What's the best choice of food?

Hello.

First I want to apologize if there are a ton of other threads like this one, but it would be nice to just be able to ask the questions myself.

So, I will be a first time cat owner at the end of july and I've been trying to learn as much as I can. (I am younger and am open to any and all advice to make this the best for my new addition).

My biggest issue in my research I've done, is food. 

I had planned on only dry food, but based on my research, I now know dry food is not that healthy. However would it be ok to feed one meal a day dry and the second meal canned food?

Another issue is that, I am really concerned about the grain free and by products issues and I don't want to feed friskies or food like that, however I don't want to shell out 50$ a month to buy canned food. I realize better quality is more money.

I'm looking at taste of the wild for my dry food and authority from petsmart for canned.

Any and all advice is much appreciated! 

-Darcy.

If you can make it work, I'd go with raw. Next best is a high quality canned food

Hi Darcya, and welcome to TCS!

Nutrition for kitties isn't overwhelming when you take a step back, and consider the concept of "species appropriate."

I just recently posted about this in what I hope is an easy-to-understand way: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261182/please-correct-me-if-this-is-wrong-thank-you

This site, written by a vet, is an excellent resource: http://www.catinfo.org

Kibble, by definition, isn't species-appropriate. It has a place, because some people don't have a lifestyle that enables homemade raw, which is much more affordable than "high quality" canned.

As to what defines high quality canned, basically, in my opinion, a food that has as few non-animal based ingredients as possible; that is high protein, has no grains, and is less than 10% carbs on a dry matter basis.

Dr. Pierson has a commercial canned food lust in the section of the catinfo.org website, commercial canned foods. They don't list ingredients, but are a good starting point, using the center columns, which list the macronutrients of the foods (protein, fat and carbs) on a dry matter basis.

I personally avoided soy anything over "by products." Cats in the wild eat the entire animal, by-products and all. . Things like kidney, pancreas and spleen may sound yucky to many of us, but they have lots of nutrition our cats can use.

For people that can't afford food without coloring or whatever, I recommend Fancy Feast classic style foods, and Friskies pate style foods. Yes, they have by products. But they don't have carrots and peas and potatoes....

Authority canned foods, as I understand it, are ok.

I also like By Nature 95% meats, or the By Nature Organically. Tiki Cat now has chicken-based foods. Soulistic is either the Petco or Petsmart store brand, and it's another one to consider.

...which raises another point. It's best to provide a variety of brands and proteins if possible. Just like we need a variety of foods, it's good for cats too.

Ok this isn't a reply but I don't know how to post a question on her like yours could someone please help?

Thanks for replying Ldg and ares.

I'll be honest the raw thing scares me a little because of bacteria. Also my mom is very weirded out by it and thinks its more expensive.

Either way, I've heard mixed information about by products. Some say that because it isn't plant based protein your ok, other say no because who knows what's in it.
Thank you for the other post link and the website which I have been looking over for a couple days now.

I realize you covered this in the other post, but maybe so I understand better, what is so bad about the carrots peas and potatoes thing?
Thank you again!
Darcy.

Carrots, peas and potatoes. This is true for veggies in general.

Cats are obligate carnivores. Their digestive systems have evolved to derive all the nutrition they need from only the prey the hunt. They will eat bugs and lizards, but a study published in 2011, an analysis of feral cat diets, found that cats are primarily rodent specialists, and eat nothing other than prey, typically and almost universally. Grass was found in their diets, but from the amount, it was concluded that it was principally incidental to bug hunting.

Cats' digestive systems are not set up to get the nutrition they need from vegetables or starches. They can digest some carbohydrates: but where people and dogs have numerous different digestive "pathways" to digest carbohydrates (starches and sugars), cats have just one.

So while they have the technical ability to digest some carbs, their bodies are not designed to digest what for a human would be considered a moderate amount of carbs. The natural diet of a cat is just 2.8% carbs on a dry matter basis. There are almost no dry foods with less than 10% carbs on a dry matter basis: most have more than 20%, and 30% isn't unusual. There are more canned foods with less carbs, but lower than 10% is still unusual.

