Juvenile Gingivitis

ravencorbie · Jul 6, 2013

I'm really confused right now, but going with what my vet said unless I hear otherwise from more than just a video.

My new cat has juvenile gingivitis: she has a thin red line next to her teeth on her gums. I watched a Cornell University video on how to brush teeth, and my vet did say I should start brushing her teeth. I'm getting her acquainted with the toothpaste, but unfortunately, the tooth brush hasn't arrived yet, and none of the local shops had the right kind, so I'll start on that as soon as it comes. My vet basically said to keep brushing her teeth, and that we would watch it. She said a professional cleaning was not necessary yet.

The video, though, said that this stage of gingivitis could be reversed with a dental procedure. A lot of sources I read said that if the gingivitis wasn't treated aggressively when young, it could cause major problems later, including losing her teeth, and that she'd have to have professional cleanings twice a year. The Cornell video said that once it progresses (if it progresses) to periodontitis, you can't reverse it.

I don't want to do anything that really isn't necessary, but I also don't want to have to worry about her losing teeth. In addition to brushing her teeth, I've added a dental supplement to one of her meals, give her dental chews (CET), and am waiting on a chew toy that was recommended on another thread. I'm also looking into giving her cut up chicken wings to gnaw on, but I'm still worried about bone pieces and internal injuries.

The vet was pretty firm about not needing any extra work, but what do the rest of you think? Should I be more firm about asking for something more? What experiences (if any) have you had with this condition? Will it go away on its own? Will it just stay the same, with no real major problems other than the inflammation (and if so, although I've read the inflammation isn't painful, how do we know?)? Or will it get worse even with daily cleanings if she doesn't get additional dental procedures?

ldg · Jul 6, 2013

I probably read it in another thread, but how old is your kitty?

Spooky first saw the vet when she was spayed about about four months old or so. She then saw the vet when we rescued her back after a bad adoption (we were still learning about cat rescue). I don't remember the vet mentioning gingivitis, but we took our cats for their first dental when they were a little over one years old. She needed a tooth extracted.

:vibes:

ravencorbie · Jul 6, 2013

She's 8 months old. They found it on her first regular visit to this vet, about a week after I adopted her.

ldg · Jul 6, 2013

Hunh. If she has gingivitis at 8 months, I'm kind of stumped as to why the vet doesn't want to go ahead with her first dental. If this were me, I'd get one done.

ravencorbie · Jul 8, 2013

Okay. I'll call her about it. I really don't want my cat to have mouth problems her whole life!

mservant · Jul 8, 2013

My 2 year old boy cat was diagnosed with gingivitis when he was about 7 months old. It started as a fine red line around his gums and nasty breath but he rapidly got very poorly when he started teething and his mouth became really red and ulcerated. The vets administered antibiotics and pain relief for the infection and strongly advised an ongoing maintenance plan of special dental food only plus daily tooth brushing with suitable animal toothpaste. Like you I read all about it and was terrified he would be in pain and loose his teeth when still young. I stick rigidly with the vets advised plan and it has managed his oral health well - with only a couple of episodes which have been less acute than the first. If I don't stick to the plan, even for a day if friends are in and he gets extra treats, the redness is back around his teeth within days and I have to be extra vigilant. Boy cat seems to love the food and likes nothing better than having the biscuits thrown across the room so he can chase them before he crunches in. He also thinks the toothpaste is a treat and jumps up to lick it off the brush before I rub his gums. Even after 2 years he hasn't tired of the routine which is such a relief for me. Because it has kept plaque and infection under control the vets haven't had to carry out any dental work or cleaning and I live in hope they never will. In fact his teeth look squeaky clean and better than any other cat I know! It really is worth the effort of getting the right dental care food and teeth cleaning.

Sadly he has also developed other symptoms over the past year including periodic sneezing and runny eyes and the vets now think all the symptoms are related to feline herpes virus and have added in antiviral medication when he needs it. He's such a funny boy with the most gentle and playful nature I could ever have dreamed of. He takes all his dental hygiene routine (and medication when it's needed) as if it's all a big game with treats so I hope he will stay healthy for many years to come and not need to go through too many invasive procedures and sedation at the vets.

