Help with ferals

wolcar · Jul 10, 2013

So far, all of the cats that have been fixed and released have been ear tipped. We caught our one again and it was helpful confirming it was her as we saw the ear tip. None of them have shown any signs of liking me at all. They all hide when I come around so its hard to make notes on them aside from capture and release and the picture, but I am new to taking care of these babies, so maybe once they get used to me they will at least show themselves more.

We have not caught any males yet but I've seen them around. Are there usually more females in a colony or is there no real rhyme or reason to that?

ondine · Jul 10, 2013

wolcar said:
We have not caught any males yet but I've seen them around. Are there usually more females in a colony or is there no real rhyme or reason to that?

You know, that's an excellent question. I hope our colony caretakers will chime in and answer it. I will ask my friends who have colonies. It could be that the boys are wandering or no one has established his territory in your area (yet). Of course, you probably won't see too many intake males once all the girls are fixed.

I did want to tell you, Wolcar. Everything you have said makes me admire you all the more. You really, really have this project down!

ritz · Jul 10, 2013

In my experience, there were far more males than females.

I lived in a condo, surrounded by apartments and single family dwellings. High rate of foreclosures/evictions. People moved out and left their cats behind. In 2.5 years, I TNRd around 35 cats, all at my own expense, although I did have the support of the president of the condo association, which helped logistically. Around 24 of the cats I TNRd were male, the rest female, i.e., roughly 2/3rds were male.

I asked this question on another thread why this was: some of the reasons I got were: unneutered male cats tend to spray, unspayed female cats just get cute and cuddly, so male cats are more quickly dumped. And, pregnancy is hard on females; they die in childbirth or die prematurely due to disease or malnutrition or injuries.

wolcar · Jul 10, 2013

Thanks ondine, I appreciate your kind words. I do have two folks at work, one is my sister, who are helping with these kitties. Honestly, it would be harder or me to ignore them than to help them, even though I'm sure they don't think we're helping them. Lol.

This morning when I went out to set the trap I think I made a little friend. A mamma cat (one i haven't seen before but I think she's the mom of the kittens from the past two days) was standing there about 3 feet from me and her last baby was nursing. Then she sat down, then lied down and we just sat with each other. We ended up catching her last kitten this morning and mamma was nearby when we went to get the trap. I felt bad for her. I wish we caught her today. She looks young, too.

image.jpg

wolcar
Jul 10, 2013

She's the newest capture.

Do male cats have no interest in female cats that are fixed? This is the little stuff I have no idea about.

Also, we've decided that we are going to come in on a Saturday to clean up around where the cats are living, it's a warehouse yard type of situation so if not maintained it can get a little trashy. We will get it nice and clean for them and keep it that was. It will make it easier on us as well, I think.

ondine · Jul 10, 2013

Usually the intake males will leave spayed females alone. They have no interest because there's no chance of sex. Men!

(just kidding)

I've seen neutered males and spayed females become best friends. In one of my friend's colonies, we watched several (fixed) permanent residents defend the kittens of an unspayed mommy against an intake male who was harassing them all. She finally caught both the male and female and they joined the colony. She found homes for the kittens, too. At that point, she stopped getting newcomers, which was a big relief to her. But it is so interesting to study their dynamics.

S/N just calms everyone down. Unless you have people dumping, at some point, your colony will stabilize. You should be able to tell that soon.

ritz · Jul 10, 2013

Agree with Ondine: one reason my colony kept growing and I TNRd so many cats is because people kept dumping their cats. The colony finally stablized after two years (with ten cats).

I have since moved, and feed the colony on the weekends. A nice woman feeds them twice during the week. Out of ten who regularly dined at my restaurant (a/k/a dumpster), four to six still return. There is one new cat (not TNRd) who comes very irregularly. I'd love to TNR him/her.

wolcar · Jul 10, 2013

Lol. I'm pretty certain no one is dumping cats, which is a relief. Boy, if I ever caught someone doing that I may end up in jail. I think if any newbies ever come or have strolled through its from the apartment complex next door. They have been nothing but trouble on so many levels. The declawed neutered males we trapped last year most certainly were from that place. We adopted them out to our employees, after my vet gave them a clean bill of health.

I really hope after I get them all trapped and fixed that I'm able really get to know them and watch the dynamics of the colony. Now I just get sad when I hear what I can only imagine are the sounds of cats in heat and territorial issues.

wolcar · Jul 12, 2013

We caught 3 more kittens today. We've now caught a total 13, 11 kittens and two cats. I'm glad we are catching the kittens but I wish we could also start getting some of these older ones, too.

ondine · Jul 12, 2013

Well, the more kittens you trap, the fewer future big cats you'll have out there. And if you can find them homes, think of the long, healthy lives you've granted them. Bless you and all you do!

Vibes that you do start catching the adults soon, though ...

wolcar · Jul 12, 2013

I know the kittens have to be caught, too. I guess I just want them all to be caught and taken care of. The kittens are all at the vet getting treated and then will get adopted through them. Phew! One less thing for me to worry about.

