Territory woes and feeling sad

I truly do feel for you.  Trying to figure things out to make life peaceful for everyone is very stressful.  We have all been there,  don't get discouraged,  you are doing good things.

I was wondering something,  you said that Shadow loves the outdoors,  but that Marvin would adapt indoors.  I know your heart is with Shadow coming inside,  but what if you tried Marvin coming indoors first.  That would give Shadow his deck back,  his safe spot.  I don't think he would think you preferred Marvin by bringing him inside,  I think he would feel more secure that he didn't have to worry about where Marvin was.  If you do have a room where you could put Marvin and then perhaps put a screen between him and Jake,  that may help things between them.

Hang in there!!

KRZ said:

I truly do feel for you.  Trying to figure things out to make life peaceful for everyone is very stressful.  We have all been there,  don't get discouraged,  you are doing good things.

I was wondering something,  you said that Shadow loves the outdoors,  but that Marvin would adapt indoors.  I know your heart is with Shadow coming inside,  but what if you tried Marvin coming indoors first.  That would give Shadow his deck back,  his safe spot.  I don't think he would think you preferred Marvin by bringing him inside,  I think he would feel more secure that he didn't have to worry about where Marvin was.  If you do have a room where you could put Marvin and then perhaps put a screen between him and Jake,  that may help things between them.

Hang in there!!

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I believe you have hit the nail on the head!  I have been up since 2am when I was awakened by a cat fight outside.  It was brief, but I knew Marvin had found Shadow on the front porch and was once again asserting himself.  I have been up going round and round.  My DH wants me to surrender Marvin to a no kill shelter.  I believe he will be euthanized since he will exhibit skittish behavior and may take a long time to warm up.  He will not be the most adoptable.  He really can't be a barn cat either as he is not the least bit interested in birds, squirrels, ducks, or other wildlife.  So my conclusion has been that Marvin needs to be moved inside.  You are right that Shadow would then have his space back and if/when Patches decides to return, he would be ok too.

My only problem is of course my resident indoor, Alpha male, territorial cat, Jake.  I tried for 8 months to get Shadow and Jake acclimated.  Jake would have nothing to do with Shadow except pounce on him and attack.  I do have a spare room upstairs that Marvin could start out in.  I need to discuss this with DH first.  I do believe it would solve my outside issues, but not so sure what I would be creating inside.  But I will never know if I don't try.

Thanks for the support.

Oh,  I hope you can work it out.  If you have a spare room,  that might just be the answer.  I think Marvin truly does want to come inside,  that would make life for Shadow so much better.  I think I read that Shadow really does prefer outside life?  There are so many things available now to make them warm in winter, depending on finances,  there are heated houses on the market that are just great.   There are Feralvilla shelters that are warm and very safe.   If a cat wants to be outside,  there are ways to keep them safe.

As for Jake and Marvin, if Marvin could stay in the spare room,  is there any way you could put a screen door on the room?   That way they can see each other but not have any physical contact.  I had to do that and it really worked.   At first I had the cats in the bedroom and would go in constantly and play with them,  but I felt they were so closed off.  So my husband made a screen door,   at first there was alot of curiosity on both sides,  some hissing,  but I would just ignore it.   I left the screen door on for months.   Then just leave it open for short periods of time when I was home.  Never at night and never when I wasn't around.  Now the screen door is gone.  I think they just got so used to each other it wasn't a big deal any more.

I think you are so wonderful to help them out,   so sweet to care so much about them.  It is very stressful, I know.  But keep doing what you are doing, things will work out.  Keep updating,  I am hoping to hear good things!!

Hmmm maybe Jake would react differently to Marvin if his personality is very different?   A lot depends on what the happens when the aggressive cat puts on their display - if the other cat doesn't show fear sometimes they just calm down.    I once had regal female cat that would just stare down anyone that confronted her, there were no fights, no one dared to fight with her!

