Black stools?

melrai · Jun 19, 2013

Hi there.

I am have quite the scare right now. I just saw black stools in the litter box. Of course, I gave them a closer look (sorry if this is tmi) and it had left some brown marks on the Kleenex I was using.

I'm just wondering...Hooligan has been eating his raw incredibly well. So has Ruby. Ruby has bone in her mixes, so I'm assuming the white poop in their is hers. Hooligan has been get a variation of horse, horse/chicken and canned. I'm slowly getting him on chicken, very slowly.

My question is, can the horse meat affect the color of his stools? Could this possibly be making them darker than usual? He does get some bone when he was chicken, but I guess not enough to make a difference in his stools?

Has this happened to anyone?
Thanks for all your help

mrsgreenjeens · Jun 19, 2013

Definitely the color of the meat effects the color of the stools. Light colored meat (chicken breast, pork, etc. equates to lighter colored stool, but I have no idea what color horsemeat is. Certainly not BLACK.

If you are finding black, TARRY stools, that could be a sign of bleeding some where in the digestive tract. But when you checked it with the kleenex and it came away brown, then that sounds pretty normal, unless it was too soft. On raw,the stools are usually pretty hard and dry, but you said he's on canned too.

BTW, bones are good when on raw, to an extent. They need either bones, or some other form of calcium. If you give them too much, they may become constipated, but too little has other BAD consequences.

StefanZ · Jun 20, 2013

mrsgreenjeens said:
Definitely the color of the meat effects the color of the stools. Light colored meat (chicken breast, pork, etc. equates to lighter colored stool, but I have no idea what color horsemeat is. Certainly not BLACK.

If you are finding black, TARRY stools, that could be a sign of bleeding some where in the digestive tract.

If the horse meat contained much blood, the whole looking red, I presume the poo might look black, from this excess of blood.

But otherwise, the apparent danger it is something bleeding there deep inside (not hemorrojdes, they are clearly red traces). In this case, hopefully just a short minor bleeding.

Good luck!

melrai · Jun 20, 2013

His stools didn't seem to be red/bloody? Just dark and hard. When I looking into it, it came off brown on the paper.

Also, he yells for his food and is playing really great.
I guess it's okay? Nothing seems to be bothering him...

It's just hard to tell difference between dark brown and black/tarry.

mrsgreenjeens said:
Definitely the color of the meat effects the color of the stools. Light colored meat (chicken breast, pork, etc. equates to lighter colored stool, but I have no idea what color horsemeat is. Certainly not BLACK.

If you are finding black, TARRY stools, that could be a sign of bleeding some where in the digestive tract. But when you checked it with the kleenex and it came away brown, then that sounds pretty normal, unless it was too soft. On raw,the stools are usually pretty hard and dry, but you said he's on canned too.

BTW, bones are good when on raw, to an extent. They need either bones, or some other form of calcium. If you give them too much, they may become constipated, but too little has other BAD consequences.

melrai · Jun 20, 2013

I give him canned once a week and bones maybe 2-4x a week. I think that's okay?

mrsgreenjeens said:
Definitely the color of the meat effects the color of the stools. Light colored meat (chicken breast, pork, etc. equates to lighter colored stool, but I have no idea what color horsemeat is. Certainly not BLACK.

If you are finding black, TARRY stools, that could be a sign of bleeding some where in the digestive tract. But when you checked it with the kleenex and it came away brown, then that sounds pretty normal, unless it was too soft. On raw,the stools are usually pretty hard and dry, but you said he's on canned too.

BTW, bones are good when on raw, to an extent. They need either bones, or some other form of calcium. If you give them too much, they may become constipated, but too little has other BAD consequences.

melrai · Jun 20, 2013

There doesn't seem to be any blood though? Just dark stools and when opened up, they're brown.

Maybe I'm just overreacting?

StefanZ said:
If the horse meat contained much blood, the whole looking red, I presume the poo might look black, from this excess of blood.
But otherwise, the apparent danger it is something bleeding there deep inside (not hemorrojdes, they are clearly red traces). In this case, hopefully just a short minor bleeding.

Good luck!

ritz · Jun 20, 2013

There's no such thing as over reacting in cat momma's worlds

I think the color is normal for the situation, especially since inside the color is brown.

Do you know how many minutes/hours lapsed between the time he pooped and the time you scooped: maybe the color darkened upon exposure to air?

leonamccauley · Jun 20, 2013

Ritz said:
maybe the color darkened upon exposure to air?

This is what even I think.

melrai · Jun 20, 2013

Ritz said:
There's no such thing as over reacting in cat momma's worlds
I think the color is normal for the situation, especially since inside the color is brown.
Do you know how many minutes/hours lapsed between the time he pooped and the time you scooped: maybe the color darkened upon exposure to air?

That is a really good point. It might have gone a couple days...

I'm working on my litter picking haha.
The raw diet threw me for a loop because now it never smells!

melrai · Jun 20, 2013

I think that might be my best bet.

Especially if he's acting incredible. A 6 year old kitty with a 2 month old soul. Haha.

leonamccauley said:
This is what even I think.

mrsgreenjeens · Jun 20, 2013

melrai said:
I give him canned once a week and bones maybe 2-4x a week. I think that's okay?

On an all raw diet, about 10% of their intake should be bones. Either that or some sort of substitute, like eggshell powder or Call of the Wild.

Some people use finely ground bones in every meal, some give bones every few meals. It's up to the person, but you need to make sure it equals enough over a week or so.

melrai · Jun 21, 2013

He receives bones (in the form of his Horse Chicken mix ... or Grain-Free canned) about 1-2x a week, sometimes more.

