7 months old kitten digestive issues

Hello,

I would greatly appreciate your advice on the following issue (I did read other similar subjects, still need advice):

Late May I took from the streets two stray kittens, boy and girl. The boy (about whom I opened this thread) had a bad case of herpes virus, his eyes were very inflamed, could hardly breathe and sneezed a lot. He was admitted at the vet's office for two weeks. Has had antibiotics for 5 days during that period.

After that I took him (and his sister) home. I noticed his stools were rather on the soft side (definitely not diarrhea but not firm and well shaped like his sister's and my other cat's). The vets were he stayed for two weeks did not mention anything about this, so I don't really know when this started. A couple days later no change in stool consistency, but he developed fever and started vomiting. He went for another treatment of antibiotics, antipyretic (to lower the fever) and antispasmodic for 7 days. No change in stool consistency, no diarrhea but no firm ones either.

He got better, he was vaccinated, he was spayed, recovered immediately from that (like in a couple of hours), no change in his stools. Still softer than the other cats, but not worse, not better. He was dewormed a couple of times already with different type of pills.

We gave him vitamins and other stuff to support his immune system.

Took him to the vet once more about this particular issue, they say "it's just his metabolism like that". I do not agree with this.

During this period his stool consistency remained the same, no matter what we fed him: Royal Canin Kitten mixed with Taste of the Wild dry food and Royal Canin, Schesir, Animonda and Applaws wet food. I would like to mention that in my country foods like Wellness, James Wellbeloved, Fancy Feast are not available. Taste of the Wild is pretty rare, too (my vet has it, though). I order their food online from a petshop in Germany, but still nothing much better than Taste of the Wild and Applaws. Anyway, I took him of the Royal Canin for two days now, he only receives Taste of the Wild and no grain wet food. His stool is even softer. My next move would be to try a no chicken food, but I really don't know what my options are (all dry foods available seem to have some type of dehydrated bird component in it).

Other than that, he seems to be fine. Runs a lot, plays a lot, drinks a lot, eats more than a lot. He gained a lot of weight (not yet on the chubby side, but not far from it). I would really like to find the cause of this issue.

Thank you.

I have a cat who cannot tolerate an all grain-free diet, so he gets a bit of Rx Royal Canin Gastrointestinal HE.  We only feed him about 1/8 C of dry food, and half of that serving is probably grain free and the rest is the Gastro HE.  This keeps his poops a nice consistency.  Also changing foods so quickly might be contributing to the problem as well.  What does the vet say?
 

stephanietx said:

Also changing foods so quickly might be contributing to the problem as well.

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Did the vets test him for internal parasites? Were stool samples sent to an outside lab or only tested at the vet's office? Depending on what is found, a longer course of antibiotics might be necessary. He might have a food intolerance and have to be put on an elimination diet to determine what ingredients he's sensitive to.

Does he absolutely have to have dry food? Looking at Zoo Plus's grain-free dry food, the TOTW Canyon River Feline has no poultry and neither does the Orijen Six Fish. Acana Pacifica and Granata Pet Adult Fish have chicken fat, but no other poultry ingredients listed. The problem is that fish itself isn't tolerated by every cat.

For grain-free wet foods, there are also Bozita, Grau and Catz (all complete foods, unlike the Applaws and Schesir, and available without poultry), but it would probably be a good idea to let him get used to one brand of food over several weeks before introducing a new one.

stephanietx said:

Also changing foods so quickly might be contributing to the problem as well.  What does the vet say?
 

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I did my best to change foods properly - always mixing the dry ones and rotating the wet ones. I might have rotated too fast and too much. I realize this now.

jcat said:

Did the vets test him for internal parasites?

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About dry food: the myth here is free-feed dry food and neuter at one year old. One of my other cats developed constipation because of dry food so I started reading more about cat nutrition. I am currently feeding wet and dry 50%-50%. Cannot switch to all dry YET because the constipated one will only have Applaws wet, but that's a story to be told in a different thread - this thread being about loose stools. Zooplus.ro (which delivers to Romania) do not have Orijen and Acana anymore, they have been out of stock for a few months already. They do have Bozita and Porta 21, I will order. I already have Grau but I did not introduce it yet.

About vets: Harley has been seen by 5 doctors until now. Tonight he was seen by the 6th.

First two doctors gave him an expired vaccine. We did not take him there since. They were more concerned about his rhinotracheitis and about his eyes, not about his tummy.

The next three doctors are a team I respect a great deal. Had all my cats spayed there (including Harley at 6 months, which is a NO WAY THIS EARLY around here), and I would trust them with any surgical issue. However, they have a "if the cat eats and plays, leave it alone" philosophy. They did not want to do blood work on him (he did have a lot of antibiotics in his system), they did not test for parasites (they gave him wide spectrum anti parasites stuff - Procox and Milbemax) and as long as he eats and plays, they will not stress him with what they feel it is unnecessary treatment. They said "maybe his metabolism is like that". As I said in my first post, I do not agree with this, given the fact that I scoop after him and see he is not as he should be.