On Saturday I decided to try and see if Marvin would like to come inside.  I had my indoor cat and dog put away and all doors closed and stairs gated.  He did come right in, but didn't go too far.  Yet it was a good first start.  I tried again on Sunday and this time he stayed a bit longer and even laid down for a quick nap.  I had some tuna available as well.  Today ( Monday) Marvin was being a real stinker.  It was lightly raining and he was sitting by the door just getting himself soaked.  I was busy and unable to have him in at that time.  Shadow was out front in his little tent keeping dry.  Marvin decided to visit Shadow and was being a real pest.  He kept trying to get Shadow out of his tent and when he succeeded he was going after him.  I was finally able to corral Marvin back to the deck and decided to let him come inside.  He was a drowned rat, but was so brave and walked all over the first floor, exploring everything.  He was inside for almost an hour and even slept for a bit in the family room. 

DH and I decided it was time to move Marvin inside.  The upstairs room was mostly ready and we had the rest together in a short while.  Now I only needed to get Marvin upstairs.  I decided to use a smallish dog crate and place some tuna inside.  He would never go in far enough.  I even tried getting a towel over him and shoving him in, but he was too strong and got away from me.  Of course he was not happy and has since refused to come inside.  The only way I can think of to get him inside the house and upstairs is to trap him.  I would love to see if he would just follow me upstairs as he did while exploring downstairs, but I seriously doubt that will work. 

I have a trap on hand and may need to use it.  I really don't have time to try and acclimate him to a carrier as he continues to go after Shadow and I need to keep Shadow safe.  I also need to get him to the vet.  He has been neutered and has a rabies shot, but he will need the herpes vaccine as well as being check for Feline leukemia.  So I have no idea how in the heck I will get him to the vet either.  He also has filthy ears and I cannot clean them thoroughly enough. 

There always seems to be issues. 

Do you have a vet or clinic that would take Marvin if you get him trapped and check him out, clean is ears and give him his shots? Maybe they would give him some sort of sedative. If you cann arrange for that to happen, I would do it and then bring him home and just release him in your spare room. He can stay in there for however long it takes him to acclimate, just spend time with him. You will also be able to get Shadow back on the deck.
Do the visiting cats that go after Marvin also go after Shadow? Poor Shadow, it would be nice if he could have your deck area all to himself.

KRZ said:

Do you have a vet or clinic that would take Marvin if you get him trapped and check him out, clean is ears and give him his shots? Maybe they would give him some sort of sedative. If you cann arrange for that to happen, I would do it and then bring him home and just release him in your spare room. He can stay in there for however long it takes him to acclimate, just spend time with him. You will also be able to get Shadow back on the deck.
Do the visiting cats that go after Marvin also go after Shadow? Poor Shadow, it would be nice if he could have your deck area all to himself.

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I am going to call my vet this morning when they open.  I have spoken with her before about my ferals and she would see them so I know Marvin will be fine to go there.  It will just be a matter of getting him there.  I am hoping for the sedative. 

I set the trap last evening and he wouldn't go near it.  He didn't get any food last night.  So this morning at 6 am I set it again and put it out.  He won't go near it.  I do have a medium size dog carrier that I also have out with some tuna and some of his regular food.  I sad out there with him for almost an hour and he would sniff, but not close enough for me to get him inside.  I hope hunger will win out soon.  I may have to call it a morning and try again this evening as I have to leave by 9:30 or 10.

Any ideas on how to get him in the trap or carrier?  I really didn't think it would be this hard.  He must remember the trap since I trapped him in early March to get him neutered.  I guess if nothing else I will start feeding him in the carrier and see if that will work.

Last night was a good night.  Marvin left Shadow alone.  Yet, the darn raccoons are really bothering Shadow.  One of them went right into his little tent.

Poor Shadow,  he just needs everyone to leave him alone.  As long as there isn't any food around at night,  the raccoons should leave him alone.  But I have 1 feral that only comes by at night,  and so I am never sure if he is getting the food or the raccoons,   I can usually tell by the water.  If the water is clean, I know the cat ate,  if the water is dirty,  the raccoons ate instead.

