The Vet and I are stumped!

dragulescugirl

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This is going to be a slightly long post - but I'm hoping some of you with more experience can give me some feedback or advice into what may be going on with my cat.

About a month ago my cat began vomiting and had diahrrea about once a week. Often there were hair balls in it but it was all his food and liquidy. His behavior was normal and it wasn't frequent enough that I thought I should be concerned.

About 3.5 weeks ago I came home to a very lethargic and wailing cat. I knew something was wrong with him and took him to the ER. The ER doctor called me once I got home and asked me to read some of his numbers to him. They thought he had kidney disease and his kidneys were failing as his BUN level was very high and he was very dehydrated. But 9 months earlier he had blood tests done that showed a completely normal BUN and both the ER vet and mine ruled out kidney disease.

I took him to my vet the next day and she ran tests where his pancreas was slightly high but everything else was normal. By the day after that, his bloodwork was completely normal.

I should also note that he had dropped a little under 3lbs in those 10 months as well. Some was expected as we had switched all the cys to a new low calorie food bur still... Alarming! We scheduled a checkup for when I brought all my cats in for bloodwork and she warned me that if he continued to lose weight it could possibly be pancreatitis as that was the only organ she had found inflamed in her X-rays and ultrasounds.

He spit up a couple times again one day and had another round of diahrrea. I called my vet and she said we would check him at the next visit.

Two weeks later (July 2nd) I was bringing all my cats in for their yearly bloodwork. We had hopped he would gain .25lbs and he had gained .3! Everything in his bloodwork came back as completely normal and the vet thought that he had eaten something toxic and rules out pancreatitis. We thought it might be a roach trap that we found moved away from its location and everyone was satisfied with the results.

Two days ago he spit up very green liquid with a giant hair ball. He continued to spit up and wouldn't eat but would lick the juice or gravy from all the canned food I tried to entice him with. My husband said he thought he would eat overnight so I went to bed.

Yesterday I came downstairs to see another giant hair ball in green liquid and more spit up all around the floor. I found him in the kitchen, lethargic and wailing again. I called my vet and she sent me to a specialist.

The specialist did an ultrasound and said they thought they found the issue. A hair all was in his stomach and intestines and was causing a block and again making him severely dehydrated. So we needed surgery to get it out. Additionally his BUN numbers and creatin numbers were VERY high. 75 and 5.1 I believe. Now remember, three days before everything was normal. Something like 24 and 1.2.

I took him back to my vet who performed the surgery but here is where things get interesting. She couldn't find the hair ball in the stomach. With the liquid he had been getting it had started to work its way through the intestines. It wasn't a block. But his stomach and intestines were very thick and the stomach was filled with gas and liquid. The organs were inflammed but all smooth and without any bumps. She went ahead and took samples for a biopsy (results Tuesday) but said she didn't believe it was the hair ball. He spent another night at the ER to get fluids and watched. Today he was lethargic and still a little dehydrated but she said it wasn't unusual as he had surgery and was probably not feeling well. It looks like he will be at overnight care for at least tonight and maybe tomorrow.

So here is where we are stumped. She has ruled out kidney disease, lymphoma, pancreatitis, and diabetes.

The biopsy should let us know if it is IBD and the specialist said it could be Addison's Disease - but my understanding is that is very rare in cats.

Are there any other suggestions as to what this could be? Any other routes we should look into?
 

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First of all, I'm so sorry for your poor baby boy! :heart2:

Our Ming Loy just had a bout of "pancreatitis." Her ALT was elevated - the vet felt it could be temporary, from the vomiting. Further, as I think you already know, the elevated BUN by itself isn't overly significant; if combined with elevated creatinine AND diulte urine, then that's a sign of kidney issues. But that's when the urine is dilute, that's the important part.

SO... with Ming Loy, the cause of the inflammation in her pancreas wasn't known. But she recovered in one week and one day to 100%. At that exact same time, Flowerbelle got ill with the same symptoms sans the vomiting. She was sick for a week, recovered, and then Sheldon had the same symptoms! We talked it through with the vet, and realized that the timing was such that we most likely brought home a virus from rescuing two kittens.

I'm sorry I don't have suggestions as to what else to look for... but the way we treated Ming Loy was with 100ml of fluids daily, very frequent small meals, and digestive enzymes added to her wet food. We used highly digestible chicken babyfood (Beechnut; Gerber's now has cornstarch in it) for the first 3-4 days, until she was starting to feel better, then her usual food. (We feed raw; I'd recommend feeding at least wet food if you normally use dry).

