Is she an exotic hybrid?

maewkaew said:

  and more Chausie than Savannah.    

Ill have to google that, haven't heard of it before .  

Too bad she is not into dogs.   I wonder though, if with a careful introduction ,  a very calm, well-mannered dog who was not overly interested in her   and a human good at training and reading animal body language ,  it might work out.

Im dog is hyperactive and though he will leave things alone when told he will still have a 'crazy vibe' . I keep looking at her picture though. I don't know what draws me so much..i don't want to go meet her though in case she is lovely lol.

 I hope she does get a good hoe. 

Im not sure she swings that way...

 BTW,  you are right that there is a lot of variety when a breed is being developed with crosses.  and here we're talking not just about crossing breeds but species.  

jmljml commented that Savannahs are twice the height of a domestic.  This is not true for most Savannahs just some of the early generation ones,  1 or 2 generations from Serval.

I have been doing a lot of research on them, though I still basically know nothing. I wouldn't jump into anything but I think I might like to own one a savannah one day. Probably a lower gen one, as I have read servals can be a handful to say the least (Yes I realise Savannahs can be much the same, though I read they, if fixed at the right time, are less likely to spray).      

Click to expand...

maewkaew said:

 She is  reminiscent of some exotic hybrids.

Yes most definitely. Your eye for this keeps getting BETTER and BETTER! I might be out of a "job" soon

.

 Not Bengal so much.  and more Chausie than Savannah.  

. Definitely more Felis chaus hybrid then the other hybrids mentioned.

 I'm not saying she IS one of those.  

Me either

.

(and Chausies are still quite rare )

While the Chausie "look" is quite rare. Since, people do not seem to like the grizzled or ticked coat, I have way too many "giant" real odd hybrids, that I can only assume are some forum of Felis chaus. Plus, have all the other common hybrid behaviors, that of course do NOT show up in photo's.

I  couldn't absolutely rule out that she could be partly   one of those breeds, but I couldn't make the call from one photo.  

and

!

But she sure is a beauty!  

Indeed

.

and does look like she is long and tall and has some lovely big ears going on .  the rather wide nose, the eye shape. looks like a lot of ticking in the coat even though she is a mackerel tabby.... she does have some things about her that remind me of a Chausie.

There is a breeder, who right or wrong (I am not any T.I.C.A. judge

) breeder her pure Felis chaus male to mackerl tabby domestics. The resulting offsring look like giant (20 plus pound) leggy "domestics". Of course, they act like EVERY other F1!

and if they have good reason to think she is really around 1.5 years old,  this IS her adult shape and ear size.  so not just a growing teenager thing as I might have suspected. 

and

!

 Of course,  domestic cats also have a wild species ancestor -- OK, so it's thousands of years back   -- Felis silvestris lybica  ( the African Wildcat) . .

That is true. If anyone wants to see and learn about the Felis silvestris lybica it can be seen here: http://www.felineconservation.org/feline_species/wildcat.htm?

But there are some 100% moggies that look quite a bit like them!    Maybe it's a case like that. 

How often does that happen? I am curious

.


Too bad she is not into dogs.   I wonder though, if with a careful introduction ,  a very calm, well-mannered dog who was not overly interested in her   and a human good at training and reading animal body language ,  it might work out.

Yes, espically, if the cat is truly a hybrid. MOST bond very well with domestic dogs!

 I hope she does get a good hoe. 

I hope she gets a good home too

 BTW,  you are right that there is a lot of variety when a breed is being developed with crosses.  and here we're talking not just about crossing breeds but species.  

jmljml commented that Savannahs are twice the height of a domestic.  This is not true for most Savannahs just some of the early generation ones,  1 or 2 generations from Serval.  

I am not so sure about that. My F3 was much larger then a pure domestic. He was 12 inches at the shoulder when he passed away. I would need to look up his torso measurements, but, he was way longer then th average domestic. Plus, my Savannah was an F2 breed to red FERAL (not an intentional mating) and I saw picture's of him and he was TINY! So, I would say some F3's can be larger and much larger, as the "selective pressure" for size "add" via some breeders. But, in general yes, F1 and F2 are larger. It also depends, how much Leptailurus serval  genetics each particular cat gets. Plus, if, that individual cat is a "high percentage" cat (you know how that works).  

Click to expand...

DreamRaider said:

I love her ears and her over all lanky appearance.

Me too

.

