and warmed him up super well afterwards.  A lot of the fleas seem to be hiding on his face which is making them hard to get during the bath.  I try to comb and pluck them out as I see them throughout the day.  It was definitely better than last time.  I'm going to keep him on his special mix until he has at least one more bowel movement.  I think I will be adding a bit of pumpkin to it after that too, he seems to be really into it. (His little face is orange!)  I will just flip the ratio to more formula when he starts to do better. I have been giving him 3 or four droppers at a time sloooowly, then waiting about twenty minutes and repeating.   He lost a couple of grams today, but I assume that is because he was finally able to poop.  He has definitely been perkier, he laid in my lap and and attacked his little toy for a solid half-hour earlier, and he just purs and purs.  Nerm is a fighter, that's for sure. 

I agree about letting him eat as much as he wants and can slowly. He needs to be gaining everyday.