I've noticed that since I've been putting dry food in the big storage container that it doesn't smell as bad, almost better. Is it possibly that they aren't peeing/spraying in tree anymore because I'm now putting ood in there?

ondine · Jul 13, 2013

wolcar said:
Is it possibly that they aren't peeing/spraying in tree anymore because I'm now putting ood in there?

Oh, exactly. Cats will not mark or use the bathroom where they eat, so that was actually a great way to keep the containers clean! I didn't even think of it until you said that.

I am so happy you have the vet's support. Finding homes is often the most difficult part of all this.

wolcar · Jul 15, 2013

We caught two more kittens today which brings our total to 15 cats/kittens, with only two being adult cats. Ugh

ondine · Jul 15, 2013

No matter what, that is good news! I'm thinking the (inexperienced) kittens are getting to the traps before the adults have a chance to scope things out. Keep trapping; eventually you will start getting the ones you want.

I've forgotten if you can get near the adults - or if they will eat when you are watching. If either of these is the case, a drop trap might help get them.

wolcar · Jul 15, 2013

Yea, I know it's a good thing. It's just I didn't realize there so many back there. None of the adults will eat with me around. They recently started to not dart away immediately upon my arrival, which is a step.

I noticed that the big gray cat eats the dry food that I set out that isn't in a trap. I'm thinking about putting it in a trap in the same spot to see if that will work.

Will these cats be less trusting of me if I do that?

kitten_smitten · Jul 15, 2013

From what I am gathering these cats are on your property which is reasonably secluded - My next question is about the traps themselves Are they yours or are they borrowed with a sizable deposit - I have traps that are my personal traps - Here is a trick I have used with good success when it comes to trapping "trap-wise" cats - I use one of my personal traps that are inexpensive - I then use a heavy chain and lock - I chain and lock the trap to some thing big enough as to stop people from walking off with my trap - This takes care of the people problem - After I get the trap chained in place I tie open the trap door so that even if the cat steps on the pedal it won't trigger - I use double door traps so I leave the door on the baiting side closed as it will be when you actually trap.

I First place food near the opening of the trap,the one they will be walking into Two or three days later I set the food inside the trap just inside the door, I move the food back gradually over the coarse of a week until I am actually setting it where it goes for trapping - I leave it that way until I an ready to do the actual trapping, it is then I remove the tie that prevents the trap door from closing - but the cats don't notice this and will typically get inside as they have been.

This works well for trap leery cats because the problem is that the trap isn;t part of the daily environment so the cats are leery of it - The trick is to get them used to the traps presence which can be done for those trapping on their property or on property that they have permission to trap on - I can't use it in public places or business areas but it does work well in situations where I am trapping on my property or doing trapping for some one requesting it to be done for them - I have been trapping for several years now and have four feral colonies all of which are stable except from one which is in a residential district with a decent portion of rental's which has resident turn overs.

Another thing is to keep you feeding stations and watering places out of the public's line of sight if you do not want your colony to become a dumping ground - It isn;t the people living in the area you have to worry about -I mean if you drop a cat off across the street it simply walks home but if you take it to the next town and dump it the chances are slim it will find it's way back so you are wanting to keep people who do not live in the area from knowing you have a colony of cats. My advice from years of experience is to keep your feeding/watering stations out of sight.

The male to female question - My colonies were made up of many males until TNR began - Because tom cats tend to wander in search of females once neutered my male population decreased because once the tom-cats who belonged to people living near my colonies got neutered they no longer wandered in search of mating opportunities thus they stayed home and their owners fed them -

Now most of the regulars in my colonies are females but I do have some males who are truly homeless that stay with the colony and help protect the area from invading cats. Cats do not belong to people they belong to places and being territorial is part of being a cat. This is actually a good thing for a colony manager = They prevent other cats from moving in thus your job of getting every one spayed / neutered does eventually come to a slow crawl, a very slow crawl. I typically get one new unsterilized cat per colony per year. I mean one that stays long enough to be in need of trapping - I have three colonies that have not had a single kitten born in over three years.

ondine · Jul 15, 2013

If you can, don't feed them anything unless its in the trap. After all, if they have food to eat that's easy to access, why bother with the stuff they have to work for?

They cats don't really trust you yet, so trapping them is not going to set that relationship back. Once they are trapped and fixed, you can work on building a relationship with them. And there will be a relationship - you'll be feeding them and sooner or later, they will come to a level of trust with you.

wolcar · Jul 16, 2013

Kitten_Smitten said:
From what I am gathering these cats are on your property which is reasonably secluded - My next question is about the traps themselves Are they yours or are they borrowed with a sizable deposit - I have traps that are my personal traps - Here is a trick I have used with good success when it comes to trapping "trap-wise" cats - I use one of my personal traps that are inexpensive - I then use a heavy chain and lock - I chain and lock the trap to some thing big enough as to stop people from walking off with my trap - This takes care of the people problem - After I get the trap chained in place I tie open the trap door so that even if the cat steps on the pedal it won't trigger - I use double door traps so I leave the door on the baiting side closed as it will be when you actually trap.

