How to cut back on fat?

I already take all the skin off. But both Mazy and Jennie have high cholesterol readings on their first blood work 10 and 11 months (respectively) after starting them on raw.

Their canned food portion is only 6% fat, so it has to be the prey model meals. But I don't see how there is any way to cut down on the fat, since I am already eliminating skin, and always have.

Any ideas?

What exactly are you feeding now? Just chicken?

Light meats, both chicken and turkey, are lower in fat than dark meat. Also, chicken hearts are fairly high in fat.

In rotation:

Chicken breast, chicken gizzard,chicken thigh, turkey breast, turkey gizzard, turkey thigh, cornish hen, duck, white or dark (about once every two weeks or less), beef (Mazy and Queen Eva, only, once a week)

Hearts, very rarely. (I supplement taurine)

Liver .1 oz a day for Jennie, Mazy and Queen Eva .05 oz a day

Jennie gets a wing tip or wingette once a week, with skin on.

Mazy gets one ounce a day of Rad Cat either turkey or chicken, both are less than 6% fat.

Queen Eva is the only cat who eats the RC lamb (high in fat)

Mazy is getting .35 oz raw eg yolk three times a week. Jennie gets .4 oz egg yolk once a week.

They still get Stella&Chewy's now and then but it's sporadic.

I wonder....could the egg yolk lecithin raise cholesterol?

PS the meals mentioned above are only part of the daily diet. Jennie gets 1.1 ounce (muscle/liver) and Mazy and Queen Eva each get .55 ounce (muscle/liver) a day in boneless prey model.

Mazy and Queen Eva each get 1 ounce of Rad Cat a day also, and the rest canned.

Jennie's remaining food is canned. Because of her unexplained weight gain she is down to 3.3 ounces of food a day. 1.1 oz boneless prey model and 2.2 oz By Nature canned. She has not lost any weight on this reduced amount. She used to eat 4.2 ounces a day.

Interesting question about the cholesterol. We'll be taking the rest of the crew in for annuals that haven't been likely in about three weeks, though the boys that all just had dentals had blood work done, and nothing was out of normal ranges - and two of them get 2 pills of EYL a day.

I did find this article: http://www.theheart.org/article/280769.do

Of course, it's a study in humans, and I believe cholesterol functions differently in cats, so I don't know how relevant this is. But it would appear that the EYL should not have an impact on blood serum levels of cholesterol (other than to LOWER it). :dk: Unless I'm reading that wrong, which is entirely possible.

Okay, so it's not the EYL, which is a good thing.

So I am back to the fat in the PMR meals.

I wonder if Queen Eva's would read high, too. She eats the Rad Cat lamb so gets even more fat than the other two, she also eats an ounce to an ounce and a half more in total quantity than they do, though she weighs 3 pounds less.

Did you fast them before the blood was drawn for the test? It's normal for blood lipid levels to be high for a few hours after eating until the body has a chance to absorb them.

Did your vet say you need to change their diet?

Thanks for your replies.

Yes, they were fasted. No, vet has not suggested I change their diet.

She was not overly concerned about the elevated cholesterol when it was just Mazy's. I haven't had a chance to discuss it with her further since getting Jennie's results back yesterday, she left me a message on the results of Jennie's (high cholesterol and sligtly elevated creatinine, just like Mazy's).

I will be talking to her tomorrow when Mazy goes back for her BG and urine recheck.

I like to have as much info as possible beforehand, which is why I started this thread.

How far out of "normal" are the values?

Looking up info on cholesterol in cats:

From a CRF site: http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis_blood_chemistry.htm

Cholesterol (Chol)

High cholesterol levels do not have the same significance for cats as they do for humans, but are usually secondary to some other disease. As in humans, bloodwork results will vary depending upon whether the blood is taken after fasting. It is not uncommon for CKD cats to also have increased cholesterol levels.

Occasionally, high cholesterol levels are seen in cats with nephrotic syndrome, but this syndrome is quite rare in cats.

Approximate normal levels (precise ranges vary from laboratory to laboratory) for cats are in this table.

Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine has some information about cholesterol levels.

Pet MD discusses cholesterol levels in cats.

Click to expand...

(There are links to everything in the original page).


From 2nd Chance Ranch: http://www.2ndchance.info/dxme-Cholesterol.htm This indicates elevated levels can last for 2 - 10 hours after a meal.

The PetMD site: http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/endocrine/c_ct_hyperlipidemia#.UfFq_m2y9Xk

Seems like if everything else is normal, the next step is to measure the levels at least 12 hours after a meal.