So tonight we went to a sixth doctor, different clinic. She wants Harley on a gastro-intestinal diet (Royal Canin and Virbac) and finally someone thought of giving the poor guy some probiotics and pancreatic enzymes (Florentero and Entero-Chronic). We will see her again in five days.

As you see, I do not stay away from vets. The bills here really aren't that high, so it is not an issue. I would do whatever necessary. But I only have Sophie since August 2012 and Harley and Amelie since late May 2013. I do not try to find excuses for myself, but I am learning. This is why I am here.

Dry food is not great for cats and it is really not good for cats with stomach issues- I would for sure not advise switching to 100% dry and would encourage you to feed as much wet as possible. Soft stools sometimes mean a cat a IBD/IBS and a lot of people on here have cured their cats of diarrhea from switching to a raw food diet. A great resource of feline nutrition from a vet who is actually trained is www.catinfo.org. She also has a balanced raw recipe on their which may be worth a try.

Good for you for being proactive!  You're a good pet Meowmy.  Hopefully this last vet is onto something and is willing to work with you to find a good resolution.  We figured out Tumbles couldn't handle completely grain-free when he was about 8 or 9 mos old.  We'd had him on probiotics and metronidazole for about 2 months or so before we (us & the vet) agreed that it was something other than parasites.  She put Tumbles on the Royal Canin Gastro HE and in just a few days we saw normal tootsie roll poops!!  He's the only kitty I have that needs special food.  As I mentioned previously, he does eat grain-free canned and a mix of grain-free and prescription dry.
 

Franksmom said:

Dry food is not great for cats and it is really not good for cats with stomach issues- I would for sure not advise switching to 100% dry and would encourage you to feed as much wet as possible. Soft stools sometimes mean a cat a IBD/IBS and a lot of people on here have cured their cats of diarrhea from switching to a raw food diet. A great resource of feline nutrition from a vet who is actually trained is www.catinfo.org. She also has a balanced raw recipe on their which may be worth a try.

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I talked to the vet about not agreeing with a 100% dry and so she gave me Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal wet food (and dry too, Virbac only dry). Of course the wet is full of carbs, corn, gluten and other wonderful stuff, is high in calories (Harley is not at all a skinny boy), but right now I am willing to try this for 5 days, until our next checkup. He is a real sport about taking his probiotics and the Entero-Chronic.

About the raw: I am still reading about this and I am somehow in doubt it will work for us. There are 3 reasons for it:

1. quality of the meat I can buy. All chicken is injected with growth hormones, I do not dare to think what stuff they put into beef or pork.

2. I do not understand yet how parasites are not a concern when feeding raw.

3. I have a very fussy eater who would rather starve herself than eat anything but Royal Canin and Applaws.

stephanietx said:

Good for you for being proactive!  You're a good pet Meowmy.  Hopefully this last vet is onto something and is willing to work with you to find a good resolution.  We figured out Tumbles couldn't handle completely grain-free when he was about 8 or 9 mos old.  We'd had him on probiotics and metronidazole for about 2 months or so before we (us & the vet) agreed that it was something other than parasites.  She put Tumbles on the Royal Canin Gastro HE and in just a few days we saw normal tootsie roll poops!!  He's the only kitty I have that needs special food.  As I mentioned previously, he does eat grain-free canned and a mix of grain-free and prescription dry.
 

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Thank you. I am quite disappointed that I can't switch him on grain-free, I had my hopes up because Harley would eat anything so switching him on quality food would not be an issue. I do however hope we will find the cause of his loose stools sooner, the poor guy has been through so much until now. Last evening the doctor checked his eyes too (he had herpes virus) and his right eye is damaged for good (he is undergoing treatment for two months now, there is nothing more that can be done for his eye).

How long does it take to see the effects of a diet like this (gastro-intestinal)? And if it works, do I keep him always on this diet? Will you feed Tumbles like this all the time?

Are there any small local farmers who do not inject their meat? It does seem that there is a burgeoning organic industry in Romania (http://www.goodfoodworld.com/2011/10/organics-in-romania-the-promise-of-export-markets/) but this article states most of the food is exported but there may be some local farms that have hormone free meat. However, since the canned food and dry food is also from meat that is injected with hormones it wouldn't be much different from what you are feeding now. As for the the parasite here is a vet explaining why raw meat is safe for pets to consume (). You can always try giving them a piece next time you cook some meat to see if they will eat it. Your kitten will probably take to it right away.  My older cat won't touch raw yet but I try to give my kitten as much raw as I can and she really likes it. It is possible to transition picky eaters which i am currently trying. You can check out the raw food section for people's stories and tips.

