Question about good alternatives

franksmom

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Hi there! I would take a look at www.catinfo.org which is a great feline nutrition site written by a vet. I was able to help my cat with IBD issues by switching him to nature's variety wet which is grain free. Check out the raw forum many people have helped their kitties with GI issues with raw and here is a great thread to read (http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239771/...lucky-bugsy-and-hope-to-raw-challenges-galore). It sounds like your cat may have IBD and we had a really interesting thread on the topic recently (http://www.thecatsite.com/t/262946/the-difference-between-ibd-and-ibs). 

Good luck and keep us posted! 
 

maple syrup

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We feed our little guy human grade meat.  I don't buy cat food raw because I can't find any without the veggie content, and any of the ones I tried give our little guy loose stools.  I buy quail, small hens, turkey thighs, beef roast, pork roast, rabbit etc and break it all down.  I buy chicken livers and hearts, and sometimes beef hearts for the organs.  I break it all down and portion it and freeze.  For the meat without bones I either add egg shell powder for calcium, or I purchase chicken necks and give him a piece with it for the bone that they need.  Fish oil for his coat.  

You'll have no problem with a piece of chicken. The worst she could do is vomit it up.... which can happen with any new food.  What Ickies are you worried about?  If you're totally spooked, just sear it before you give it to her.
 
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bh22

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Ok-So my new "variable" that I'm going to change for a few weeks is adding in the pro bio to the z/d food. If this makes no head-way I will change foods again- potentially to raw- but that I will have to look into more, just because I don't handle meat often and I do not trust myself. 

Thank you for all of your help and I will keep you all posted!

Becca, Ana and Lucy
 

ldg

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Have they been checked for all of the parasites like Giardia?

Yes- We've done Fecals on both and both were clean. They've also been tested for Leukemia and Lucy was tested for the HIV at the shelter, Ana was not.

Just FYI, some of the bacteria/parasites that cause diarrhea can be very difficult to find. There are members of TCS where it took up to four fecal samples to identify clostridium difficile, for example. One fecal is often not enough to identify them. That said, the appropriate probiotic at the right dose can resolve coccidia and clostridium-related diarrhea. I don't know about T. foetus, and that's another one of the ones that needs a specific test and can be difficult to find.

The reason for this is that these parasites/bacteria create oocysts, which are shed with the feces. But if the stool is diarrhea or watery, it doesn't necessarily shed into each bowl movement.

If you are going to use S. boulardii, the dose for an adult cat is 5 billion CFU, divided into 2 doses. It does not repopulate the gut like we normally think of probiotics, as it is a yeast-based probiotic. For kittens, the dose is half that (again, divided into AM and PM doses). S. boulardii is very bitter, and difficult to administer. For this reason, I use this probiotic - it is combined with a number of different strains (including acidophilus strains and bifidobacterium), and it is tastey to the cats - they just eat it sprinkled on wet food. It contains basically the correct dose of S. Boulardii for an adult cat, but the "dose" is two capsules. So to treat coccidia or clostridium, one capsule would be given in the morning and one given in the evening. For kittens, it would be 1/2 a capsule AM and PM. Nexabiotic 20 strain Multi-probiotic supplement with S Boulardii


Another bit of info- the Pro Bio was VSL # 3 Capsules.
I'm not familiar with this. But if the culprit is coccidia or clostridium, the probiotic with S. Boulardii should stop the diarrhea within 1-2 days. If it does stop the diarrhea, it needs to be given for at least a month, or it will not completely crowd out the bad bacteria. It takes time.


While this diet is not balanced, whenever we rescue a cat or kitten with diarrhea, this is what we do for up to two weeks. We feed boiled chicken, shredded, along with the chicken broth.

We purchase George's Aloe Vera Juice (it has to be George's, because the latex in the leaf is toxic to cats, and George's does not include the latex and contains no preservatives), Slippery Elm Bark Powder, and the probiotic. Both slippery elm bark powder and George's aloe vera are very healing to the GI system, and have anti-inflammatory properties. Here is info on the slippery elm bark (from a site written by a vet): http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

Info on Aloe Vera and the GI system: http://www.livestrong.com/article/223675-aloe-vera-benefits-for-the-digestive-system/

Again - for CATS, the latex in aloe vera is toxic. Thus George's is the only acceptable brand to use.