And they said she is 1.5 years old so I don't know about the ears.

The lanky build and large ears, MIGHT indicate some type of exotic cat hybrid.

I was thinking about taking her but when I spoke to them she doesn't do Dogs so I decided against it.

Just my

for whatever it is worth, exotic cat hybrids (of any generation) tend to bond VERY well with a dog. As long as, the human has SOME control over the dog. I.E.: the the basic training commands like sit, down, and stay. Once, the hybrid cat feels safe, the dog and hybrid cat, bond VERY very well

!

Im usually someone who likes to adopt young- like kittens- and raise them but her looks made me interested.

I see

.

Its sad our shelter is so full they have them in the sheds outback where they cant be viewed also.

Do you mean, the shelter is so full of domestic cats? Or, the shelter is so full of cats, that look like that?

Click to expand...

DreamRaider said:

Thankyou! And wow that Cat is beautiful.

Yes, the early generation (F1-F3) foundation (F1-F4) cats are physically striking that is for sure

.

I had a look at google but there is this whole F# thing and SBT(I think?)

Yes, Savannah, just like all the other exotic cat hybrids (Bengal, Chausie and Safari) come in F1-SBT generations. The F stands for filial system. That is how scientists measure the percentage of exotic cat, in the hybrid. An F1 is 50% (on average) exotic cat and 50% (on average) domestic. An F2 is 25% exotic (on average) and 75% domestic (on average). So, the larger the F (filial) number, the lower the percentage of exotic cat blood. Until you get to SBT, which stands for Stud Book Standard. If you want a more complete explanation, please have a look at this website: http://www.savannahcatclub.com/savannah-cat-faqs.html


and I don't know what it means but I know depending on the F# some didn't really look like others. lol. Thanks for helping me out though.

The higher the Filial (F number) the more domestic cat. The lower the filial (F number) the more exotic cat. Hence, the large physical differences.

Click to expand...

jmljml19 said:

she looks to be just a tabby.

Yes, I completely agree

.

savannahs and bengals both have spots or circles on back and sides as well as some stripes on legs and chest 

I agree with all of that, minus the stripes on the chest. Have a look at this website: http://www.tica.org/public/breeds/bg/intro.php.

but this cat looks like she just has stripes all over.

I do not see stripes all over. But, I could be missing something

.

I could be wrong but i'd have to see more pics.

I could be wrong as well

. But, I completely agree, we need to see more photo's.

you could always just look up pics of savannahs and bengals and compare them to this cat and see if any look close to her.

Very very very good point

!

my roommate has 2 bengals and this cat doesn't look like either of them

I tend agree with you

. I do not see any of the "clasic" Bengal feature's.

so i'm thinking tabby cause savannahs are twice the height of a normal cat and she doesn't look too tall. below is a savannah cat

!

Click to expand...

DreamRaider said:

This cat is at the humane society and it just sais she is an 'exotic looking gal' .. I don't know enough to know for sure but could she be savannah or Bengal?

Personally, I do not see Savannah or Bengal in that particular cat. But, that does not mean anything. Have you "been hands" on with that cat? If so, most likely, she will have some "odd behaviors". Can you share, some of those "odd behaviors" with us? If, I was going to guess what type of exotic cat hybrid, I would say Felis chaus.

I want to say savannah but I am new to this and just learning the differences etc.

Like I said, I do not see anything but Felis silvestris catus in that particular cat. But, just recently, another member of TCS saw in there local shelter a "true" Savannah/Bengal. If you want more information on that cat, please have a look at this thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261247/is-it-a-bengal.
 

Click to expand...

DreamRaider said:

Thankyo for explaining the whole f thing to me.

Click to expand...

maewkaew said:

I think she looks like brown mackerel tabby with rather warm background color. . but Goldycat may be right she is brown mackerel torbie ( brown patched mackerel tabby ) . I'm just not seeing obvious red-based color. but it can be hard to tell from one small photo. .

Click to expand...

CaliSitPose.jpg

• GoldyCat
• Jul 24, 2013

maewkaew said:

 Oh  Cat Person . I know you know what a Chausie is!

Hey with me, one never can be so sure

. But, thank you, for having faith in me

!

I was answering Dream Raider on that.

Ditsy me, should have known that too

!

I need to start doing my answers like you do.

No, trust me, you don't

. You are much easier to understand, as opposed to myself . Plus, this "method" of posting is VERY time consuming!