IMO, it's entirely possible his stomach and intestines are thickened from the diet he's been on. I'd discuss with the vet the use of things that will help his insides heal: slippery elm bark powder (our holistic vet recommends 1/4 teaspoon mixed with one teaspoon of George's Aloe vera juice once or twice a day. George's only, because it has no preservatives and does not include any of the latex, which is toxic to cats); a species-appropriate diet (if he's not already on 100% wet diet with only animal-based proteins, no grains and low-carbs); probiotics daily (again, our holistic vet suggests human probiotics, because they're live cultures not fermentation product, which the pet products are made of); and the use of omega 3s, like 500mg of krill oil or 500mg of salmon oil daily.

Also, to prevent hairballs and improve gastric motility, consider egg yolks, when appropriate to introduce them: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/250653/egg-lecithin-for-hairballs

An excellent IBD resource: http://www.ibdkitties.net

Feline nutrition: http://www.catinfo.org

I hope this helps in some small measure. :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:
 

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Oh my goodness! You've done an amazing job taking care of your kitty!

Just as clarification, did the vets confirm there was a hairball, but say that it had moved by the time surgery came around? I definitely think your kitty doesn't have kidney issues, just dehydration. If it is Addison's, could his getting into poison affected the adrenal glands?

There's an amazing Yahoo group that deals with cat health issues: WholeCatHealth, if you want to ask over there. They have seen lots of stuff, and you might be able to get some suggestions. I'll warn you that they are big on raw feeding/no vaccines/homeopathic (some are pushier about it than others), but besides that they are wonderful people who can offer great advice. As is often said on that group, take what you want from what is offered to you, and leave the rest. :)

And, not to sound like a total crack, but have you ever consulted an animal communicator? I spoke to one about Petra, and she was able to really connect the dots with a lot of Petra's health issues. She also did an "examination" and confirmed almost everything the ultrasound confirmed (no cancer, no IBD, no pancreatitis, etc.) WEEKS BEFORE the ultrasound was done! The only thing she didn't "see" was the stricture in the ureter! She's not really expensive and she's given me great cat behavior advice, too. :) PM me if you want her contact info. She says that she only accepts payment if you think it's helped - if you don't, then don't pay her. She might be able to give you a suggestion about which direction to go with next with your testing.

I'll be sending good vibes back at you and your kitty - hoping he feels better soon and that you can get a concrete diagnosis.
 
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dragulescugirl

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Thanks for the great advice!
LDG - I actually read your Ming Loy posts top to bottom as I was doing heavy research on pancreatitis. The cats will definitely be moving to all wet and I'll ask about the Aloe Vera. I assume my vet would be okay as she had suggested mineral oil and pumpkin in the past.
macnik6 - the first X-rays from the first vet showed no blockage, the ultrasound two weeks later showed the hair all blockage and two hours later my vet in surgery (via X-ray first) saw it had moved down the intestinal track. I'm not opposed to an animal communicator but I'm on the west coast. Can she do it via phone? Or Skype? And I will check out that site! I will do anything to help him!
 

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The communicator's name is Gayle, and her website is here. She does most everything over the phone, so you being on the west coast won't be a problem. One of the best things about her is that she used to be a vet tech, and she considers herself just one part of the holistic care of your cat.

The first couple times I talked to her, I told her the bare minimum, because I was very skeptical. Then I became much less skeptical, and I started just putting everything in email ahead of time, so I didn't waste valuable minutes. ;-) I would decide what you want to tell her about your kitty, and put that in an email when you contact her. It could be anything from he's sick and had surgery and they don't know what's causing him to be sick, or the full details like what you posted here. Tell her Petra's mommy sent you. :-)
 
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ldg

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...The first couple times I talked to her, I told her the bare minimum, because I was very skeptical. Then I became much less skeptical, and I started just putting everything in email ahead of time, so I didn't waste valuable minutes. ;-) I would decide what you want to tell her about your kitty, and put that in an email when you contact her. It could be anything from he's sick and had surgery and they don't know what's causing him to be sick, or the full details like what you posted here. Tell her Petra's mommy sent you. :-)
I'm not familiar with this particular animal communicator, but I work with one, and have referred her to a number of people on TCS. We were also skeptical at first (as were the others!), but like the one macnik6 worked with, the one we used was amazing, and was clearly communicating with our cats. :nod:
 
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dragulescugirl

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Well he urinated and his levels all went back to normal. But he doesn't want to eat. I'm just so worried.
 

ldg

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When did he last eat? How much does he weigh? Is he overweight, or is he thin?

