Fairly new mom needs help finding good food

taz mom

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Hi All!

My cat Taz turned a year old April 15.  I've had him since he was about 4 weeks old as a rescue in our church parking lot.  I bottle fed him at first with KMR until he was about 6 weeks or so.  I started him on Royal Canin baby cat wet food, and he seemed to really like that, so I stuck with it and graduated him to the kitten formula in the same brand.  I was also giving him the Royal Canin kibble for neutered kittens since I was told it helped with weight management.  About 4 months or so ago I was picking up more food at PetSmart and the clerk was telling me I should switch him to grain free because it was better and the Royal Canin dry food was loaded with carbs.  I tried the Simply Nourish brand Chicken and Rice for him, but then switched him to the Blue Longevity.  The Blue brand is very fishy with the first ingredients being: 

deboned whitefish, salmon meal (source of DHA), menhaden fish meal (source of omega-3 fatty acids), chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), peas, whole ground brown rice, pea protein, potatoes, oatmeal, whole ground barley, eggs, natural flavor, oat bran, carrots, spinach, broccoli, tomatoes (source of lycopene), rice bran, flaxseed (source of omega-3 and -6 fatty acids), alfalfa meal, taurine, sunflower oil (source of omega-6 fatty acids), fish oil (source of omega-3 fatty acids), L-lysine, oil of rosemary, cranberries, blueberries, apples, barley grass, dried parsley, dried kelp, yucca schidigera extract, L-carnitine, turmeric, beta carotene, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2), niacin (vitamin B3), d-calcium pantothenate (vitamin B5), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), biotin (vitamin B7), folic acid (vitamin B9), vitamin B12 supplement, calcium ascorbate (source of vitamin C), vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, iron amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid chelate, manganese amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate, choline chloride, sodium selenite, calcium iodate, salt, caramel, dried yeast (source of saccharomyces cerevisiae), dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried bacillus subtilis fermentation product and dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product
  • Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min) 35.0%, Crude Fat (min) 18.0%, Crude Fiber (max) 3.5%, Moisture (max) 10.0%, Magnesium (min) 0.08%, Taurine (min) 0.1%, DHA* (min) 0.1%, Omega-3 Fatty Acids* (min) 0.65%, Omega-6 Fatty Acids* (min) 2.5%
Now I'm reading all this other info that a lot of the ingredients in this is also bad for him.  I'm suspecting that he is exhibiting signs of FHS and I need to find him a better food as a start.  I'm thinking that I should try to put him on an all wet food diet, or at least minimize the amount of dry food he's getting, but with all this info I have no idea where to go and what to look for.  I don't think that I'll find whatever I need from PetSmart, so I need to check out some of the smaller pet stores in my area.  At one point I tried him out on a few different grain free wet foods, but he was not impressed by them.  There was one that looked so bad, he took one wiff of it and walked away.  I went through three different cans of wet food with him (all unsuccessful) before I finally just went back to the Royal Canin wet food since I knew he'd eat that.  Now that he is a year old, I have graduated him to the adult neutered formula, and he doesn't seem to like it as much as the kitten formula.  In addition it is in gravy, which I also read on catinfo.org that was not good as well.  I'm so confused and frustrated and in need of some much needed help and advise.  On top of all of this he has gained a lot of weight since I switched him from the Royal Canin dry food to the "grain free" Blue dry food.  I guess something to help with his weight would also need to be factored in.  Would switching to all wet food help him to lose weight?  Any info anyone can provide would be most appreciated.  Sorry for the length of the thread.

-Taz Mom
 

vball91

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Hi and welcome to TCS! Cat nutrition is also what brought me to this forum. It's good that you're familiar with catinfo.org. There is a wealth of information there. Since cats are obligate carnivores, the best diet for them is high animal protein/low carbs. Grains are not only unnecessary carbs, but they can also be a source of allergens for many cats.