I hope you find something that works for your cat too.

ravencorbie · Jul 8, 2013

Oh, that's a relief. I'm going to start brushing as soon as the toothbrush arrives (still not here!). As for the special dental food, I'm going to forego any dry food and go with something else she can gnaw on. I'm a little worried about chicken wings, but I might give her cut up pieces of muscle meat alongside her regular diet. I haven't had a chance to read all the articles and websites that were recommended to me when I was asking about food and dental health -- wings was the biggest answer, but I'm worried about the bones. They gave me sites to look at, and once I'm sure it's fine, I'll probably go that way.

After reading everything that's bad about dry food, I really don't want to go down that path. I'm assuming the special dental food is a dry food -- is that correct? My dentist did give me some dental treats, which thankfully, my cat really likes. I've also been putting a natural plaque reducer (though I'm possibly giving in to a fad) with her regular canned food. I have some liquid to put in the cat's water, but since I've switched to wet food, she never drinks water (and according to at least one site -- I think it was the Way of the Cat, but I'm not sure --, cats only drink water when they're seriously dehydrated, so I'm not too worried -- though I do keep water dishes out and change the water every day. But she isn't even interested in drinking from the faucet anymore. So, there's really no point to the stuff to put in the water.

Any other thoughts?

ldg · Jul 8, 2013

Well, there really is no substitute for brushing teeth. Genetics plays such a large part in this. Spooky is one of our siblings we rescued 11 years ago. She is the only one to have the extensive dental issues; she's lost 5 teeth in her 11 years, despite brushing her teeth daily and annual dentals. We don't brush any of the other cats' teeth, and until this year, no one else ever needed teeth pulled (other than when first rescued, damage done before they came to us). So her three siblings are completely different when it comes to their gums and teeth.

...and there is no substitute for annual dentals. Our cats visit the vet for annual health check-ups; we had a lot of cat-health related expenses over the past several years, so we skimped on the annual dentals for some of them. The vets kept saying for all the other kitties, their teeth look good.

Well, we're finally catching up on those dentals. And one of our cats just had two teeth removed. They looked fine on the outside: but x-ray indicated that the root and been resorbed. This is a condition known as Feline Odontoclastic Resorptive Lesion (FORL), and it is, according to our vet, extremely painful for the cats.

I don't know if this would have been prevented with regular annual dentals or tooth brushing; perhaps it just could have been caught sooner. But one thing is for sure: Sheldon was in a lot of pain longer than he needed to be, because what was happening to his teeth was not visible without the x-rays they get when they get their dentals with anesthesia done.

mservant · Jul 9, 2013

It is definitely down to genetics and luck. I had 2 sister females before Mouse and they had perfectly healthy teeth until they 'moved on' aged 18 and 21. I'm lucky in that my boy is really good at drinking water so dry biscuits are OK for him. He instantly preferred them to the wet kitten food that he'd been given before. I was a bit worried starting him on the special diet before he was a year old but the vet assured me it was the best thing I could do for his health at the time and it certainly worked for him. The vet keeps a close eye on him and I just hope he can keep all his teeth for as long as possible. I think you just have to go with what works best for your own cat, you know how they respond to different things. If your cat didn't drink plenty water I'd be worried as the dry dental food is very high in fibre that scrapes the teeth.

ravencorbie · Jul 9, 2013

Yeah, she doesn't drink much water at all. She drank occasionally when I was giving her both dry and wet food, but still not very much. Now that she's on all wet food, she doesn't drink water at all. She's urinating plenty, though, so I know she's hydrated enough from the wet food, and this is probably one of the reasons she much prefers the "chunks in gravy" type foods to the pates. I haven't looked them up, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had more water in them.

As for brushing -- no, I'm definitely NOT planning on using any of these things as replacements for brushing, but rather supplements to brushing. I feel you should brush their teeth even if their teeth look fine, and her mouth ISN'T fine, so I want to do more than just brushing.

LDG - thank you so much for sharing your story about your cats. I'm sorry Sheldon had to experience that unnecessary pain. That's always sad. I'll definitely schedule a dental.

