Feral cat moved 2 - 3 day old kittens after we removed 2 dead ones.

smudge2525

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HI

This is the first time I have posted on a forum as I was looking for advise and came across this site. Apologies it is a long one.

We have always thrown our meat scraps out as we live in the country but December last year I happened to have the window open and realised there were 4 young cats eating what I thrown out. They started to come around every night so I continued to feed them...now after reading through some of this forum I realise that it probably isnt a good thing unless I intend to capture them and get them spayed (I know one is definitely female and pretty sure one of the others is, 2 of them are definitely boys)

We put an old hutch out for them during the bad snow we had as they seemed to be staying under our house and they use it when the weather is bad but dont generally sleep in it.

I go and sit out and feed them every night and they know and trust me although I can only properly stroke one of them but they will all eat from my hand.

The one I can stroke who is a beautiful grey and white little girl was in the hutch for 2 days and I could see what looked like another cat or a paw sticking out and thought she may have had kittens but didnt want to disturb them.  She was still in there this morning but when she saw me at the window she came out to see if I was getting her food and I noticed that what ever else was in there was in the same position so was probably dead..

While she was eating I went and checked the hutch and there were 2 dead kittens :( and 2 live ones.

I removed the 2 dead ones as I didnt want them rotting and making the others sick but she came back whilst I was doing it.

She watched me with eyes like saucers and once I had left I watched her move one and then the other, I couldnt follow her as she went into thick bushes and I didnt want to stress her out anymore than I just had.

I now feel awful for making her move her babies to possibly somewhere more open to the elements and predators.

Was removing the dead ones the best thing to do? I couldnt have left them for too much longer as they would have started to break down.  Should I have taken the 2 live ones away and got them checked out?

In anyones experience will she bring them back to the hutch or will she stay well away now? 

If she does bring them back should I just leave her to it but continue to feed her and when they get a bit older try and capture them to get them checked out and later spayed?  What would people suggest? 

How do you go about capturing feral cats as they are quite jumpy when you make sudden movements or try to touch them. Although they will take food from my hand, I cant touch 3 of them with out them pulling away (so I dont even try) They quite happily sit out with me and clean themself or shut their eyes for a cat nap but if I tried to pick one up they would go bananas.

Are there rescue places that will spay feral cats or do you take them to the vets?

Any advice is welcome...I know feeding them was probably not a good thing to do after reading this forum but I thought I was being caring and would help any animal I could, wild or tame, Thanks in advance :)  Sorry there are a lot of questions amongst all that!!
 

ondine

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Hi, Smudge2525 - welcome to TCS. First of all, thank you for helping them. Mommy got spooked but she probably moved the kittens to a safe place. They should be OK until they are old enough to come calling. She will most likely bring them, at around six weeks. At that time, you need to trap her and have her spayed. She will probably be pregnant again but it is better to have it done. Otherwise, you will have way too may cats in your yard.
 

ondine

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Feeding the cats wasn't wrong but not having them fixed is a mistake. You can buy humane traps (or if there are organizations near you that help with s/n you might be able to borrow one). Have as many fixed as you can, even the males. They will otherwise fight and howl and spray. You can usually find a rescue group on the 'net. Most can only help with resources (low cost s/n, lending traps), so be prepared to do the actual trapping yourself.

Good luck and keep us posted!
 
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smudge2525

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HI Guys

Thanks for the replies, I feel a bit guilty for feeding them in the first place and not leaving nature to its own course now but as I am an animal lover I just wanted to help them get through the winter months and snow...now I feel like they are like my cats as they come to my voice, know when feeding time is and seem to like being in my company just chilling out on the deck :).  Getting them spayed didnt really cross my mind as I thought there is no way they would let me catch them but if they were indoor cats and living with me I would have had it done, so should have thought about it really.

I will look on the net to see what local groups there are that I can get advice about how best to capture them and where to get them spayed,

She has come back for some food about an hour ago, she just had a little bit of dry food and a bit of water and then went back off in to the wooded area.  She usually eats everything but left a lot before leaving and usually she will sun herself on the deck. So pretty sure she is still looking after them, as I was also worried she may reject them or worse (although I didnt touch them when I removed the two others).  Hopefully she will bring them back if the weather gets bad or I will see them in 6 weeks when they come with mum to get food.