Mix one teaspoon of aloe vera juice with 1/4 teaspoon of slippery elm bark powder. Let it gel up. Mix it into the chicken broth that resulted from boiling plain chicken. Most cats don't mind the taste (it tastes pretty much like maple syrup). Sprinkle the probiotic on top. Feed this 2x a day (AM and PM). (It can be fed with some of the shredded chicken).

If the diarrhea doesn't resolve within a few days, then add some white rice (about half white rice, half boiled, shredded chicken) to the meals of boiled chicken.

Again, I recommend using the Nexabiotic probiotic.

This is very healing to the GI system. It provides a kind of "system reset." If diarrhea returns after putting the kitties on the food you want them eating after a week or two on this diet, then you know there's an ingredient sensitivity issue.
 
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bh22

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The S. Boulardii has not proven effective. Ana the younger kitten is having less liquid stool, but Lucy had worse stools yesterday- completely liquid. I am going to try to change foods to a grain free and continue the pro bio. 
 

ldg

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Having had a cat with chronic diarrhea, I understand how frustrating it is. :hugs:

...but I really hope you consider feeding the bland diet with the anti-inflammatory slippery elm bark powder. The George's aloe vera may help, but isn't essential.

When you change commercial foods, you change a lot of variables at once.

If this isn't a parasite (which we can't be sure), and it isn't a bacterial overgrowth, the problem is diet. So feeding just plain, boiled chicken with the broth eliminates all other variables.
 

mschauer

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I've read through all the posts and I second trying a bland diet (cooked chicken with broth). If the problem is diet related you should see improvement. If there is no improvement there is a good chance it isn't diet related. Either way you learn something.

When I got Coco at 10 months old she had loose stools, sometimes liquid, for months. My first clue about what was going on was when I realized she did best on simple (few ingredients) foods. I finally found that giving her a prebiotic/probiotic/digestive enzyme supplement allowed her to eat anything and have a perfect stool. 
 
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bh22

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Thank you all for your comments and ideas. I am happy to say that mom always knows best- my mom that is. She has been saying, switch to a Purina cat chow meow meow meow! since Lucy first developed the wet stool (the day I got her). So- I called a few people who have had cats in the past, and asked what brands they fed- and I went with it. Both of my girls are on Iams kitten food and ANA HAS PERFECT POOP! Lucy is getting more solid every time she goes. So- maybe we we approaching this all wrong, I don't know- all I DO know is what's in the kitty box, and if my girls can finally have normal poop, I am perfectly fine feeding them Iams. 

I still cringe when I think of what's in it- I know.. but, I'm going to give it a try.

I will keep you all updated on our situation.
 

denice

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They are doing better now and that is what counts.  There are always the exceptions to the rule.   My two don't do as well on grain free, even my one without the chronic problems.
 
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bh22

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LUCY HAD SOLID POOP FOR THE FIRST TIME LAST NIGHT. Man, that was such an amazing thing. 

BUT, now she has a slightly water eye.. could this be an allergy? 

It's like it never ends.
 
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bh22

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Once again, I am at my desk in tears over my little kitties digestive problems. 

This time, IAMS was recalled. So. 

Now what?

I am seriously at a loss here. 

Lucy had watery stool again this morning, although the last ones were solid. 

I'm starting to think the pro bio is what made the stools solid in the first place, I am considering going to a grain free food at this point. I have a message into the vet that this point.

Does anyone know why her eyes would be runny? Could this be an allergy to the IAMS. 

I would try the "simple" diet, but I have very little extra time and I don't want them to miss out on key nutrients, the vet advised against this method.

So a cat market cat food is where I will land, but we are on the search again. 

My poor cats.
 

ldg

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The bland diet is not meant for long term feeding. It is a short term tool to settle upset GI systems, and eliminate ingredients in commercial food as a source of the problem.
 

maple syrup

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I know this has got to be a very emotional and worrying time for you.  I think you need to look at the situation logically. 

Your kitten has diarrhea.  Therefore her body is not absorbing the nutrients in the food that she is consuming.  Her body has switched to elimination mode in an effort to rid itself of whatever disagrees whether virus, parasite or food allergy.   You need to eliminate the possibility of the commercial food making her sick.  Feeding her something that her body does not want will not provide her body with any nutrients it will actually deplete nutrients. 