MServant - I'm so glad that what you are doing works for your cats. I hope he can keep his teeth as long as possible, too!

ravencorbie · Jul 13, 2013

Update:

I've scheduled a dental cleaning on July 23. I've received all the dental stuff I ordered, including the chew toy recommended, the toothbrush, the toothpaste, chews, etc. I've been handling her mouth gently with my finger during our grooming sessions (she's medium haired, so I brush her everyday -- though I need to get a comb) with treats.

She *seems* to be improving, so that's good, but it's hard to tell because I can't keep her mouth open very long. I've also been doing "Week One" from the Cornell University video on brushing (having her lick the toothpaste, and leaving the brush out so it's "normal").

I haven't done anything in the way of food yet, other than putting out pieces of raw meat (so far just beef) for her, which she's ignored. I'm hoping that when I do it with chicken, she'll be more amenable, since I already know she doesn't really care for beef or venison canned food.

ravencorbie · Aug 31, 2013

Another update: She had her dental yesterday. According to the vet, she had mild tartar and moderate gingivitis. She gave me some Biotene Veterinarian strips that I'm supposed to apply to her gums twice a day. According to the Cornell video, I need to wait 10 days before starting the brushing again, to allow her mouth to fully heal from the dental visit.

I'm irritated because they're a really small practice, so they have very specific hours. I stupidly scheduled a play practice for my theatre students from 4-5 last night, but the vet closes at 5:30. I thought I could still make it, but one of my students' mother couldn't make it until 5:30, so I had to be there. I called to see if someone could wait at the vet's, but they couldn't, so I picked her up this morning. I knew that that might be an issue when I chose them, so I'm not irritated with them so much as I'm irritated with the situation in general.

The problem with that is that I haven't had a chance to talk to the vet directly. The information about the tartar and gingivitis came from the receptionist that I called at 2 yesterday, and the Biotene instructions were on a paper. I really love this vet (when I asked about nutrition, she sent me to catinfo.org, and it's clear she really loves cats), but I wish they had better after hours service. The lady I spoke with today isn't even a receptionist and she didn't know anything.

I'm planning to pick up some gizzards at the grocery store today or tomorrow, and I hope that will help in addition to everything else I'm doing.

mservant · Aug 31, 2013

I haven't heard of the Biotene dental strips but assume they will help with hygiene to help the gums heal after the dental? I hope they help and your little cat is happy to go back to the brushing routine afterwards. Good that there doesn't seem to be any sign of root problems though I'm sure you'll feel better once you've managed to talk to the vet.

Once you get back in to the brushing and are using the brush hopefully it will be a little easier for you to check on your cat's gums, that's when I usually check Mouse's. He's also quite obliging with wide yawns so I get a good (finger safe) look at the back of his mouth, tongue and angle of his jaw when he does that.

Some other advice I've had on this site was from LDG and it was about introducing probiotics to improve the immune system for cats with things like stomatitis? She posted the information including type and doses in the thread I started, asking Advice Please, Looking to Add Wet Food to TD kibble diet - her psot was almost 3 weeks ago if you want to look for it. Might be worth you trying that too? I've just started giving Mouse L Lysine for his herpes virus as his eye was runny again but plan to introduce the probiotics once he's used to that. I don't like trying too many new things all at once in case there's a problem - and for what ever reason the red rim around his gums is darker and thicker this week.

ravencorbie · Aug 31, 2013

Yes, I have some probiotics -- the ones mentioned in one of the threads here -- Nexabiotic, I think it is? I didn't know it helped with gingivitis/stomatitis, though. That's great! I'm going to start it once I've finished the pearls I'm taking myself, and split them up 40/20 (40 for me and 20 for her, since she'll get half a capsule a day rather than a full one), so that I can get the next bottle for both of us at the same time. I do check her gums fairly regularly. The parts that weren't as bad to start with have improved (around her front teeth), but in the back, there's been no change at all since I first got her.

The Biotene, as it turns out, is a gel. It was confusing because the instructions say to put a 1/2 " strip on her gums, and I initially read it as 1/2 strip (i.e. half of a strip), which is why I thought it was strips. It seems to be similar to an antibiotic in that I have to use it twice a day "for 5 to 7 days or until the infection clears."

