How to detect diabetes?

Blackey is around 7 years old and was rescued at 2 from a life of tomming.

He had been hit by a car and had a gash on his head.

He was taken into the vets and cured and fixed.

Last night we took him to the vets for shots and to check his limp and he weighed 16 lbs, down from 23 lbs. It has been very hot here, no AC and he's also been drinking water which I never noticed before.

I am wondering if there is another way they can tell if this is just the heat or diabetes?

He sometimes limps, due to the old injury, when it's humid... that's gone away.

When he weighed 23 lbs he was being fed dry food and wet, with no limits. He developed last year a urinary blockage from which we saved him.

So currently he's on the urinary wet food, seemed to be fine according to the vet, yet I was shocked when I was told he only weighed around 16 lbs.

I have been brushing a lot of fur off of him as he is shedding in the intense heat... but not 5 lbs worth, and hope the new water drinking is only because I changed the bowl type and the heat.

He's in my avatar.

What's the time frame from 23lbs to 16lbs? It does seem like a lot of weight loss, but there could be many other factors besides diabetes. A full blood panel should tell you if it's diabetes, kidney issues, etc.

I'd guess around 8 weeks... that's how long it's been hot... since the beginning of June.

7 lbs is a LOT to lose in only 8 weeks. The vet seriously wasn't concerned at all? That's almost a third of his total weight!

If he were my cat, I would get some bloodwork done.

Hi Catapult!

I second vball91's recommendation about bloodwork - urinanalysis, too.

Cats' livers can take a very serious hit when weight is lost quickly. Feline livers can't process body fat like every other mamal and human can - their livers simply absorb the fat and stop/reduce functioning....it can be fatal. This happens more often with large cats, so double-worry there. Apart from test numbers relating to diabetes, make sure they look at liver numbers - you can tell them that concern relates to 'Fatty Liver Disease'.

Keep us posted!
 

Well I guess I was  mistaken!  Sorry to have alarmed.

The 22 lb weight had been when he was in full urinary tract blockage mode and his stomach was full,  and we had to rush him in to surgery....

Then he was down to 17 lbs due to no more dry food (boyfriend used to keep it full to the brim and cat was overeating) and plus the heat, means he was only down a pound.

I called and confirmed that... that is why the vet said nothing. The vet actually wanted him to lose some weight.

He seems a little bony to me now but that's because I brush him every day, which he loves, and it's like an extra cat each time!

It's been so hot here, he's lost most of his underfur...so he seems sleek to me.

Also, he's drinking plenty of water which they wanted, and eating 2 cans or less of urinary diet wet food.

I'm getting attached to this little monkey.

Well I have sad news. We went back to the vet yesterday and Blackey is now down to 14 1/4 lbs. This is just in the last month from 15 3/4 lbs. The vet said he is generally healthy with a nice shiny coat which I brush...

Xrays showed nothing in his lungs or organs, but bloodwork said diabetes. She said this is good and we caught it early so he should respond well to treatment.

Now that I've stopped crying and gotten hold of myself and convinced my BF that we CAN treat him we will go back tomorrow for options.

She said something about a certain type of shot and food combo that could put him in remission and he would not need the shots anymore. I have four cases of urinary SO but this will be a different kind of food.... I hope the place that delivers will have it.

He's a bit subdued but just as affectionate.. I knew the water drinking was unusual. I thought it was the heat and the fact that he's such a good boy in the house.

He's barely 8, has had a prince's life these last two years in my house and I love him dearly.

I told the BF when he moved in that I would get attached to him, this is why I never got a pet when I was widowed in 2001. It is too heartbreaking when you lose them and I'm sick of heartbreaks.

The vet could not believe what a good boy this cat is. He doesn't jump on counters, never scratches my furniture and only uses his post...  we take him out on a harness and just the other day he got loose and I thought we lost him and I was crying for hours.

Turns out he'd lost weight and the harness slipped off of him while we were not looking.. No more.