The catinfo.org site has a cat food comparison chart that will help you figure out which canned foods are good. There are also tips for transitioning Taz to wet. Since Taz sounds like a kibble addict, crushed up kibble on top of the wet food may be your best trick.

Oh, and you want to avoid feeding a lot of fish-based foods. There are many reasons why a primarily fish based diet is not good. Once in a while is ok.

As for losing weight, this is easier done with wet. Figure out the calories of the food you are feeding (either on the can or their website). Most adult indoor neutered cats need about 20 calories per pound of weight daily. Start feeding him at his current weight and then GRADUALLY decrease his calories each week until he is at his optimal weight. If you are free feeding dry now, you will need to get him on scheduled feedings of wet, at least 3x a day. Good luck!
 

katluver4life

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Yes indeed! It can be VERY confusing and sometimes seem like an insurmountable amount of information to take in. But good news is 1) Your cat will eat wet, 2) there are very simple rules to follow, ie high protein meat, no grains, low carbs. 3) Even Pet Smart has foods that will fall into this. Example: Fancy Feast CLASSICS. Not the considered the best, but not bad by all means. Pet Smarts brand of Great Choice poultry platter (no rice, but has by products), can be used in your food rotation. Wellness is good. Anyway, there are a lot of good grain free's out there, My 3 are on Evo, Natural Balance, Authority Chicken (Pet Smart brand), Merrick (not sold in Pet Smart, but in Petco or Pet Value), plus a few others scattered in, including Fancy Feast.

The other route is going to raw. There is a separate forum here that can help with that. Best thing you can do for him though, is to get him off dry. As Dr. Pierson says, even the worst wet is better then the best dry. You can mix the wet he likes with a bit of the food you'd like him to be on, slowly increasing the amt. Offer variety. Try different textures. I also use freeze dried 100% chicken treats crushed over the foods they may reject at first, this always gets mine to clean the bowls. There are many tips here and on catinfo.org on getting cats on wet. Oh, and just my switching mine to all wet, my male lost weight (he LOVED his kibble) and now has his waist line back.  Hope this helps. Good luck and welcome to TCS.
 
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taz mom

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I tried feeding him the Simply Nourish Chicken and Duck Stew this morning, almost the whole can.  It contains:

Water Sufficient for Processing, Chicken, Tomato, Duck, Tapioca Starch, Sunflower Oil, Xanthan Gum, Tricalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate (B1), Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Manganese Sulfate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Riboflavin Supplement (B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (B6), Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vitamin K), Vitamin B12 Supplement

Guaranteed Analysis:
  • Crude Protein (min)10.0 %
  • Crude Fat (min)1.4 %
  • Crude Fiber (max)1.0 %
  • Moisture (max)83.0 %
  • Ash (max)2.0 %
  • Taurine (max)0.05 %
I'm curious to know what the bad thing is about Ash.  I've seen other comments about not having the Ash level too high.  I noticed he ate some of the chicken, but he mainly licked up all the juice/gravy.  I left the bowl down in the hopes that he would finish it off.  I typically feed him about half a can of wet food in the mornings before I go to work and he free feeds on his kibble throughout the day.  I had been feeding him a whole can of wet twice a day but when he started gaining weight I stopped doing that because I thought it was the wet food that was causing the weight gain.  Now I know it's actually the kibble that's causing it.  I actually don't think I'll have too much trouble getting him to eat wet food so much as it will be a challenge to find one he likes.  As I said before, there was one night I went through three different cans and he turned his nose up at all of them until I went back to the Royal Canin he's been on since kittenhood. 
 

One other thing I was wondering about was whether or not it's important in transitioning when you're changing their wet food.  I've noticed people saying that they feed several different kinds of wet food and rotate them.  I was told you most definitely need to transition with dry food, so I would gradually ween him off one kind of kibble to another.  So, I'm thinking I need to gradually give him less kibble little by little until he's completely on wet food.  I know my vet was another of those that said he should have some kibble in his diet because it will help with the plaque and tartar build up on his teeth.  Now it sounds like that was a load of hogwash.