I First place food near the opening of the trap,the one they will be walking into Two or three days later I set the food inside the trap just inside the door, I move the food back gradually over the coarse of a week until I am actually setting it where it goes for trapping - I leave it that way until I an ready to do the actual trapping, it is then I remove the tie that prevents the trap door from closing - but the cats don't notice this and will typically get inside as they have been.

This works well for trap leery cats because the problem is that the trap isn;t part of the daily environment so the cats are leery of it - The trick is to get them used to the traps presence which can be done for those trapping on their property or on property that they have permission to trap on - I can't use it in public places or business areas but it does work well in situations where I am trapping on my property or doing trapping for some one requesting it to be done for them - I have been trapping for several years now and have four feral colonies all of which are stable except from one which is in a residential district with a decent portion of rental's which has resident turn overs.

Another thing is to keep you feeding stations and watering places out of the public's line of sight if you do not want your colony to become a dumping ground - It isn;t the people living in the area you have to worry about -I mean if you drop a cat off across the street it simply walks home but if you take it to the next town and dump it the chances are slim it will find it's way back so you are wanting to keep people who do not live in the area from knowing you have a colony of cats. My advice from years of experience is to keep your feeding/watering stations out of sight.

The male to female question - My colonies were made up of many males until TNR began - Because tom cats tend to wander in search of females once neutered my male population decreased because once the tom-cats who belonged to people living near my colonies got neutered they no longer wandered in search of mating opportunities thus they stayed home and their owners fed them -

Now most of the regulars in my colonies are females but I do have some males who are truly homeless that stay with the colony and help protect the area from invading cats. Cats do not belong to people they belong to places and being territorial is part of being a cat. This is actually a good thing for a colony manager = They prevent other cats from moving in thus your job of getting every one spayed / neutered does eventually come to a slow crawl, a very slow crawl. I typically get one new unsterilized cat per colony per year. I mean one that stays long enough to be in need of trapping - I have three colonies that have not had a single kitten born in over three years.

The cats are on my property at work. Well, it's my father's property :-) I work there. It's fairly secluded. They are definitly safe from traffic and whatnot and there is a patch of dense shurbs and trees and then a big fence then an apartment complex that has a lot of turnaround. The apartment folks cannot get into our area. I do feel like my traps are safe and my property is safe so ultimately the cats are pretty safe from people here. It really is a good spot for them. We have three traps that are our own. They are the kind that traps on one side and has a easy release door on the other. I've set the trap and rigged it to stay open so they get used to it. we will see if that works for a few days and then I'll set the trap.

We didn't catch any cats today but we saw two kittens that we hadn't seen before. I saw my big Gray boss cat also. I've have a confirmed 5 adult cats left to catch and 2 kittens, this is only what I've seen. Apparently these kittens are popping out of nowhere. We are at a total of 15 cats is 3-4 weeks. I feel good about that but I need to get everyone.

We started cleaning up a little to make it a bit neater for us and for them. I have a perfect spot for the raised feeding station I'm having built that IS out of public view. I've also got some things in the works for some shelters in the winter inside our storage container and outside the storage container. I do hope they end up liking it and using everything. I feel like with all this trapping all of the cats are going to scatter away. I don't want them to do that. I don't think they will be so lucky elsewhere. The grass isn't always greener :-(

krz · Jul 17, 2013

I just caught up with this and am so impressed with your hard work and determination. And what a blessing that the kittens will be saved! I think after all the trapping is done and you get into your routine of feeding, you will be surprised how things will settle down and the cats will stay there and be very content. Ferals love routine, and once you get your feeding station and shelters completed and trapping done, you will have a happy colony. Of course, you will probably find another cat or possibly cats wander in. But it sounds like you are very dedicated, you have lucky kitties!

wolcar · Jul 17, 2013

I didn't trap today so no cats were caught. I was walking over to the area where I trap to clean up some sardines impu out earlier for a special treat and I was within petting distance of AL ( big grey boss cat we names after al Pacino). He was sleeping on a ole of skids in the shade. At irst I thought he was dead because he didn't scamper away. Then I said "hey baby". And he lifts his head all groggy-like, looks around a few times, then realizes I'm there and scampers away. I felt bad that I ruined such a good sleep he was having. It was nice to be so close to him even though he didn't know it.

It was nice to have a break from trapping today. Do you have to keep moving the traps? Is that helpful or hurtful in trapping the cats?

ondine · Jul 17, 2013

Unless they are in someone's way, I wouldn't move the traps. Let them become part of the scenery. Also, I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this or not but it will help if you clean them really well (I spray mine down with Clorox Cleanup or an enzyme cleaner. That removes the previous cat's smell, which is probably tinged with fear.

Taking a break also helps you. Don't deplete your energies. You have a grand start on this project. It will get done.

Al sounds like quite a character.

Help with ferals

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