Wow I didn't even know they were using Jungle cat hybrid females with bobtailed males to make  faux bobcat hybrids.

No no, see this is why I type the way I do (I am not clear

), the F1 females are either to Chausie standard or just have more "tabby markings". It is the MALE that is polydactyly, has curl ears and or a bobtail. If you want, I can post some catteries that do this "routinely". Then, it is the kittens (I call them F2 Jungle cat hybrids, there is some marketing ploy called a "Jungle Bob") that have some, all, or none of the characteristics of the male and are "marketed" as "Bobcat" hybrids.

 I mean  I knew there were a lot of people claiming to sell  bobcat hybrids but  have never heard of anyone having any PROOF that is what they really were.  

If you want see the catteries, that I am talking about, with your eye for the hybrids "you can piece it together". Does that make sense? If not, I will GLADLY paraphrase.

  I don't mean Felis silvestris catus looking so leggy as a Felis silvestris lybica.    but sometimes the head and coat pattern are strikingly like photos I have seen of F.s. lybica. 

I got you now

.

Click to expand...

maewkaew said:

Oh, of course,  now I remember hearing about  "Jungle Bobs".   In fact I had seen websites with those years ago.   weren 't some of them using poly Maine Coons?  

Yes, you are correct about the Main Coons. Now, some breeder's seem to just be using poly DSH's and whatever else "strikes" there "fancy". This is a very ethical breeder saying there Jungle Bob (this is why, I always say Chausie or Jungle Cat hybrid *insert nodding head) is an F2 Jungle cat hybrid. Please, have a look at this website: http://www.junglespots.com/resources.htm.

Maybe Bella's a Jungle Bob!  

I completely agree. Please note, Bella, could be an F3-SBT Jungle Bob.They can be any percentage/generation of Felis chaus x Felis silvestris catus.

( probably not really but  she has a coat sort of like a Pixiebob and a shape sort of like a Chausie.)    

The whole Pixiebob "concept" alludes me. They are, as least as far as I am concerned, a DSH, with some "interesting feature's". So, please feel free to correct me

, but why can't you breed a Pixiebob male to a Felis chaus hybrid? I don't see why not

.
 
I think they are usually bigger though?

With ALL the TRUE exotic cat hybrids, the females TEND to be SIGNIFICANTLY smaller. Have a look a this link please: http://www.dreamweavercatz.com/?page_id=137 (please scroll all the way to the bottom, it will explain Haldanes law, much clear then I can

. Lastly, please note, that this is a Savannah link. But, to the best of my knowledge, it applies to Chausie/Jungle Cat hybrid too

.

but maybe some of the girls aren't. )

An F2-SBT female, will be SIGNIFICANTLY smaller then a male of the same generation, via Haldame's law.

I think you were clear the first time what the breeding was  :   F1 Chausie female to a male with structural abnormalities ( polydactyl , bobtail , even curl-eared.....)   but I can see how  the way I wrote it,  if you read it quickly it could have sounded like I was saying  I thought the Chausie girl was bobtail.  
Yes, I am always reading these posts, way too quickly

. I am sorry for the confusion!
There have been people claiming for years to be selling  bobcat hybrids that they  say they are breeding.   but nobody ever presents any proof .  which if they just submitted DNA from  both parents and a kitten woud be provable even if there is not a test for bobcat ancestry. 

and  I agree with you a hundred percent!!!!!

and if they're admitting using JC hybrids anyway.  
ONLY some breeders are admiting to the Jungle cat hybrids. Some are NOT! But, with your eye, it is CLEAR they are using a Felis chaus hybrid. I can e-mail you the main cattery that does it! Plus, this cattery, uses Bengal's of various generations too

.
then it is not like they are avoiding the hybrid label because of bans.

Exactly

, I am not sure why breeders do what they do

. Other then, it MIGHT make the kittens easier to sell

?

I know there are some Pixie-bob breeders who do believe they are part bobcat but say they'd just as soon hang onto the domestic classification because of legal issues.  
In the USA, with the "legal climate" who can blame them! I sure can't!!!!!!
I have seen some Pixiebobs who do look amazingly wild & bobcatty,  and either they are indeed hybrids or it is  truly a feat of selective breeding  --which is certainly possible!  ,

Like I said, I am NO Pixiebob expert. But, I have NEVER seen a convincing one. Can you possibly show me? Pretty please with sugar on top

.

Click to expand...