Thanks Laurie will look at the links later, have to go to work now, but to answer your question quickly

The lab says 220 is the high normal.

Mazy is at 265 and Jennie is at 335

Last year Mazy was at 132

otto said:

Thanks Laurie will look at the links later, have to go to work now, but to answer your question quickly

The lab says 220 is the high normal.

Mazy is at 265 and Jennie is at 335

Last year Mazy was at 132

Click to expand...

Wow, those are some high numbers. Their diet doesn't seem all that fatty to me. I guess the wing tip for Jennie is for dental health? Maybe you could give her a chicken rib (with attached meat) instead? Still, I wouldn't think that would make all that much difference.

I hope there isn't something else going on.

:scratch: Wow, that is strange.

Honestly, with SUCH a dramatic change, I'd be looking for other causes. I know the rest of the blood work is fine. And even stranger is that it's more than one cat. Did the vet have any thoughts about a full body x-ray to check for any masses or something? :dk:



Just FYI, the Rad Cat chicken 6% fat number is not on a dry matter basis. http://www.radfood.com/site/856/LabAnalysis2013.pdf

The moisture is 79.5%. On a dry matter basis, the fat content is 28%.

The Cornell site has a list of potential underlying causes. I'm sure your vet is familiar with all of them, and I'd think they all would have something that shows up in blood work (though pancreatitis doesn't necessarily - yet it in and of itself isn't a diagnosis either!). :dk:

https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/clinpath/modules/chem/cholest.htm

Otto, what are you giving them for their Omegas?  If I recall correctly, omega-3's are supposed to counteract the bad cholesterol.

As for fatty foods... duck and lamb are both fairly fatty.  But if you are already pulling off the skin, I really don't know what else to tell ya.

I just posted this in Aprilprey's thread on premixes, but you might find it useful. Really, other than using venison, I don't think there's much to do. I'll go check the numbers for cornish hen. ETA: Oh - I already have it in there. Yep. "Chicken, cornish game hens, meat only, raw."

You can click on it to make it larger.


ETA: I guess you could substitute some of the meat with egg white? We can look into how to adjust the calcium for that...

I just ran the numbers on the chicken gizzards. They're 10% fat (and 85% protein) on a dry matter basis.

Right, right DMB, forgot to convert.

Okay, those numbers, you're right my cats are not eating a diet that high in fat, in their PMR portions compared to some crappy kibble, or even (as my vet used as a comparison last time I was there) the Hills w/d dry which is 9% DMB

AND...since I was forgetting to do a DMB on the By Nature, I now realize it is rather high in fat at 27.27 %

Still though, many cats eat diets higher in fat than this.

By the way, Tolly always had high cholesterol. For some reason I had the impression it was something to do with his phenobarbital but I don't remember what, now.

I haven't had a chance to read the links yet. Just getting home from work and the cats need me and I am tired. In the morning, when I am fresh is when I will do the reading. Besides, don't want to get myself all worried before bed time at night. Mazy's re-check appointment (her blood glucose was slightly elevated, we are rechecking that, and her urine, and her ear) is at 1:00 and vet and I plan to discuss both cholesterol readings at that time.

Neither cat has any symptoms of any other problem, stools are perfectly normal. Of course Mazy has the regurgitation issue but that is so much improved as to be almost, almost, a non issue these days.

FMM they each get 500 mg krill every other day. Jennie was also getting the capsule too, to get more of the dose into her (the other two won't eat the capsule) but I gave that up when the weight gain started.

They also get the egg yolk lecithin, which is supposed to be a fat emulsifier.

Thanks for your replies everyone.

Okay, looked at the Cornell link after all. Can't understand most of it this time of night, but diabetes was my biggest concern for Mazy when she was still eating the Hills c/d. She has that LOW blood glucose reading that is being re-tested tomorrow. Her UA was normal as far as glucose.

Jennie didn't have anything in her bladder unfortunately, so I didn't get the UA done. I was worried about the carbs in the pumpkin Jennie was getting for so long, and took her off it completely several weeks ago (several weeks before the blood work)

triglycerides, lipase etc all normal.

Hi Otto,  Obviously the swing in your cats' cholesterol numbers is a concern, but I wanted to let you know that my two boys have had high cholesterol numbers for awhile (upper 200's, lower 300's) and no one (the vet, the oncologist, the internist...) has raised an eyebrow.  Now my boys certainly have their other health issues, so maybe the doctors are just ignoring this one, but it hasn't been mentioned AT ALL.  Clark goes in for another blood test next week. I'll be sure to ask the vet then, just to get another opinion.