Splitting up 2 week old kittens,

So I have my 3 2-week old kittens...I know the girl tries to nurse on the 2 boys, but I think the other 2 might also be doing it.  I read that I should split them up, and I have, during the day, split the girl up and put her in a separate carrier.  But at night, I put her back in with the boys.

How has everyone handled this, if you've had kittens?  I know it has to do with the fact that mom's not readily available most of the day, so they're resorting to finding the nearest furry thing.

Is the nursing on each other such a big problem?

Why isnt the mom with them, as I understand there is a mom?

(sorry, I hadnt followed your earlier thread, if there was one, and you dont link)

Shouldn't u keep them all together if they are only 2 weeks old ? Iv got 6 kittens all nearly 4 weeks old and 2 are boys but mine are altogether ... Or have they got to be separated ????

Brief history....they are orphaned....I've had them since they were a day or two old.  We tried for 3 days to get the mom (who's feral) to take them but she would only take 1 or 2, and leave the others.  We think she was a young cat herself and it might be her first litter.  She had 5 kittens....we only found 4, but the neighbor saw the 5th one; we lost 1 to pneumonia, but the other 3 are doing great!  They all started at around 3-4oz, and now, 2 1/2 weeks later, each is 14oz....one is 16oz.  All 3 are walking and exploring, and one is already "tackling" his siblings.  Had a couple of aspiration scares with the girl, but vet gave her the all clear and prescribed antibiotics just in case.  She's doing awesome, though.

This is the problem with internet.  Tons of information, lots of conflicting advice, and you're left to make the best judgment.  Most sites say that kittens w/o a mom have problems with sucking.  They don't have a mom there at their disposal, so they tend to suck on the nearest thing, usually their siblings.  The solution was to split them.  I've also heard the suggestion of adding bitter apple to the genitals, but that can't be good  LOL  I've used bitter apple on our ferrets, but on little kittens?

I also know that it's important for the kittens to stay with their litter so they can learn from each other, so I've been hesitant to split them up.  I've only split the girl from her brothers on a couple of occasions, and each time only during the day and I was in the room.  But I always put her back once she's calmed down.

I think the girl's getting better at not sucking.  Hoping she doesn't get pee or poop in her mouth  LOL

I went through same thing.  It can cause a SERIOUS issue if you have one sucking.  My girl ended up giving one of the boys a scab and he had trouble peeing.  I think your doing the best you can-limiting the unsupervised time she has but still giving them plenty of together time.  You may try to feed her when she does this as that may calm her down faster.  A full kitten is normally a sleeping kitten  It evens out soon when they start eating some real food and get off the nursing fixation/toys are able to be played with.
 

Thanks cats....good to know someone had success with this part-time bachelorette pad  LOL  Ironically, even though we let her eat until she lets us know she's done, she'll still try to nurse the boys when they're playing!  We gently scruff her and hiss at her to discourage this everytime we catch her.

Yeah my girl would get her one brother in particular.  But at some point the 2 boys started to turn on her for doing that!  I had used biocaine when he was young for his pain and as a side bonus for her to stop but did not use it to long as did not want to discourage them learning to clean themselves(if you have no other cats for them to watch it will probably take them awhile to do more then feet/face.  They were dingy kittens lol!!!)

Being so young if mom was around they would eat much more often and smaller meals so its just part of the game. I know when I had a litter with mom you would hear sucking so often during the day/night and she only had 3 kittens.

 Very young kittens with their mom normally do nurse quite often  and they have such a very strong instinct to suckle,  so without mom there, they often go for each other.  and as catsallaround says,  it really can cause some serious problems  if a kitten gets genitals suckled on a lot.   

So sometimes people set up a cardboard box with dividers into little compartments to separate the kittens  when not being supervised.  

 One can put a stuffed animal in with each kitten.  and with them in the same box they can still smell and sense each others presence.  

  From  what I hear they usually get past this after about the first  3 or 4 weeks    - and it's really that 2nd and 3rd month that is the most important time for them learning by interacting.    but should still be together some of the time now.    

 You will just have to watch and keep checking and if you are still seeing this happen repeatedly or seeing inflammation on the parts being suckled you will have to separate them  more of the time for maybe a couple weeks.     