He had an issue with projectile vomiting once and the vet assistant told me to get him on Petromalt, so that is also part of his regular diet.  Since he's not a fan of taking things from people's hands, except for treats, I mix the Petromalt in with his wet food in the mornings every couple days.  It seems to help because he doesn't have any issues with vomiting or hairballs.

Last issue is that I'm gone during the day at work and while my mom is home and he's with her during the day, she has a difficult time getting around.  How am I able to feed him on a schedule of 3x a day, when I'm only available to do 2.  Or could I feed him in the morning around 6-6:30 as I do now, then feed him again around 5pm when I get home, and then again before bed around 10pm?  Maybe if I do that he'll be covered during the night when he tends to snack on his kibble.

I suppose it's all going to be a lot of trial and error until I find something that works.  Ultimately the consensus is to get him off kibble all together, right?
 

vball91

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Yes, getting him off of kibble entirely would be good. The feeding schedule you mentioned, before work, after work and before bed, is frequently used here. In the beginning, you can leave out a small measured amount of kibble overnight as he adjusts to the schedule so that he doesn't wake you up.

Petromalt is not the hairball remedy of choice on this site because of the unnecessary ingredients. Most of us use pure egg yolk lecithin which is the active ingredient which helps break up the fat that binds hairballs together.

You generally don't have to worry about transitioning wet foods.You don't need to gradually wean him off kibble. Depending on the can size (are you talking about 3oz or 5.5oz cans?), you might be feeding too much wet food. As I said, you need to look at calorie count, not portion size. Most recommended feeding guidelines are too much for most cats. Too much of any food will cause weight gain. I would stop free feeding kibble right away though.

Ash is a by-product of the cooking process, so a certain amount is unavoidable. In the past, high ash content was associated with causing FLUTD in cats, but that theory is outdated. Unless the ash content is really, really high, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
 
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taz mom

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Yes, getting him off of kibble entirely would be good. The feeding schedule you mentioned, before work, after work and before bed, is frequently used here. In the beginning, you can leave out a small measured amount of kibble overnight as he adjusts to the schedule so that he doesn't wake you up.

Petromalt is not the hairball remedy of choice on this site because of the unnecessary ingredients. Most of us use pure egg yolk lecithin which is the active ingredient which helps break up the fat that binds hairballs together.

You generally don't have to worry about transitioning wet foods.You don't need to gradually wean him off kibble. Depending on the can size (are you talking about 3oz or 5.5oz cans?), you might be feeding too much wet food. As I said, you need to look at calorie count, not portion size. Most recommended feeding guidelines are too much for most cats. Too much of any food will cause weight gain. I would stop free feeding kibble right away though.

Ash is a by-product of the cooking process, so a certain amount is unavoidable. In the past, high ash content was associated with causing FLUTD in cats, but that theory is outdated. Unless the ash content is really, really high, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
I feed him from the smaller 3.5 oz cans because I was told that you shouldn't keep wet food in the fridge for more than 72 hours.  This way the smaller can is gone in 2 days.  How do I get the pure egg yolk lecithin as a hairball remedy?  I was also told that you need to transition cats when changing their kibble because it could cause them issues with their stool.  If I cut him off cold turkey, wouldn't it have the same effect?  Or is it just the sudden change in ingredients that would cause him trouble?  I won't know for sure how much he weighs until I go to the vet, but if I took a guess, I'd say he's about 11 or 12 lbs.  He's much heavier now when I pick him up than he used to be, so it's possible it's more than that.  I know he had been about 9 lbs at the last vet visit several months ago and they said that was a good healthy, normal weight. 