Our Mogli came to us with major intestinal problems which a few months of RC Intestinal at the shelter didn't remedy. After several vet visits he was finally diagnosed with EHEC (normally caused by raw food, so I completely understand your caution) and IBD. The E coli infection cleared up after 10 days of antibiotics, and the IBD is currently under control following three months of Entero-Chronic and a low-fat, single protein diet. Entero-Chronic is available online without a prescription should you need to give it long term.

Mogli has been eating Vet Concept wet food, which doesn't seem to be available outside Germany and Poland. We started him on rabbit, then gradually added kangaroo and reindeer. One thing recommended by the vets and nutritionist was horse meat, which you should be able to get easily enough in Romania, though you might have to worry about drug residue.

Good luck, and please keep us updated. Having gone through the same experience for a few months, I know how frustrating it can be when nothing seems to work at first. The Entero-Chronic takes a while to take effect, but has definitely made a big difference for Mogli and doesn't have nasty side effects.

We saw consistently solid poops within a week.  We still feed Tumbles the Gastro HE, but we've experimented with him to see how much grain-free he can tolerate.  Like I said, he gets 2 large servings of grain free canned food daily.  This is his primary source of nutrition.  He gets approx 1/8 C of dry food daily and it's a combo of probably 75% grain-free and 25% Gastro HE.  Once your guy's tummy calms down and you've got consistent solid poops, then you can work on adding some grain-free to his diet and see how he tolerates it.  He may even grow out of it.

Thank you Franksmom for the link about raw being safe to consume. Very interesting. I know for sure that the two kittens (Harley and Amelie) love raw meat. And cooked meat. Harley growls when he receives (or steals) raw chicken. He does not growl when he eats any cat food. I will put some serious thought into this.

Until then... This is the second day of Florentero and Entero-Chronic and Royal Canin gastrointestinal wet and dry (I did not feed Virbac yet). He eats the Florentero by itself, it's a large pill and I divide it (he has half a pill in the morning and half a pill in the evening), he really likes it. Entero-Chronic is a powder which I should mix in the food or give with 5-10 ml of water with a syringe in his mouth.

Jcat, can you please tell me how you administer Entero-Chronic? Harley does not take it mixed with wet food and half of the powder is too much to mix in 5 ml of water.

Two poops until now. Maybe I am too hopeful and see signs where there are none, but I am sure I see a sly improvement in color (it is darker) and consistency (it's harder than a toothpaste but not yet firm as... ummm... nothing comes to mind to compare now). Sorry for the graphics.

Yes kittens tend to love raw meat it is like they instinctively know it is what they should eat. Take a look at the raw forum on here a lot of people have been able to successfully stop ibs with a raw diet. A really great thread is Carolina's (http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239771/...lucky-bugsy-and-hope-to-raw-challenges-galore) her cat Bugsy had his first solid poop the first day he had 100 percent raw. 

IrinaSaK said:

Entero-Chronic is a powder which I should mix in the food or give with 5-10 ml of water with a syringe in his mouth.
Jcat, can you please tell me how you administer Entero-Chronic? Harley does not take it mixed with wet food and half of the powder is too much to mix in 5 ml of water.

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I just sprinkled half a pouch of Entero-Chronic over wet food and Mogli ate it. Could you try it with 10 ml of water? Is there anything wet he really likes that you could mix it with? How about plain yogurt, cottage cheese or a little Whiskas cat milk?

I never fed yoghurt or cottage cheese, I do not know if he'll like it. Unfortunately, the vet said only diet food for five days, so until Monday I have to figure out ways to give the Enter-Chronic. I think I'll stick to the water, but I was a bit worried that 10 ml might be a bit too much for his stomach. I will try the options you suggested if Harley will have to have Entero-Chronic for a longer period of  time.

I will be a bit offtopic but I forgot to reply about the raw food: I manage from time to time to buy organic chicken. The poultry I can find in regular markets or hypermarkets is pinkish, tender, the meat just falls from the bone and it is pretty tasteless. The chicken I buy from peasants (chicken raised for own consumption in an unorganized back yard) is reddish, the meat is hard and you have to cook it a lot in order to eat it. It is very flavored and fatter than the hypermarket chicken. Unfortunately, I have to do my research regarding a permanent source of organic chicken.

About horses... Actually, you do not find horse meat in regular stores. It is sort of taboo here to talk about horse meat, but we all know that we can find it in salami and it is sometimes presented as a different kind of meat. I think they sell it in some special markets, where they also have boar and deer. I could find lamb and duck in designated markets, I guess. I do think I have to read more the raw feeding part of the forum.