I just hope I can bear to stick him with a needle twice a day.

I thought being a senior citizen this stuff would be easier but it's  never easy... I had a beloved border collie and I cried for 5 years over her and vowed I'd never get attached to an animal again. I also felt like it was the food that made her sick... I had no idea about different grades of food but now I am horrified at what they put in it.

OK I'll stop whining now... I"m sure you all understand.

I am sorry to hear this, but diabetes is very manageable with diet and insulin as needed. Diabetic cats need high animal protein/low to no carb diets. I would encourage you to read the diabetes and diet info on www.catinfo.org and www.healthypets.mercola.com. There's also endocrinevet, but I can't remember the exact address and am on my phone. I'll post that one later.

As vball91 said, diabetes is very treatable! Check out the links she posted as well as www.felinediabetes.org.

Also, insulin needles are very tiny and easy to use. The key to giving injections is to poke quickly. Going slowly hurts! I gave my Grey (RIP) her injections as she was eating. She just kept on eating as I gave it to her.

I have an elderly cat who is now 17 years old. She was diagnosed as diabetic several years ago - drinking lots of water, urinating enough to practically flood the litter pan, and confirmed with a blood test.

She was put on oral medication - glipizide. Easy to dose her as the small pill could be mixed with a little wet food. She'd eat that, then get the rest of her meal.

In the early days we went back to the vet for repeat blood tests. As she stabilized only once a month, then even more infrequently.

Mist was also switched to wet food only. And on my own I chose to feed her 4 times a day: breakfast, lunch, dinner, bedtime. She gets ONLY Fancy Feast Classic Tender Beef and FF Classic Turkey and Giblets. These flavors (why oh why must the label information be printed in such miniscule type size) have NO grains - wheat, wheat gluten, corn, etc. Do not be mislead by other brands that have potato, green peas, cranberries, whatever. Cats eat meat, not vegetables.

Here's good news for you. Cats are Type 2 diabetics, much easier to control than Type 1 which is what dogs have. And cats can recover. Mist has been off glipizide for a couple of years, controled only with diet.

Every cat is different. But there is a strong likelihood that Blackey will do just fine. Good luck. Here's hoping he (and you) do well and have many, many happy days/ weeks / months / years together.

 Well,  I guess your instinct was accurate.   I’m sorry your handsome Blackey has diabetes.   But fortunately it is not a death sentence.  It’s very treatable!  And I bet you will be SO glad you decided to treat his diabetes and give him a chance to live !

This is a very good introduction to Feline Diabetes written by a vet  http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

 And here is a site with tons of info where I got a lot of help with my diabetic kitty:  http://www.felinediabetes.com/       http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/

As your vet said, with the advancements in knowledge about how to treat feline diabetes ,  nowadays most diabetic cats  (   if on the right kind  of treatment protocol )  end up being able to go off insulin and can then just be diet- controlled.

Studies have shown that the most successful treatment combination is a very low-carbohydrate diet  and  twice-daily injections of a long-acting insulin such as Lantus ( glargine)  or Levemir ( detemir) .    

The remission rate seems to go up even more when you add in home blood glucose testing,  using the same glucometers that human diabetics use to monitor their blood glucose.    One study saw remission for   84% of cats who went on a certain tight regulation protocol within 6 months of diagnosis!   It involved Lantus or Levemir insulin,   low carb diet, and testing their blood glucose a few times a day.  

http://www.fcv.unl.edu.ar/archivos/...LOGIA 2010/intensiveglucosecontroglargine.pdf

Testing at home is actually usually MORE accurate than at the vet where stress can throw the results off.  You don’t HAVE to do it.  But having more data  about how the insulin is affecting him can help  to be able to safely keep him at a healthy blood glucose level ( which gives the pancreas a chance to heal ) .      

 Of course,  there are cats that for one reason or another  need to stay on insulin for life,  but can still live long happy lives.  