From my experience with Mingle, if the pancreas is inflamed, they don't feel like eating. If he's not chubby or overweight, he's at less risk for fatty liver, so if he goes 24-48 hours without eating, he should be ok. Even if he is overweight, 24 hours should be ok.

...but I'd be chatting with the vet about an anti-nausea med, such as Cerenia or Reglan (Cerenia's only once a day, though, so easier).

Do you have any pepcid there? (Regular strength). I know 10mg (a regular strength pill of pepcid or its generic, famotidine) is ok for a 9 or more pound kitty. :heart2:

:vibes: :vibes: :vibes:
 
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dragulescugirl

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I think he is getting thin - bony in the back - but he does weigh 12lbs.

His surgery was Friday at 5pm. So a little over 24 hours.

The vet has kept him overnight and does have him on some anti-nausea medicine as well. She was only a little concerned but said that he may still be feeling ill from the stomach surgery.

I feel some comfort in that she said she isn't letting him leave till she is satisfied he is better and able to come home.

He is starting to act a little feistier which is good.

And thank you for the good thoughts!
 
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flintmccullough

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What-do-you-feed?

Wet-or-dry?

Do-you-give-him-any,people-food,at-all?

Is-he-LH?

Do-you-brush-or-comb-him-every-day?

Do-you-have-plants?Flowers?

What-do-you-clean-with?

 

ldg

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Oh :doh3: he just had the surgery! Hun, from everything you've said, he sounds like he's in very good hands. :heart2: I didn't realize he was still at the hospital. :anon:

More :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: he's feeling better, eating, and home SOON! :hugs: :rub:
 

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Some web addresses have been removed from posts in this thread and replaced with hyperlinks.
 
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dragulescugirl

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What-do-you-feed? Urinary s/o since once cat had bladder stones.

Wet-or-dry? Combo

Do-you-give-him-any,people-food,at-all? Rarely, but sometimes and only if it is plain like leftover tuna in a can if making tuna salad.

Is-he-LH? Yep.

Do-you-brush-or-comb-him-every-day? Yes! Between he and the other 3 we usually spend a good hour or two grooming them at night especially in the summer. All are long hairs. :)

Do-you-have-plants?Flowers? Only two inside - a plumeria I'm rooting and a cactus. Neither have nibble marks and he doesn't go outside.

What-do-you-clean-with? Vinegar mostly but on tough areas Clorox wipes with the scrubbers.

:wavey: :high5:
I'm on the phone so sorry if the formatting is weird but I responded to each of your questions.

Went to the vet to see him today. It's starting to look like IBD based upon his B12 number (???) and she said since his intestine was inflamed she thinks that is what is making him refuse food right now and his recovery slower.

My poor baby. :,(
 
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macnik6

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Cyproheptadine is great appetite stimulant given orally and may work on IBD cats; ask your vet if it can be used until he gets up on his feet again. I know some ER vets use Valium injection, which may be easier on his stomach. I would definitely get on WholeCatHealth, they can guide you through IBD issues - they have a lot in their arsenal from tons of experience.
 

ldg

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How long has he been on the urinary s/o?

Did he actually have stones? Were they removed surgically? Or did he have crystals, not stones? If so, were they calcium oxalate or struvite?

The best diet for cats with any type of bladder issues is wet food:

http://www.catinfo.org
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

And a species-appropriate wet food (high protein, low carb, no grains, peas or potatoes, etc.) are best for cats with IBD: http://www.ibdkitties.net

The easiest way to combine these is with commercial raw food. This also heals many kitties with IBD. Not all of them, but many. If his problem was struvite crystals (which are the most common problem), a raw diet is naturally acidifying (because of the methionine in meat: methionine is the acidifier used in the Hill's Pet prescription c/d food for cats with crystals), and a raw diet targets a urine pH of 6.25 - 6.5 (which is exactly what you want for a kitty) without doing anything other than feeding it. When I switched my cats to raw, their urine output went up, and they stopped drinking water. The food is SO moist, and SO easy to digest, they don't need "added" water and use less to process the food they're eating. (I have 3 boys that all blocked from crystals, and one female that had issues with crystals AND FLUTD - she stresses and it affects her bladder).