We think of carrots as being healthy. But cats don't have the digestive enzymes needed to convert the beta carotene in carrots into vitamin A.

Pet Food companies market their products to appeal to humans. They are in the business to make a profit. And carrots, peas, potatoes, corn, etc that aren't fit for human consumption are much cheaper than any animal-based ingredients. Yet eating the amounts of non-animal based ingredients found in most foods places stress on all of their internal organs over time. As a result, more and more of our kitties suffer from diabetes, or hyperthyroid, or kidney disease, or inflammatory bowel disease, or "allergies," ....

So the best food for a cat is one its digestive system is meant to manage. And that is one that has no fruit and vegetables in it. The goal in choosing which commercial foods to feed, IMO, is just to minimize the non-animal ingredients.

In the end, kitties didn't eat our grain stores, they eat the animals that ate them. We don't put up fences around our vegetable gardens to prevent cats from eating whatever we have growing. .

If you want more technical information, I can post links.

Hope that helped?

xdanielleox, if you check your messages at the top right hand corner l've sent you a private message on how to do it
 

Sorry if I missed it, but did you mention whether you are getting a kitten or an adult cat? I ask because if you're getting a kitten you may want to plan for 3-4 meals per day. Adults are fine for 2 meals a day but kittens generally need smaller, more frequent meals.

Have you looked into ready-made raw food? I'm in Australia so I don't know what the price is like for you, compared to canned food. Perhaps you could feed some raw along with moderate quality canned?   

For an idea of costs, here is a comparison. The tables comparing costs are links at the end of the article: http://catcentric.org/nutrition-and...y-cat-or-i-can-afford-to-feed-commercial-raw/

I looked briefly at that one a few days ago. This time I got into the cost comparison that was a PDF document. Wow, from 20 cents to $5.48 per cat per day. Quite a spread of prices, types, and makers

Here is Dr. Becker's opinion on it, from Best to Worst:

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

I'm surprised that she disagrees with Dr. Pierson on the issue of dry vs. wet. Dr. Pierson wrote that ANY wet food was better than ANY dry food. Perhaps that's because this video is for dogs and cats? Dr. Becker does state that a moist diet is very important, especially for cats. If Dr. Becker is right, maybe that's a good compromise I can make with my mom -- to have a human grade dry food (which, according to Dr. Becker, is actually better than most of the canned food I've been feeding my cat) occasionally available. I'll have to think about this. Thanks for posting that video!

RavenCorbie said:

I'm surprised that she disagrees with Dr. Pierson on the issue of dry vs. wet. Dr. Pierson wrote that ANY wet food was better than ANY dry food. Perhaps that's because this video is for dogs and cats? Dr. Becker does state that a moist diet is very important, especially for cats. If Dr. Becker is right, maybe that's a good compromise I can make with my mom -- to have a human grade dry food (which, according to Dr. Becker, is actually better than most of the canned food I've been feeding my cat) occasionally available. I'll have to think about this. Thanks for posting that video!

Click to expand...

If you are talking about the pouches..... It is a different issue because of propylene Glycol - she made that very clear. Propylene Glycol is toxic for cats and should not be fed to them. So yes, in those cases, when present, I rather feed dry than feed something that is actually toxic.

Edit - I see... You are talking about #5, human grade dry food..... These are Rare..... To non- existing, IMHO. I think the closest would be Ziwi-Peak air dried Raw, and even them I am not 100% sure if that fits into "human grade" :dk:

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as an accepted "human grade" labelled pet food. Pet food manufacturers who use this marketing term can define it however they wish since there is no legal definition for it. In addition all rendered products which includes all "meals" included in dry food CAN legally contain 4-D animals.

vball91 said:

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as an accepted "human grade" labelled pet food. Pet food manufacturers who use this marketing term can define it however they wish since there is no legal definition for it. In addition all rendered products which includes all "meals" included in dry food CAN legally contain 4-D animals.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the thing..... At the moment a food goes into a pet food plant, that's the end of it - they are no longer "Human-Grade" - so Dry and Human grade does not go hand in hand......
Weird comment.....