Thanks  Yes, we're watching them closely.  We let them play supervised outside of their crate before and after meals.  By the time we put them in their crate, they fall fast asleep.  Hopefully we can get her past this phase without too much separation.

I actually do use the bitter apple and it works great. Get the roll on kind instead of the spray and make sure it's alcohol free. You have to be diligent in putting it on the areas that are being suckled but if you are eventually they will lose interest. 

It's also good to offer up an alternative item to suckle. A good one is a small fleece blanket. It doesn't get rid of the habit but it does re-direct it to a more appropriate place. 

Finally, I think you may really benefit from getting a SnuggleKitty and putting it in with them. This is an amazing product that does wonders at simulating having Mom there. Each comes with a ticking heartbeat as well as a heater to put inside to make it even more lifelike. And, you can put bottles in the nipples so that they can actually feed from it. I think you said in another post you were having problems with them kneading on your hands. This would make a wonderful solution! http://www.snugglepetproducts.com/

That's an interesting product. We were looking for a stuffed animal that holds a heating pack, too.  We ended up getting just a washable plush teddy bear, and they actually seem to be snuggling with it  I figure in a week or so, they'll outgrow the suckling anyway.  Today she's been doing better, actually. We've been

1. discouraging biting the nipple by yanking it out as soon as they bite and hiss at them, so they're latching on quicker, and each has been heartily eating half a bottle!  All without us squeezing the bottle at all.   We started using a nipple that has a larger hole and they seem to like the the most.
2. We've also been upping the hissing and gently-but-firmly scruffing whenever we catch her trying to suckle.
3. We've also been giving them so much play time before and after meals that by the time they go in the their crate, they're plum tuckered out!  They love exploring the floor.

So for now, I'll skip the $40 plush  If I ever am in this situation again, I'll definitely consider buying that. Just not worth it right now since by the time I get it, I might only get a couple of weeks' use of it.  These kittens couldn't have come at a better time.  It's summer vacation, so my kids are able to help me, I work from home, and my friend who's also a "crazy cat lady" as she calls herself is also available to help if I need a break from a day of kitty care.

All fair points and totally understandable why you don't want to throw down $40 on something for short term use. Just had to put it out there. 

I'm not saying this next part because I think a SnuggleKitty would help (I swear I don't work for them or anything I just like the concept) but the suckling is something you need to keep a close eye on for the next few months, not just days. Suckling is incredibly common for kittens in this situation. And, some grow out of it while others don't.  My kitten was also pulled from Mom too early. He will be a year next month and STILL has a suckling problem. I have been lucky that I have been able to direct him to one fleece blanket, but God help us all if Diego doesn't have that darn thing with him at all times! I swear a few days ago I took it away from him to wash it and he screamed bloody murder until I gave it back. I have even gotten him an identical fleece but nope- it has to be the original. 

Unfortunately, it's not just one of those problems you can let go of and hope that it will solve itself. As others have mentioned they can give each other sores that can breed serious infections and inhibit normal bodily function (in the case of genital suckling). That, and the more they do it the harder a habit it is to break. Basically, suckling is the kitty version of crack- once they start it's super hard to get them to stop!

I think you are very smart to tucker them out so they are less inclined to do it in the first place. If they keep it up anyway using the bitter apple consistently will help. Finally, it's a good idea to offer some sort of suitable alternative (a stuffed animal, a fleece blanket, ect). Otherwise, you risk them starting to suckle incredibly odd things, including your skin. It doesn't seem like it's a big deal when they are this tiny but when you have a 12 pound cat lunging for your neck so they can suckle and soothe themselves it's actually quite terrifying! 

Because I forgot to say it before- thank you for bringing these guys in and doing all that you can for them. I'm so glad to hear you have such a support team helping you and that your children are learning such a valuable lesson in compassion in the process. These kittens are very lucky that you have been so willing to do all of this for them! 

Keep the questions coming. 

Thanks EB....I, like many older-cat-owners, know cats, but nothing about kittens.  Even my "crazy cat lady" friend who traps ferals and gets them fixed, vaccinated, and rereleased knew nothing about newborns.  I was so conflicted about taking them, not because of the commitment involved, but because I realized after I intervened that the mom could have possibly just been moving the kittens.  But 2 1/2 weeks later, I have no regrets (except for the runt who died).  I still don't know if I would be so quick to take kittens in so quick again though...I would wait longer to see if the mom does indeed comes back.  Then I have another friend who is also a feral trapper/fixer who has raised and adopted out 11 kittens who says that she immediately takes newborns because otherwise, the newborns would be moved and she'd never find them again to get them fixed.  Hard call to make.

Good points on the suckling.  I have a 7 year old son who still sucks his thumb  LOL!!!!!!!  I'll keep a close watch.  So far so good, though.  It looks to be getting better.  I'll get the bitter apple just in case. When we had ferrets, we sprayed bitter apple on almost everything in their eye level  LOL  It would suck when I touch something that I sprayed, and I rub my eye or accidentally lick my finger  LOL YUCK!!  If it gets worse again, I'll get the snugglybear.

You are so right that it is a very fine line. On the one hand their best chance of surviving the newborn phase is to be with Mom, but, if they stay with her, their chances of going feral are high and ever being adopted are slim. Once she moves the nest it is very hard to find them again and even if you do there is no guarantee you will be able to trap them.

I tend to side with those who take the kittens (while ideally trapping Mom and having her spayed). If you can make it past the newborn phase you are giving them the best possible chance for the future. The catch is, you have to be ready for everything that having bottle babies brings which, as you know, is a major undertaking. Because it's so labor intensive it's the one part of rescue that I don't do. If I had extra hands I would but when you are by yourself it's just too much. 

Glad to hear the suckling at least seems to be getting better. I've actually only dealt with it in slightly older kittens so maybe it is easier to break when they are as young as yours. Here's hoping anyway!

Since I'm dolling out all sorts of advice, I too was an avid thumb sucker. My Mom tried to scare me by telling me my thumb would rot if I kept doing it but I wasn't dissuaded. So, she snuck in one night and sprinkled cayenne pepper on it. When I woke up and stuck it in my mouth I really thought it had rotted and never sucked it again! Maybe you kill two birds with one stone and dab some bitter apple on that bad boy- put an end to all the suckling in your household!   

LOL  yeah I was a thumb sucker, too.  My other son one day when he was 4 declared he would no longer suck his thumb.  Out of no where.  And guess what.  He never did again.  My 7 year old has mild ADHD and his form of ADHD is sensory...he's one of those who still carries around a blankie and finds comfort in texture and sucking his thumb  lol  He's no longer convinced his thumb would fall off...cuz 3 years after being told that, he's still sucking his thumb

I would not be able to do this had I not been a work-at-home mom, and the fact that the kids are on summer vacation helps.  I schedule the feedings around when I shuttle the kids to their activities.  We're coming up on 3 weeks this Wednesday and while I'm still very guarded, I'm feeling more confident in their chance of survival.  Eating well, actively exploring, doing what kittens are supposed to be doing.

We have just set up the large dog kennel.  We put the kitty crate in there, and they will only be let out for free play within the kennel when we're in the house, and if we're in the kitchen then they will be allowed out of the kennel.  We've got this planned out  We lined the kennel with blankets and towels, and on one side is this cat arch we got, and under the arch is another heating pad so in case they don't feel like going back to the crate for warmth, they'll have another warm spot there.

Are the males' testicles supposed to be dark??  When we first got them, they were flesh colored. Now they've turned dark brown/black.  I'm hoping that it's not from me not seeing the girl suckling on them!  LOL  They're peeing/pooping fine and it doesn't seem like it hurts when I rub it with a wet cloth.

pawpurrints said:

Are the males' testicles supposed to be dark??  When we first got them, they were flesh colored. Now they've turned dark brown/black.  I'm hoping that it's not from me not seeing the girl suckling on them!  LOL  They're peeing/pooping fine and it doesn't seem like it hurts when I rub it with a wet cloth.

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This is actually a good question and one I don't really know the answer to. Honestly I don't think I have ever paid that much attention to kitten testicle color (shocking, I know). It's true their skin/coat color will change as they age so I am assuming that is what you are seeing (I'm pretty sure they are dark tabbies but correct me if I'm wrong). If she is suckling them you would see more bleeding and scabbing which this doesn't sound like. So that's my educated guess, though if someone with more testicle knowledge comes along I would give their opinion a hefty weight over mine. 

Just as an aside I am going out of town tomorrow so I will be back to being sporadic on the boards, though I will check in when I can. Just when we get to the good stuff too!