It is evening here, I am keeping my fingers crossed for the evening poops (my life revolves around this lately, with a loose pooper, a constipated pooper and a hair band pooper - do not worry about the last one, the episode passed, it is Harley's sister, Amelie, the vet was announced immediately and she did not need surgery, she pooped it all).

Water would probably be best for mixing the Entero-Chronic - I'm not sure what impact dairy products would have on its effectiveness, but it could be a way to "jump start" his taking the E-C.. Homemade broth (i.e., no salt) might work, too, but you really don't know whether he has an intolerance to some sorts of meat. In Mogli's case, he can't eat any poultry, corn or wheat, which is why the Royal Canin prescription food not only didn't help, it made matters worse.

that Harley's poops solidify. I know what you mean about your life revolving around that! For a while, my husband thought I was becoming obsessed about Mogli's digestion. Of course, he wasn't the one cleaning the litter box umpteen times a day, running samples to the vets' office, worrying about possible malnutrition, etc..

One thing I found really helpful and am still doing is keeping a food/excrement/medication diary. It's a desk calendar, and I enter what food Mogli gets that day, any meds, and what his poop looks like. It useful for vet/nutritionist visits. It took a while to see some progress, but it was definitely there, and he's doing very well now, even after stopping the E-C a couple of days ago.

So we went to the vet this morning for our 5 days check-up.

There is some improvement in Harley's digestion, the color darkened, it is not so loose anymore, but it is not yet as hard as it should be. However, I do not know if the improvement is due to the probiotics and the Enter-Chronic or the diet. Or maybe both.

The vet said we should keep Harley on Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal for at least a month and a half and to continue the probiotics for 9 days (for a total of 14 days) and the E-C for 5 days (for a total of 10  days).

I am so ambivalent right now. I want to do what is best for Harley but I have a strong feeling that the Gastro Intestinal is not the solution. I would so much rather see him on a high quality diet. But what if my desires simply aren't suited for Harley? Maybe he is better of with Gastro and I should not think of switching him on a no grain wet food... How do you make the best decision?

If you've seen an improvement on the Gastro, it's probably a good idea to keep him on it for the time being. Six weeks will pass quickly, and then you can try slowly switching him to something better. How are you getting the Entero-Chronic into him now?

I mix the Entero-Chronic with water and give it to him with a syringe. 5 ml, 10 ml, depending on how well I can mix it (it is rather thick with just 5 ml - and I am talking only about half a pouch a time). He is such a good boy. If I would have to medicate any of my other two cats it would be a stressful experience for all of us. But Harley is wonderful. He eats the Florentero probiotic pill by its own, no tricks, I just put it in front of him and he eats it. When I give him the E-C he is so well behaved and gives me no trouble. And then, a few minutes apart, I put two ointments in his eyes for the herpesvirus. It is a wonder how he does not hate me.

We went to the vet today for another 5 days check-up. Harley's stools are 90% the way they should be, so I really think the Entero-Chronic and the probiotic are what he needed. He will be taking these for another 20 days, so that will be a total of one month of treatment.

However, the vets noticed Harley's lymph nodes are increased. He has no fever and no other symptoms. We have an appointment on Monday for blood work, we want to see the general hemoleucogram  and the condition of Harley's kidneys and liver in particular. The blood work is long over due.

He is otherwise full of energy and he eats A LOT (still on gastro-intestinal diet, dry and wet). He was 3,350 kg (7.38 lbs) two weeks ago, he is 3.715 kg (8.19 lbs) now, at about 8 months old (7 months and a half). He will be chubby soon if he'll keep growing horizontally only.

Offtopic, I am kind of stressed because we will be leaving for a 5 days vacation on the 8th of August. I have been working on schedule feeding my three cats, but only Harley and Amelie (Harley's sister) got the message. Sophie, my other girl, is starving herself. She will eat about 160 kcal in 24 hours, at 3.600 kg (7.93 lbs) - she is on the skinny and tiny side, she could use a pound or two more. I do not trust that my cat sitter will manage to feed each by their specific needs, so I am considering as an option to free feed gastro-intestinal to my entire crew while we are gone.

(Right now they eat:

Harley - half a pouch RC Gastro Intestinal and 30 g Dry in the morning, same in the evening

Amelie - half a pouch ANYTHING - Applaws, Animonda, RC, Grau and 30 g Taste of the Wild and RC Kitten, same in the evening

Sophie - she will receive half a pouch Applaws/Schesir - she used to eat these but now she won't touch them. She will not touch Animonda, Grau, RC wet. She also receives dry - tried anything from all RC types, Taste of the Wild, Applaws and Canagan. She does not eat those either so mommy chases her around the house with the food and then mommy panics and gives her treats for calorie intake. She is otherwise healthy. Has been a fussy eater since we got her, at almost three months old. She is now 1 year and three months old.) 

Sounds like he's improving!  Glad the Rx food and the probiotic are helping.