I would probably try the carrier,  it seems as if you can touch Marvin, maybe just put the food in the carrier and let him go inside and close the door.  Eventually hunger wins out!  Good luck!

KRZ said:

Poor Shadow,  he just needs everyone to leave him alone.  As long as there isn't any food around at night,  the raccoons should leave him alone.  But I have 1 feral that only comes by at night,  and so I am never sure if he is getting the food or the raccoons,   I can usually tell by the water.  If the water is clean, I know the cat ate,  if the water is dirty,  the raccoons ate instead.

I would probably try the carrier,  it seems as if you can touch Marvin, maybe just put the food in the carrier and let him go inside and close the door.  Eventually hunger wins out!  Good luck!

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I did it!!!!  Right after I posted I decided to go out and try again.  He started into the carrier and just just helped him a bit.  He did scratch me with his back leg, but it's just a little wound.  He was so scared, but I got him up to his safe room.  I stayed with him for awhile and then left him to explore.  I will go up and check on him in just a few minutes.  I am just so happy I did it.

Now to communicate to Shadow that he is safe from Marvin.

The raccoons don't bother him too badly.  They are just looking for food.  I don't leave cat food out at all, just a small dish of water.  The raccoons always wash their paws  in it!!  I do feed the birds and there is a bird feeder close to the front stoop so they are quite close to Shadow.  He just watches and hisses at them if they get to close.  The skunks are often there too.  Hopefully he will find his way back to the deck in a few days.

Thanks for all the encouragement!

I'm so glad!  Maybe now Shadow can have his space, the raccoons will give up in time if there's no food for them, and Marvin can become a happy indoor kitty.    Keep us posted!

Good news for Shadow, he was on the deck all night!!  Some how he just knew what I was saying to him.  It was so refreshing this morning to see him on the loveseat just like old times.  He did not take long at all!

Marvin had a bit of a rough night.  He seemed to be awake and at the window all night.  I was able to put one of our surveillance cameras in his room.  He was very nervous.  He did not use the litter box that was full of litter attract, but inside peed and pooped just outside of it.  Any suggestions on how to get him to use the box?  He hasn't eaten a bite.  Then this morning around 5:30 am I awoke to him pitifully crying.  I let it go on for awhile, but figured I needed to check on him.  Getting inside the door is somewhat difficult as he tries to bolt.  I positioned a gate outside the door in case he does escape.  I then put another gate about 3 feet inside of the door to keep him away.  Well, there was a small night stand right by the inside gate and I believe he jumped onto it and then over the gate.  Yet he could have just jumped it.  So when I went to the door, he was sticking his paws underneath the door.  It was so hard to get inside.  I tried at least 5x before getting in.  Any suggestions on how to get him away from the door? 

He settled after seeing me and seems to like the harp music I have playing.  I shut it off last night, but wonder if I should let it go all day and night? 

Any suggestions for helping him to settle?  I have a feliway diffuser and spray.  I am using rescue remedy as well.

Thanks for any help.
 

Wow!  Some exciting news.  I am so happy for Shadow,  and it seems he is happy to have his deck back too.

I think Marvin will be fine,  he is just scared.   It takes time and patience.  The harp music is great, along with the Rescue Remedy and the Feliway.  Once he gets used to his new surroundings,  he will adjust.  And he knows you will be spending time with him,  he will enjoy that.  Maybe take some treats in to him and a special wand toy that you use for just him.

I think if you eventually can do it,  a screen door would really help him.   I used it with ferals and it really works,  they can see out and don't feel so confined,  but yet are safe from the rest of the house.  I think in a few days, you will see him acclimate to indoors.  He is just afraid.  

You are doing such a wonderful job!!