Do you think that is ok?

mrsgreenjeens · Jun 21, 2013

melrai said:
He receives bones (in the form of his Horse Chicken mix ... or Grain-Free canned) about 1-2x a week, sometimes more.

Do you think that is ok?

As long is it's approx 10% of the total percentage that you feed as raw. You should not count what is in the canned food. The raw is a separate deal, since you said you only feed about 1 can per week. So, if you feed 16 oz of meat per week, then you would need to feed 1.6 oz of bone, as an example. Just saying you feed it in the form of his horse/chicken mix 1 - 2 times per week doesn't really tell us anything. Is it ground, if so, what's the percentage of bone in it? If it's ground and already mixed in, does that mean you only feed that mixture 1 - 2 times per week? If so, what are you feeding the rest of the time? just plain horse meat? Are they getting any liver anywhere along the line? Have you read up on how to balance their diet? It's essential that they get a balanced diet or there could be bad consequences down the line later on. Maybe you want to start up another thread in the raw forum if you need help

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread

melrai · Jun 25, 2013

Hi there!

Alright. So his food is ground. I am only giving him canned food for right now to make up for the lack of liver in his raw. He absolutely hates liver of anything (and believe me, I've tried EVERYTHING). So, the only way I feel comfortable is if I give him a can 1-2x a week.

He used to eat Rabbit (until he stopped eating it altogether) and in his rabbit mix, it was ground and it had all the necessary bone, meat, liver ratio. He started eating JUST chicken again, so I am going to bring his chicken/bone/liver ground mix. That way I know he is getting bone, liver and meat more than 1x a week!

mrsgreenjeens · Jun 25, 2013

Have you tried using Call of the Wild and mixing it into his ground chicken? It takes the place of the liver and bones

. You add it to just plain meat. One of my cats eats meat strips, but without bones. And he gets sick when it eats liver, even though he likes it. So I put Call of the Wild on his meat, and thankfully, he loves it. Here is some info on it:

http://www.wysong.net/products/cotw-dog-cat-supplement.php

It even contains probiotics and digestive enzymes, so, really, all I need to add to his meat is some salmon or krill oil, and he's good to go. The only issue might be whether or not your furkid likes it. I have 3 cats, and only one likes the taste of this product.

Another suggestion would be freeze dried liver. You can actually substitute that, and most cats really like most of the freeze dried meats. Gimborn makes freeze dried RAW liver, most other freeze dried makers (Whole Life, Etta Says) use cooked liver, but you can still substitute it and over in the Raw Forum we can help you with how much.

melrai · Jul 18, 2013

mrsgreenjeens said:
Have you tried using Call of the Wild and mixing it into his ground chicken? It takes the place of the liver and bones

. You add it to just plain meat. One of my cats eats meat strips, but without bones. And he gets sick when it eats liver, even though he likes it. So I put Call of the Wild on his meat, and thankfully, he loves it. Here is some info on it:

http://www.wysong.net/products/cotw-dog-cat-supplement.php

It even contains probiotics and digestive enzymes, so, really, all I need to add to his meat is some salmon or krill oil, and he's good to go. The only issue might be whether or not your furkid likes it. I have 3 cats, and only one likes the taste of this product.

Another suggestion would be freeze dried liver. You can actually substitute that, and most cats really like most of the freeze dried meats. Gimborn makes freeze dried RAW liver, most other freeze dried makers (Whole Life, Etta Says) use cooked liver, but you can still substitute it and over in the Raw Forum we can help you with how much.

Whoa! I just saw this reply now - sorry it has taken so long!

I looked into Call of the Wild - and it looks great! Would that be in place of the liver? As opposed to feeding actual liver? Because he absolutely hates it. Does Call of the Wild actually smell like liver?

I've tried freeze dried liver and he doesn't not want to know anything about it...

I think my best bet is to "trick" him into eating a ground mix that contains liver. He's WAY too picky.

mrsgreenjeens · Jul 18, 2013

Call of the Wild takes the place of both liver AND bone. I use it with strips of chuck roast, pork loin, boneless turkey thigh meat, boneless chicken thighs, boneless chicken breasts, chicken hearts. What I do is measure out the appropriate amount and mix it with about a teaspoon of either water or juice from the meat, then just kind of spread it over the meat pieces. But as I said, only one of my three cats likes it. Wysong (the manufacturer) used to send out samples, so you could call them and see if they'll send you some. Since you're in Canada, not sure if they will or not. I don't think it smells like liver...it's actually kind of green because of all the stuff in it, which, as I stated above, even includes probiotics and digestive enzymes.

ldg · Jul 18, 2013

Good call, Sally.

No, it doesn't smell like liver at all. It smells like... bullion. :lol3: I use CoTW almost exclusively for Lazlo.

It makes JUST meat balanced and complete. I do give him the salmon oil. Oh - I also continue to give him the same probiotic everyone else gets.

There's another one - and I think it's based in Canada? TCFeline. They make several different types, but I'm almost positive they have one that makes just meat complete and balanced. :nod:

mrsgreenjeens · Jul 18, 2013

Oh yes, I forgot about the Canadian premix. You would need the TC Feline PLUS (which has the liver added). AND, for Canadian customers, they have a smaller "sample" size for only $6.90 including S & H. You'd probably need to call them to make sure they send the PLUS vs the regular for your sample

Here's the website: http://tcfeline.com/

melrai · Jul 19, 2013

OH! I've seen this before!

This looks great! And, it would be great to still get him into some different proteins and not have to worry about the bone, liver and all that junk.

Thank-you so so much!

Black stools?

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