Thanks for the information and advice!

treice · Aug 31, 2013

RavenCorbie said:
I'm really confused right now, but going with what my vet said unless I hear otherwise from more than just a video.

My new cat has juvenile gingivitis: she has a thin red line next to her teeth on her gums. I watched a Cornell University video on how to brush teeth, and my vet did say I should start brushing her teeth. I'm getting her acquainted with the toothpaste, but unfortunately, the tooth brush hasn't arrived yet, and none of the local shops had the right kind, so I'll start on that as soon as it comes. My vet basically said to keep brushing her teeth, and that we would watch it. She said a professional cleaning was not necessary yet.

The video, though, said that this stage of gingivitis could be reversed with a dental procedure. A lot of sources I read said that if the gingivitis wasn't treated aggressively when young, it could cause major problems later, including losing her teeth, and that she'd have to have professional cleanings twice a year. The Cornell video said that once it progresses (if it progresses) to periodontitis, you can't reverse it.

I don't want to do anything that really isn't necessary, but I also don't want to have to worry about her losing teeth. In addition to brushing her teeth, I've added a dental supplement to one of her meals, give her dental chews (CET), and am waiting on a chew toy that was recommended on another thread. I'm also looking into giving her cut up chicken wings to gnaw on, but I'm still worried about bone pieces and internal injuries.

The vet was pretty firm about not needing any extra work, but what do the rest of you think? Should I be more firm about asking for something more? What experiences (if any) have you had with this condition? Will it go away on its own? Will it just stay the same, with no real major problems other than the inflammation (and if so, although I've read the inflammation isn't painful, how do we know?)? Or will it get worse even with daily cleanings if she doesn't get additional dental procedures?

treice · Aug 31, 2013

Hi I just found out my kitten has GINGERVITIS also, Oreo (kitten) wasn't feeling well so I took him to his vet. I was told his teeth were loose and he had GINGERVITIS, the vet informed me kittens loose their baby teeth and the new one's come in but he wanted to pull Oreos teeth. I asked if it was necessary at that moment or could we wait a couple days to see if they would come out on their own. The vet gave Oreo a shot of penicillin and sent us home with amoxicillin to take twice a day and went back in three days the teeth were out and he was alright. I have to brush his teeth though.

mservant · Aug 31, 2013

Treice said:
Hi I just found out my kitten has GINGERVITIS also, Oreo (kitten) wasn't feeling well so I took him to his vet. I was told his teeth were loose and he had GINGERVITIS, the vet informed me kittens loose their baby teeth and the new one's come in but he wanted to pull Oreos teeth. I asked if it was necessary at that moment or could we wait a couple days to see if they would come out on their own. The vet gave Oreo a shot of penicillin and sent us home with amoxicillin to take twice a day and went back in three days the teeth were out and he was alright. I have to brush his teeth though.

Hi Treice. How old is your kitten? Is it his kitten teeth that have come out since you saw the vet and given Oreo the antibiotics? And was it the kitten teeth the vet wanted to take out or Oreo's adult teeth?

treice · Sep 2, 2013

Hi, it was Oreos kitten teeth and the ones that the vet wanted to take out. Oreo is back to normal now, but it took two days. If it was up to the vet he would've did the procedure the next day.

treice · Sep 2, 2013

I'm sorry Oreo is about five months now.

mservant · Sep 2, 2013

Good to hear Oreo's still doing well and it was his kitten teeth vet was looking at - and most of all that they came out naturally.

Hopefully Oreo has just had a problem while he was teething and it will now settle with good daily oral care and diet. I believe it is possible!!! Do keep up the brushing and watch his gums closely for any new signs of redness - also any breath odour or going off his food. (I used to describe Mouse's breath as 'meaty' when his gums got bad). Gums can look OK one day then something will irritate the cat's mouth and they will have sore red edges around their teeth the next day and if you don't catch it quickly it is more likely to get worse. I'd keep an especially close eye until all his adult teeth are through and his mouth has had a chance to settle down. Fingers crossed this is a temporary phase for your little boy.

Juvenile Gingivitis

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