If it's truly better to get him off dry food all together and it won't hurt him to stop cold turkey, then I think I'll do that.  I'm willing to try anything that will help him.  Since he's only got about 7 hours between bedtime and his breakfast, I don't think he'd have a problem with not having any kibble through the night.  There's really only one way to find out for sure though.  Thanks for all the great tips!

Taz Mom
 

katluver4life

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Originally Posted by Taz Mom  

I actually don't think I'll have too much trouble getting him to eat wet food so much as it will be a challenge to find one he likes.  As I said before, there was one night I went through three different cans and he turned his nose up at all of them until I went back to the Royal Canin he's been on since kittenhood. 
You can use the Royal Canin to introduce any new wet by mixing a bit of the new food into it, gradually increasing the amt of new. Often offering a cheaper brand wet will work to get them accustomed to getting a variety, then switch it up to introducing better quality. The Friskies pates, or Fancy Feast Classics aren't too bad, if you avoid the fish flavors, they tend to be very flavorful to cats and can be a good start to getting them used to different wet foods. Getting him used to an all wet varied diet is more important right now, then the quality of that wet food (though you want to try and still avoid grains, the Friskies pates contain a little rice). Once that first step is taken, dry food gone and eating all wet, then you can start to introduce the better quality. Many of us have very picky eating kitties and still use all these same tricks to get our furbabies to eat better.


Stopping dry cold turkey is fine as long as he'll eat enough wet to meet his caloric needs.
 
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vball91

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Originally Posted by Taz Mom  

How do I get the pure egg yolk lecithin as a hairball remedy? 
There are only two brands that I'm aware of, Swanson's and Nature's Plus. Both are fine. They should be available at your local health stores/vitamin shops or online at Amazon or Vitacost, etc. Just take the capsule, twist off and mix the contents into wet food.
 
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taz mom

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There are only two brands that I'm aware of, Swanson's and Nature's Plus. Both are fine. They should be available at your local health stores/vitamin shops or online at Amazon or Vitacost, etc. Just take the capsule, twist off and mix the contents into wet food.
Perfect!  Thank you so much.  I will go looking for those and adding them to his food and toss out the Petromalt.  It's a shame since I just bought a new tube.  Oh well.  I don't mind wasting the money if it means he'll be healthier in the long run.

Taz Mom
 
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taz mom

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There are only two brands that I'm aware of, Swanson's and Nature's Plus. Both are fine. They should be available at your local health stores/vitamin shops or online at Amazon or Vitacost, etc. Just take the capsule, twist off and mix the contents into wet food.
I forgot to ask how often to give it to him.  Is it a capsule a day, twice a day, once a week, etc?

Taz Mom
 
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taz mom

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You can use the Royal Canin to introduce any new wet by mixing a bit of the new food into it, gradually increasing the amt of new. Often offering a cheaper brand wet will work to get them accustomed to getting a variety, then switch it up to introducing better quality. The Friskies pates, or Fancy Feast Classics aren't too bad, if you avoid the fish flavors, they tend to be very flavorful to cats and can be a good start to getting them used to different wet foods. Getting him used to an all wet varied diet is more important right now, then the quality of that wet food (though you want to try and still avoid grains, the Friskies pates contain a little rice). Once that first step is taken, dry food gone and eating all wet, then you can start to introduce the better quality. Many of us have very picky eating kitties and still use all these same tricks to get our furbabies to eat better.


Stopping dry cold turkey is fine as long as he'll eat enough wet to meet his caloric needs.
It's funny, he seemed to really like the Royal Canin kitten wet food, but when I gave him the adult neutered wet food, he's not as quick to eat it, though he does eventually eat it.  I even tried mixing a little of both to try to get him used to the adult formula.  Now I give him just the neutered adult formula.  This morning I tried a different brand that I've been feeding to our older female cat.  She loves it, but he just licks up all the juice and doesn't eat much of the chicken.  He seems to prefer his food in more the pate form and not the slices or chunks.  It looks like it'll just be trial and error to see what he likes and doesn't.

Taz Mom
 
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