Unless she is talking about something like Orijen:

"From cage-free poultry, nest-laid eggs, ranch-raised meats and wild-caught fish to sun-ripened fruits & vegetables, our fresh ingredients are raised locally, passed fit for human consumption, and then delivered to our kitchens fresh, preservative-free and loaded with goodness."
http://www.orijen.ca/bafrino/fresh-regional-ingredients/

Can't claim human grade, but it is MADE with human grade ingredients..... Maybe that's what she meant? :dk:

Orijen gave Bugsy a good 'ol UTI, so for me moisture VERY important :nod:

No, I was not talking about the pouches. Her list went:

1. Balanced homemade raw diet
2. Balanced commercial raw diet
3. Balanced homemade cooked diet
4. Human grade canned food
5. Human grade dry food
6. Premium quality canned food
7. Premium quality dry food
8. Veterinary canned food
9. Veterinary dry food
10. Grocery store canned food
11. Grocery store dry food
12. Semi-moist pouches
13. Unbalanced homemade diet

So, #5 -- human grade dry food -- is better (according to her) than any non-human-grade canned food, including premium quality (#6). I'd always thought that there was no accepted definition of "human grade," but since she's a vet, it made me wonder if maybe there is now. She implied that you can't find it in most stores. I can't imagine why she'd include it separately from premium quality unless it was actually different in some way.

On the other hand, Dr. Pierson said that ANY wet food (including #6, #8, and #10) was better than ANY dry food (including #5, #7, #9, and #11). Like I said, I imagine that Dr. Becker's list was designed to work with dogs and cats -- and dogs DO have a thirst instinct and do drink water -- while Dr. Pierson was talking only about cats. In other words, I wonder if Dr. Becker would prioritize canned foods more if she was only talking about cats, too.

vball91: What are 4-D animals?

I didn't watch the video. But apart from quality issues with even "the best" kibble, the bottom-line problem with kibble is moisture.

Kibble is typically 10% moisture.

Canned foods are typically 70-75% moisture. (Yes, you're paying for a lot of water, which is why it's so much more economic to make your own food).

Assuming the median of 72.5% moisture in canned foods, for every 1.5 ounces of kibble eaten, a cat must drink almost 4 ounces of water to be the equivalent of eating 5.5 ounces of canned food. But 1.5 ounces of kibble is likely much less than the recommended feeding amounts. But to know how much water they need to consume, weigh the amount of kibble being eaten / fed / recommended daily. For every 1.5 ounces, multiply by 4 ounces of water to know how much water they need to drink daily. None of my cats ever drank that much when on kibble.

Kibble basically robs the body of water; it requires water to digest the kibble, which is why cats eating a kibble-based diet are typically chronically mildly dehydrated; this places major stress on their organs over time.

RavenCorbie said:

vball91: What are 4-D animals?

Click to expand...

Downed, dead, diseased, dying. Animals not fit for human consumption, including road kill, dead zoo animals, euthanized pets; animals that died on the farm, not in a USDA slaugherhouse.

RavenCorbie said:

No, I was not talking about the pouches. Her list went:


1. Balanced homemade raw diet

2. Balanced commercial raw diet

3. Balanced homemade cooked diet

4. Human grade canned food

5. Human grade dry food

6. Premium quality canned food

7. Premium quality dry food

8. Veterinary canned food

9. Veterinary dry food

10. Grocery store canned food

11. Grocery store dry food

12. Semi-moist pouches

13. Unbalanced homemade diet


So, #5 -- human grade dry food -- is better (according to her) than any non-human-grade canned food, including premium quality (#6). I'd always thought that there was no accepted definition of "human grade," but since she's a vet, it made me wonder if maybe there is now. She implied that you can't find it in most stores. I can't imagine why she'd include it separately from premium quality unless it was actually different in some way.


vball91: What are 4-D animals?

Click to expand...

Yeah, we have been discussing it above....
dead, dying, disabled, or diseased - that can include road kill, shelter and vets euthanized "pets", slaughter house carcasses, etc.