My own cat went  off insulin for a year but then he ended up having pancreatitis and IBD  that affected his blood glucose,  so  he had to go back on insulin. .  But he had 6 more years of life because I treated his diabetes.  and it was not the diabetes that killed him,  it was cancer.     Louis loved life so I am sure HE was glad to have those extra years.  

  I know it may feel scary at first to think of giving injections,  but you can do it!    

 I thought my cat would never put up with these things.      The injections turned out not to be hard, I just gave him his shot while he was busy eating .  he got used to it soon and didn’t seem to mind.   

When I later started doing the ear prick & blood test,  that was a little trickier at first,  but we both learned.   And he got to where he actually would come running and jump up to get his test and his shot --   because he knew he would also get some of his favorite low-carb treats!    He would do anything for his Salmon Snacks.  

FOOD:    You don't have to feed him a special expensive "prescription" food.  Most of it is NOT really low carb.   If you feel you DO  want to feed a prescription food,  the only one that is low carb is the regular CANNED Purina DM    ( NOT the  "Savory Selects" canned.   I don't know the carb level on that but it has corn starch and soy flour    ( The dry version is at least 5 x higher in carbs!)     Purina DM is an OK food.  

 But even the vet who developed that food  has said that there are NON prescription wet foods that are just as good.  Some cats seem to get tired of the Purina DM after a while.   maybe because of so much liver?     Personally  I would rather feed more muscle meat from a specific animal source,  and not just liver and by-products.     

Here is a chart that has nutrition info for many canned cat foods including the veterinary products.    http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf     

 Look at the  numbers on the left side of the chart  (CALORIE %)   I  definitely would stay with foods that have the "C" ( carb) column  no higher than 10.     But  lower is better.  I would try to stay under 7 most of the time.     A cat's  natural diet would be under 5% of calories from carbs.     ( You can see there the canned DM says 3.   (The Veterinary diets start on page 28.) 

NOTE  that a lot of the low carb food is from fish.  and it's not a good idea to feed a lot of fish because it can cause other problems like with urinary tract and kidneys.    So you can't go JUST by  the numbers. 

 I don't mean  you can never feed any fish.  but I would not feed it as the major part of the diet

[font=arial, sans-serif]OK,   sorry this has been long.   Best wishes to Blackey and you and your BF!  [/font]

Thanks so much everyone for your caring concern. I haven't had a cat since I was a kid, and I lost my dog 30 years ago so I forgot what it was like to get so attached to a pet!

Yes I knew there was something wrong when he was eating less and camped out by his water bowl!

But you'll be happy to know that I've already given him 3 shots and it is totally uneventful! Thank God for that. The vet shaved a patch on his neck but I don't even think that was necessary as I understood this is subcutaneous and the needle is very fine so it's barely invasive.

Initially it sounded like a big mess, but it's really NOTHING. In fact if BF didn't hold him I could probably just grab his scruff and do it myself.

We are however being VERY careful these first few days to watch that his glucose level doesn't go too low, as I have not received my glucose meter which is on order and won't be shipped until after the holiday weekend. I read and watched videos all day Friday and that afternoon when we went for training and to pick up the insulin, I already had all my questions for the vet which were answered.

He seems to have perked up already so I am hoping that he will respond to the treatment.

I'm not sure he'll tolerate the taking of blood from the ear but I can always try his paw. It is just not feasible to take him in to the vets 3 times a week for testing, as he gets car sick even though he has a huge dog carrier and I put him in the back of my empty "luxury" pickup and ride VERY slowly the 5 miles to the vet so as not to jostle him.

I also learned that normally cats sleep 20 hours per day and I can attest to that because before this he would sleep for 4 hours at a shot. Only this time he looked very woozy when he woke up and was not as meowy or waking us up in the middle of the night.

Last night he was back to his routine of waking us up for food.... but in the morning he was waiting by his bowl at 7:30 and the shot wasn't until 8, so I held off just so I could be sure he'd eat right after the shot.