There are canned foods out there than can work, and again, either Dr. Pierson's site can help you identify them with her food list (she doesn't list ingredients, but the high protein, low carb foods are a good place to start). http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods There's a link in the introduction to her cat food composition chart.

And again, http://www.ibdkitties.net will have a lot of suggestions as well.
 

ldg

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How long has he been on the urinary s/o?

Did he actually have stones? Were they removed surgically? Or did he have crystals, not stones? If so, were they calcium oxalate or struvite?

The best diet for cats with any type of bladder issues is wet food:

http://www.catinfo.org
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

And a species-appropriate wet food (high protein, low carb, no grains, peas or potatoes, etc.) are best for cats with IBD: http://www.ibdkitties.net

The easiest way to combine these is with commercial raw food. This also heals many kitties with IBD. Not all of them, but many. If his problem was struvite crystals (which are the most common problem), a raw diet is naturally acidifying (because of the methionine in meat: methionine is the acidifier used in the Hill's Pet prescription c/d food for cats with crystals), and a raw diet targets a urine pH of 6.25 - 6.5 (which is exactly what you want for a kitty) without doing anything other than feeding it. When I switched my cats to raw, their urine output went up, and they stopped drinking water. The food is SO moist, and SO easy to digest, they don't need "added" water and use less to process the food they're eating. (I have 3 boys that all blocked from crystals, and one female that had issues with crystals AND FLUTD - she stresses and it affects her bladder).

There are canned foods out there than can work, and again, either Dr. Pierson's site can help you identify them with her food list (she doesn't list ingredients, but the high protein, low carb foods are a good place to start). http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods There's a link in the introduction to her cat food composition chart.

And again, http://www.ibdkitties.net will have a lot of suggestions as well.
 
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dragulescugirl

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He (Kinko) didn't have stones, one of my other cats (Harley) did. We were prescribed the Royal Canin Urinary S/O and it was recommended we go ahead and feed it to all the cats as it wouldn't hurt the other ones and would help Harley.

It sounds like a raw could be the way to go to satisfy all the cats. Of course, I can always start retraining them to eat in seperate rooms. I just want them to be happy and healthy.
 

ldg

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He (Kinko) didn't have stones, one of my other cats (Harley) did. We were prescribed the Royal Canin Urinary S/O and it was recommended we go ahead and feed it to all the cats as it wouldn't hurt the other ones and would help Harley.

It sounds like a raw could be the way to go to satisfy all the cats. Of course, I can always start retraining them to eat in seperate rooms. I just want them to be happy and healthy.
:nod: That's what we did when the three boys all blocked within a few months of each other. We just put everyone on c/d. We put dry out for free-feeding, and fed 2 meals of wet a day, also c/d. I really didn't want to switch to raw when we rescued Chumley, and he couldn't manage the c/d. He had wicked diarrhea and food sensitivities, and the regular vets couldn't help him. :( We found a holistic vet that was horrified to learn we were feeding dry food as part of their diet. :lol3:

...but we eventually switched. It was not easy, mist of my cats were 9 years old, and loved their kibble, and just transitioning to all timed meals with no kibble out was hard. :( In fact, that was probably the hardest part for a couple of my cats. I have tips, if you decide to go that route. :rub:

I will say that despite all the work it required to switch to timed meals, and to transition to raw was all worth it. They all have more energy, they're happier - really! - they pee more, they poop less (a lot less! And no smell at all !!); they are SO silky soft it's crazy. The local vet we work with isn't pro- or anti- raw, she just has no one else raw feeding cats. She gets it's the most species-appropriate diet, and has been fascinated with the process. At this point, she's a convert. We've been raw feeding now for about 1.5 years.

The way I think about it now is that just like we feel best eating fresh, unprocessed foods, our kitties do too. It's just that appropriate, unprocessed food for cats isn't fruits and veggies LOL.

If you want to chat or ask questions to help you think about it, feel free to pop over to the raw forum, or PM me. :). :hugs:

And continued vibes for Kinko! :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:
 
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dragulescugirl

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Ok this may be a really dumb question - but can he get fatty liver disease at the vet I he isn't eating? I know she said his IV had vitamins and things in it. So he is getting some nutrition, correct?
 
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