Was it right to remove the dead ones or should I just have left her to it, just incase I am ever in the same situation again (although hopefully I can get her and the others spayed/neutered before that happens again).

Thanks again :)
 

StefanZ

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 So pretty sure she is still looking after them, as I was also worried she may reject them or worse (although I didnt touch them when I removed the two others). 
That with touching the kittens is no that bothersome, especially as she knows you are friendly, if a human can be friendly.  Nay, it is wild rabbits and roe deers who may abandon their kids if a human touched them. Cats do not this, it is a myth.

What happened, I think, was the smell of these dead ones.... By some reason the mom didnt disposed off the corpses, carrying them away or eating them. Perhaps she didnt realized clearly they were dead, as she is young and unexperienced, and tried to give them warm and nurse as long she could.

But as you say, the bodies were surely on the verge of being rotten, thus - they had already began to smell.

So the move from this nest was oncoming anyway!  You took the bodies, but there was still some smell. So she had to move.

And cat moms are often eager to move their nest, to their humans despair.   :)

The best solution was to catch her in a human trap when she was high preg.   Or coach her into a rigged carrier. 

The next best solution - do it when they were delivered.  Or even possibly: prepare a room for them. Open the doors, collect the kittens into a basket when she sees you - and carry them in, her seeing you.  The chance would be big she would follow you and them into the house!

We had a forumite who tried with such a trick, carrying the nest with mom and kittens in.  Hovewer, the mom panicked and managed to flee, and darted quicker than an arrow from the house.  But after less then 15 minutes, who was meowing at the door and wanting in?  Yes, she run thorough all the house searching, found her kittens, layed down with them, purred and meowed....

For cat moms, like for humans moms, it is the welfare of her children which is most important, not the "freedom" as such.  As soon they realize nothing harmfully is happening, you ARE taking care of the kittens and it is their best practical chance - they do adapt and copy with the situation.

Thus, taking care of a semiferal high preg/mom is often easier then helping the same semiferal alone...

So now you had still the third defence line: she will surely come forward to you and eat.  She may come back with her kittens, moving the nest back.  (prepare another one, fresh nest).

but otherwise, she will almost surely come with them all to you when they are about 6 weeks.

Tx for caring!

Good luck!
 

ondine

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Never, ever feel guilty about helping! Like Stephan said, I think she's inexperienced enough that she didn't know what to do with the dead babies. You did fine moving them for her - and she most likely would have moved the kittens anyway. Feral mommies often move their kittens to be safe.

Good luck - if you are wiling to do a little work, it will be well worthwhile.
 
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smudge2525

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Thanks for your replies :)

As they are young and still growing I wasnt 100% sure she was pregnant as she didnt get too big.  She didn't turn up for a night which must have been when she had them and then the next night only she came which was very strange (occasionally one of them wont turn up and I worry until they turn up as normal the following night..lol) so not sure if the other 3 knew she needed some space or she was being very protective of them.  Hopefully I wont be in the same situation again but at least I know the best way forward or can ask for help on here.

I have found somewhere to call tomorrow who deal with neutering feral cat colonies so will see what they suggest or can do.

I have also put some fresh hay in the hutch incase she brings them back.

I would love to bring them into the house as I am 100% sure she would follow and probably settle right in as she does let me stroke her, but only on her terms not anytime I like, not sure my partner would be too happy about it though.  Might have to do some sweet talking first :)

I will post some photos as she is beautiful, it is a shame the 2 died as they would have been carbon copies of the 4 of them one grey and white (she is called smokey), one b & w (bandit) and 2 mainly black ones (Fudge and Smudge).   The 2 that died were a grey and white one like her  and a black and white one like her brother, the 2 little black balls of fluff were the ones that survived.  I guess they could have been inbreed which is why they had problems,  We have lots of other feral cats around so it may not of been.  I dont feed any others,  I think it is because their Mum wasnt with them from about 6 weeks old as I used to see them when they were tiny without any other cats with them but then didnt for a few months so thought something happened to them. I tried to feed them back then as they were so small and on their own but they didnt ever eat anything and ran away when I got close to them.  I think they must have been eating the scraps without me knowing for a bit so got used to being around here and as there are 4 of them they feel safer.  when it is bad weather all 4 of them snuggle up in the open but covered part of the hutch and look adorable, I had never seen 4 cats so comfortable around each other it was lovely to see.
 
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