So far so good and I'm glad this doesn't have to be a death sentence.... I was a basket case on Thursday but now I feel so much better about this.

Also I learned that if you miss a shot, better to skip it altogether as glucose that is a bit too high is better than too low... just resume the next day at the time you want to do the 12 hour increments.

All my cat friends are so proud of me for doing this. I guess when you love something you will set aside your fears and step up to the plate to help them all you can... even when you didn't think you could.



PS - The vet says to switch from Royal Canin Urinary SO, to Purina DM. I was horrified to see the carbs in cat food. Cats in the wild eat birds, fish and mice... I wonder, why can't we just get some nice (raw) chicken tenders and grind those up, or even lean raw hamburger to feed our cats? Then we could be sure they get no fillers... I'm inclined to think the "fillers are the killers" because cats were NOT meant to eat them, other than the occasional chewing on grass. Does anyone here feed their cats raw meat?

Catapult said:

PS - The vet says to switch from Royal Canin Urinary SO, to Purina DM. I was horrified to see the carbs in cat food. Cats in the wild eat birds, fish and mice... I wonder, why can't we just get some nice (raw) chicken tenders and grind those up, or even lean raw hamburger to feed our cats? Then we could be sure they get no fillers... I'm inclined to think the "fillers are the killers" because cats were NOT meant to eat them, other than the occasional chewing on grass. Does anyone here feed their cats raw meat?

Click to expand...

Actually, quite a few of us on here feed raw, and some feed cooked as well. Have a look at the raw feeding resources sticky. http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread

vball91 said:

Actually, quite a few of us on here feed raw, and some feed cooked as well. Have a look at the raw feeding resources sticky. http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread

Click to expand...

I learned about raw when Grey (RIP) was diagnosed with diabetes. I was instructed to continue kibble but with insulin per the vet, but www.catinfo.org made so much sense to me that I ran a glucose curve on her and then moved her to Fancy Feast classics and noticed she didn't need insulin anymore. Grey wouldn't eat much in the way of people food so I did the best I could with canned and low carb raw. My 3 new cats are all on raw and people are amazed at their coats, eyes, teeth, and zero litter box odor.

Glucose checking isn't a big deal. Put a cotton ball on the other side of the ear before poking, poke, then scrape the blood off with your fingernail and use that blood to check. Or paw, whichever.

Thanks again for the great help and kind support!

I dropped a half a chicken liver in his bowl just now and he ate it up like it was candy... so I am going to reconsider the canned food although I will keep some of the stuff the vet recommended on hand in case I haven't been to market.

I read that they can have chicken, liver, beef, fish, or any meat, but I think I will stick to chicken and livers since those are the most akin to what birds would be in the wild. He's  a stealthy hunter and has caught about 8 chipmunks even while tethered, and couple times he chewed the heads off, and other times just killed and stared at them. (see photo) We try to avoid that because we don't want him catching germs, worms or fleas.

He is so like his old self now, meowing at us to go out (leash only) and catching dragon flies in mid air... wow...

Somehow he gets these chippies to wander too close to him and then WHAM!

I'm thinking I might only have to do the glucose testing once per week once he's stabilized.

Canned water-packed sardines are a healthy treat, otherwise my cats don't get any fish. Definitely check out the links that vball91 and I mentioned. Raw has been a Godsend for many cats but it must be balanced correctly. Treats, as you did, are fine and a great way to get started.

So he can't have ALL raw you're saying? I thought I would do half and half... he seemed to love the liver.

No, he can be on an all raw diet. But the meat/bone/liver/organ ratios are such that too much or too little of something will cause problems. Since your kitty already hunts, prey model raw (frankenprey) would be an easy option for you.

If you are feeding raw as less than 15% of his total diet, you don't need to worry about balancing it. However, if it's more than that, you do need the proper ratios (80% muscle (which includes hearts and gizzards) / 10% bone / 5% liver / 5% other secreting organ). You can also substitute the bone with an alternate calcium source. Please do read up on this info here:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread