Getting the Calcium content right?

Reading recent threads about balanced raw and the importance of calcium (esp for kittens) I may have got myself a bit freaked out!  SO

1.  Is there a way to know/test if your feline is getting enough calcium?

and in discussion with others, I might be confused about calculating bone content - different cuts and animals have different amounts. SO

2.  Anyone have a conclusive sheet on the percentage bone in various parts of rabbit? (I have one for chicken)

My two will crunch up the bones most times - and sometimes eat around them.  I generally feed a boney meal most days - if it is rabbit (a 70g chunk) or chicken ribs (x2).  If it is chicken neck (higher bone), 2-3 necks a week.  I'm hoping this is sufficient. SO

3.  Does this sound about right?  (rest of meals is about 800g meat - the boney meals have meat extra to this - 60g liver, 60g kidney, plus one can of cat food).

4.  How would you calculate the calcium in hard cheese to incorporate a quantity from this source?

5. Lastly, can you overdo the calcium and is this detrimental?

(Just as a side note, my meals are all over the place and horribly unbalanced at present, as I'm dealing with illness. It's been going on for 4 weeks.  My vet wants the 'limited' diet at present to just keep variables at bay and be gentler on the tummies - she says it will be fine for 4-6 weeks.  But gee, I really want to get my act together for as soon as they can handle it.  I have a feeling we will have to go the whole re-conditioning and re-transitioning thing as they are being fed things they'll eat just to get food into them at the moment).

Tammyp, I agree, it IS confusing and somewhat overwhelming.

Like you I fed bone, including rabbit and quail.  I know other people go the egg shell route, and still other people buy a supplement that includes calcium.  Phosphors must also be present (I believe) to ensure complete bio availability.

The USDA (United States Department of Agriculture) has a complete list of all protein and nutrients, some of which are listed in grams, not ounces.  http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=17032   I just checked for rabbit, and it does list calcium and phosphorous individually.  Cheese is also listed in the USDA data base.  (Though why are you feeding cheese?  Most cats are lactose intolerant.)

I do know chicken necks have an inordinately high amount of calcium; it is one reason I don't feed it to Ritz.  She is prone to constipation. The way I tell if I'm giving Ritz too much bone is to check the consistency of her feces.  If hard, I know not to feed so much bone and spread it over, say four days, instead of three.  And if she scoot on her butt after pooping, then I know I have to adjust.

What stomach problems are you having with your furbabies?  IBD?  IBS?  Carolina has LOTS of experience with this as do other members; many transitioned their cats to raw when NOTHING else helped.  Regarding unbalanced diet, what commercial raw products do you have available in your country?  (I assume you do not live in the USA; we don't yet do the metric system.)  Some commercial raw products in the USA are single source protein (including organs), which sounds like the route you might want to go for now.

Oops, ignore (3) !  I got my figures wrong!

What I'm REALLY feeding is (and the figures are pretty close, but if my approximation for rabbit bone content is off, and it's really more like 20-25% bone, the figures are even closer to the ideal):

Hi Ritz, thanks!  I'm in Australia, so no good commercial raw options imo.  As to the illness...oh man, I have an entire 3 page and growing thread on our woes, and yes, loads of chats with both Carolina and LDG http://www.thecatsite.com/t/259419/kittens-raw-and-clostridium-safety

Currently, we think it is coccidia.

As to cheese, hard cheeses (like parmesan) are supposed to have no lactose, as this is used up in the fermentation process.  My vet also queried this, but my dietician confirms no lactose; i'm not feeding much at all at the moment so as to not cloud the illness issue.

With the USDA site you linked, I've always been a bit confused with those tables...for one, when I put in rabbit, it was only cooked options, bone removed, that came up with nutrient profiles.  I'm assuming it will be very very different if raw, and also with bone content?  Also, if I'm looking at amounts of nutrients in certain cuts of certain meats, what are the goal amounts we should be feeding?

Just to check my understanding too, phosphorus is in all meat, right?  

Thanks again!

tammyp said:

With the USDA site you linked, I've always been a bit confused with those tables...for one, when I put in rabbit, it was only cooked options, bone removed, that came up with nutrient profiles.  I'm assuming it will be very very different if raw, and also with bone content? 

Click to expand...

The nutrients in the USDA database are for the human edible parts of an item only. So, no, the calcium amounts shown will never include the amount of calcium in bone. Some entries will tell you how much as a percentage a particular item has of bone though. For instance the entry for "chicken, broilers or fryers, meat and skin, raw" will show a bone amount of 32%. You have to click on 'Full Report" at the top of the nutrient table to get that information.

Also, you have to be careful using those values. I've found them to be inconsistent. The entry for "Chicken, broilers or fryers, meat only, raw" also shows a bone content of 32%. The entry with skin should show a lower bone content than the skinless entry. I think they just carried over the 32% bone from the total chicken refuse without considering that it would be different for a skinless item. The bone content for the skinless item wouldn't be hugely different though, 36% vs 32%. 

But, I've never been able to figure out a way to convert an amount of bone into an amount of calcium.

Confusion over really knowing how much calcium is in the food I feed is a major reason I stopped using whole bone as a calcium source so I can't help you with deciding how much to feed.