Vitamin K3

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
842
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
One would expect a food called "Salmon TunaChovy" to be 25% fish based.  But I know from reading ingredients that some 'beef' flavored foods have fish in them.  And some food called Seafood has beef, chicken as the 2nd ingredient.
Also, I see the word "dry weight".  Wonder if it is 25% wet food cased (dry matter basis conversion--to figure out how much carbohydrates a food *really* has--even if "grain free").  Maybe that's the difference.
Here are the labeling requirements:

Label Basics

There are special labeling requirements for pet food, all of which are contained in the annually revised Official Publication of AAFCO.2 While AAFCO does not regulate pet food, it does provide model regulations and standards that are followed by U.S. pet food makers.

The name of the food provides the first indication of the food’s content. The use of the terms “all” or “100%” cannot be used “if the product contains more than one ingredient, not including water sufficient for processing, decharacterizing agents, or trace amounts of preservatives and condiments.”

The “95% Rule” applies when the ingredient(s) derived from animals, poultry, or fish constitutes at least 95% or more of the total weight of the product (or 70% excluding water for processing). Because all-meat diets are not nutritionally balanced and cause severe deficiencies if fed exclusively, they fell out of favor for many years. However, due to rising consumer interest in high quality meat products, several companies are now promoting 95% and 100% canned meats as a supplemental feeding option.

The “dinner” product is defined by the “25% Rule,” which applies when “an ingredient or a combination of ingredients constitutes at least 25% of the weight of the product (excluding water sufficient for processing)”, or at least 10% of the dry matter weight; and a descriptor such as “recipe,” “platter,” “entree,” and “formula.” A combination of ingredients included in the product name is permissible when each ingredient comprises at least 3% of the product weight, excluding water for processing, and the ingredient names appear in descending order by weight.

The “With” rule allows an ingredient name to appear on the label, such as “with real chicken,” as long as each such ingredient constitutes at least 3% of the food by weight, excluding water for processing.

The “flavor” rule allows a food to be designated as a certain flavor as long as the ingredient(s) are sufficient to “impart a distinctive characteristic” to the food. Thus, a “beef flavor” food may contain a small quantity of digest or other extract of tissues from cattle, or even an artificial flavor, without containing any actual beef meat at all.
So 'Salmon TunaChovy" only NEEDS to be 3% salmon, 3% Tuna, and 3% anchovies. Of course - since anchovy technically is not in the name, I guess it doesn't need to be an ingredient. :dk:

I expect that's why you're not finding menadione as an ingredient in so many foods. The ingredients aren't, and don't add up to, 25%.

Oh - here's the link I used for the info, but it's available a number of places: http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22

ssmaine

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
13
Purraise
0
I received this just now:

"Thank you for your inquiry about Vitamin K and the PURE sea cat formula. Vitamin K needs to be supplemented in a cat food when the diet is more than 25% fish. If the fish makes up less than 25%, a supplement is not necessary as they get adequate vitamin K from other sources in the food.
 

Sincerely,

Dr. Brookshire

CANIDAE Natural Pet Foods"

So all these companies lie about these formulas fish content.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24

ssmaine

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
13
Purraise
0
these foods are marketed as fish-based foods and they are not except for EVO

so is Orijen 6 fish less than 25% fish?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25

ssmaine

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
13
Purraise
0
Any food that is less than 25% fish on a DM basis should not be name Pure Sea or Salmon TunaChovy
 

mschauer

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
6,753
Purraise
2,338
Location
Houston, Tx
these foods are marketed as fish-based foods and they are not except for EVO

so is Orijen 6 fish less than 25% fish?
I think it was Orijen that I looked at that had a bunch of other, non-fish, ingredients. So it could be less than 25% fish or it is 25% or more fish and the other ingredients provide the needed vit K.
Any food that is less than 25% fish on a DM basis should not be name Pure Sea or Salmon TunaChovy
You won't get any argument from me on that one! 
 
Last edited:

vball91

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
3,851
Purraise
250
Location
CO, USA
To the OP, just out of curiousity, what brought this issue to your attention? Are you looking for a fish-based food or concerned about menadione or what?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28

ssmaine

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
13
Purraise
0
I think it was Orijen that I looked at that had a bunch of other, non-fish, ingredients. So it could be less than 25% fish or it is 25% or more fish and the other ingredients provide the needed vit K.

You won't get any argument from me on that one! 
There is no provision in the rule for other ingredients providing the Vitamin K. Several companies have confirmed. Evo, Solid Gold and Canidea.  If the food is greater than 25% fish K3 must be added.
 

mschauer

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
6,753
Purraise
2,338
Location
Houston, Tx
I think it was Orijen that I looked at that had a bunch of other, non-fish, ingredients. So it could be less than 25% fish or it is 25% or more fish and the other ingredients provide the needed vit K.

You won't get any argument from me on that one! 
There is no provision in the rule for other ingredients providing the Vitamin K. Several companies have confirmed. Evo, Solid Gold and Canidea.  If the food is greater than 25% fish K3 must be added.
Based on the responses you have posted I don't agree with that assessment.  Vit K can be "added" via a natural source. It doesn't have to be from a synthetic one (m[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]enadione).[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Edit - Oh, I see. [/color]M[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]enadione is also referred to as "vitamin K3" so since sources stated that "K3" must be added you take that to mean that K3 is the only allowed source of vitamin K. Well, I still don't believe that is the only vitamin K source that can be used to meet AAFCO requirements. [/color]
 
Last edited:

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
842
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
Any food that is less than 25% fish on a DM basis should not be name Pure Sea or Salmon TunaChovy
While I agree with you, technically (legally) that is incorrect. Please read the post about labeling cat food. It can be in the name if it is 3% - not 25%.

If it is called "Dinner" (Like Salmon Dinner) or "formula" then it has to be 25%. But if it is JUST the name of the food, it only has to be 3%.
 
Last edited:

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
842
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
Based on the responses you have posted I don't agree with that assessment.  Vit K can be "added" via a natural source. It doesn't have to be from a synthetic one (menadione).
This would agree with your assessment, mschauer:

Vitamin K Dosages

There is no AAFCO recommended level of vitamin K in dog foods. However, there have been reports of vitamin K deficiency in cats fed several commercial foods containing high levels of salmon or tuna. The AAFCO recommends supplementation for any cat eating a diet containing greater than 25 percent fish (0.1 ppm vitamin K recommended and is usually included in the processed diets).
Source: http://totalhealthmagazine.com/features/pet-health/vitamin-k-for-pets.html

Just above that paragraph is a long list of natural sources of vitamin K.
 
Top