I think you need to try the bland chicken diet that is being suggested.  As LDG says this is temporary.  If her diarrhea subsides then her body will be getting nutrients from the food whether your vet considers it optimal nutrition or not it will be SOME nutrients. as opposed to NONE.

As stated before Parasites/Amoebas etc are VERY hard to catch in stool.  The reason for this is that they have a life cycle.  Hatch...eat... lay eggs...die-off.  It is only at the eat stage that they will be detectable in stool. It is at the Die-off stage that the diarrhea will present at its worst because they will release toxins into the GI tract as they die.  You should journal her eliminations if they go through a repeated cycle between solid....soft...diarrhea that repeats every XX days then you can almost guarantee that it is a parasite or amoeba ... it is just determining the proper medication to kill them.  Many need specific antibiotics that are very harsh on the system.  You will need to use probiotics to replace gut flora.

You should also know that parasites etc feed on sugars and carbs....ie. GRAINS.  So it may not actually be the FOOD that you are feeding HER, but the food that you are feeding the parasites that is making her sick.

So again we turn to the bland chicken diet suggested above. And taking stool samples daily for a whole cycle and getting them all tested.

Now that I review the thread again, I suspect that this may be the case. 

You can eliminate the possibility of a virus because it wouldn't be this ongoing issue.

I do hope that you are able to find the source of her misery. 
 

denice

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I normally don't go against vet advice because I am not a vet or a vet tech but I think you should try this to figure out if it is diet related.  Boiled chicken or boiled chicken with rice is an old tried and true diet for sick cats.  It should not be used for more then a week, if it's used longer than that than it will create problems because it won't have the balanced nutrition that cats do need.
 

ldg

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Actually, this is advice from several of my vets. All of the ones we work with regularly. It's how we help rescue kitties that arrive with diarrhea - and still have it once they've been treated with antibiotics / probiotics. This is why I feel comfortable recommending it to people all the time. It has helped countless cats and kittens at this point.

Of course, I understand not wanting to go against the advice of your vet. This is the first time I've ever heard of a vet saying not to do it, but there has to be a first time for everything. :)
 
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balibabies

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Did you check for Tritrichomonas Foetus?  Alot of your symptoms are sounding like this ailment.  look up Jody Gookin on the internet.  She is the head researcher at University North Carolina and has a great website teaching about TF and explains the procedure for testing.  Good luck!
 

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Does anyone know why her eyes would be runny? Could this be an allergy to the IAMS. 
It is more likely that she has Feline Herpes. This affects the sinuses, eyes and throat. L-lysine supplements will replace an essential amino acid in the virus, and will stop it from replicating. My Herpes positive cats get 250mg twice a day for a maintenance dose, and 500mg twice a day when they have a flare-up.
 
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bh22

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Man,

So I've basically just gotten used to the fowl smelling, watery stools again.. I've a phone call into the vet to discuss Tritrichomonas Foetus to see if this was tested for when they did fecals on both cats. The younger cat isn't having problems as often (but once in a while), just Lucy mainly. 

I am considering the bland diet for a week. Although I have no idea how to go about it. I am SUCH a new cat mom I don't know how I was blessed with a sick kitty. Both cats have had runny eyes now, so the L-lysine will definitely be started this week.. I hope its not a horse pill too. 

Right now I am feeding blue buffalo kitten- chicken, mostly dry (basically to get everything under control) gave them some wet food of the same kind and Lucy exploded. I will likely slowly switch them to a new  brand (more natural) at some point... 

The S. Boulardii is helping, but I went on vacation for a week and had some family pill the cats, and Lucy developed a habit of running away from people, no matter what the purpose of their approach, so I stopped giving her the pill for a week and a half and employed some other techniques to reverse the habit. That did the trick, so now that she isn't running from me I am working on pilling her again with the S. Boulardii. 

Pilling has become a chore though and poor Ana is so small she gags on the pill no matter how far I get it down her little throat. If I pill them both twice a day with the S. Boulardii they do seem to have more normal stools. (Ana completely solid and Lucy solid 4/5 times). But again, this has become such a chore.  It doesn't seem to me that I would need to do this for the rest of their lives... right? So I guess my question on the S. Bourlardii, is how long should I be giving it to them, will there ever be permanent changes?

I adore these kittens and I want the absolute best for them- I am considering changing vets..

Thanks again for all the posts. This thread has given me so many valuable ideas!

So now the poor girls will have a cocktail of S. Boulardii and L Lysine. Joy!
 
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