Yay for Shadow!    Now just gotta get Marvin happy and all will be well.   I've read about people making a cardboard "shield" that they hold with one hand to push the cat back (and protect from attack if an angry feral) when entering the room.   Maybe that would work?

Bastfriend said:

Yay for Shadow!    Now just gotta get Marvin happy and all will be well.   I've read about people making a cardboard "shield" that they hold with one hand to push the cat back (and protect from attack if an angry feral) when entering the room.   Maybe that would work?

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Good idea.  The gate inside the door knocked over during the day yesterday and must have scared him as he stays away from it for now.  Yet, I can see him panicking and jumping it too. 

The problem now is that he isn't using the litter box.  The first night he pooped and peed on the bathmat I had the litter box sitting on.  I added another box, but he has not gone at all.  I have checked the room and don't smell anything unusual.  I may need to add some soil to the litter attract.

My suggestion would have been an extra box and some dirt on top of the litter.  I am sure he will use it.

OH WOW!!! Had some catching up to do! Wonderful job with Marvin and I am so happy you and your husband are taking this step with him. Be patient and don't worry because what you are going through Is very common. This might help and you may have already read this article, but in case not .... http://www.catnipchronicles.com/may2012/laurie.htm Since Marvin is not a true feral cat then you can try this when you enter the room to teach him to stay back. Spritz some Feliway as you open the door about an inch. The spray can is actually cheaper than the diffuser. The spritz noise will back him off plus give him the added benefit of the pheromones too!! :lol3: It has worked for me many a time when I had a cat wanting to "door dash" every time I enter. I use the spray because then you can spritz certain areas of the room every 12 hours for a more effective benefit.

Pick up some of this from Dr. Elsey Use a cup full and just lightly mix it into the litter on the surface. Large open boxes are the best. You can also add in some soil. I have not ever had to use soil. The herbal litter attractant works very, very well for stray/feral cats.

Feralvr said:

OH WOW!!! Had some catching up to do! Wonderful job with Marvin and I am so happy you and your husband are taking this step with him. Be patient and don't worry because what you are going through Is very common. This might help and you may have already read this article, but in case not .... http://www.catnipchronicles.com/may2012/laurie.htm Since Marvin is not a true feral cat then you can try this when you enter the room to teach him to stay back. Spritz some Feliway as you open the door about an inch. The spray can is actually cheaper than the diffuser. The spritz noise will back him off plus give him the added benefit of the pheromones too!!

It has worked for me many a time when I had a cat wanting to "door dash" every time I enter. I use the spray because then you can spritz certain areas of the room every 12 hours for a more effective benefit.

Pick up some of this from Dr. Elsey Use a cup full and just lightly mix it into the litter on the surface. Large open boxes are the best. You can also add in some soil. I have not ever had to use soil. The herbal litter attractant works very, very well for stray/feral cats.

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Thanks so much for the wonderful article and the Feliway spritz idea.  So far the gates are working, but so hard to climb over each time.  He seems to knock the gate in front of the door over each night, but doesn't cross it.  At least I will have some ideas if I need him away from the door.

I am using the Cat Attract litter.  I have 2 litter trays with one just Litter Attract and the other Litter Attract with a layer of soil on top.  Last night he pooped inside the just litter box, bu then peed on a blanket i had on the floor.  At least some progress!!

He is very distraught at night.  He seems to cry alot and that he when he climbs or knocks over the gate.  Last night he cried for an hour then settled down for an hour and then cried again for 45 minutes.  I don't go in to check on him since I don't want to create a habit.  Any ideas how to soothe him at night.  I gave him 2 Feline composure treats before bed last night and he was calm for about 4 hours, but then it took him along time to settle.

It's now Sunday afternoon and Marvin has been inside and in his safe room since Tuesday.  He is very very calm during the day and prefers to spend most of his day sleeping.  I am trying to go in or send DH in to visit him every 2-4 hours.  He began using the litter box on Friday night.  He wouldn't touch the one I put dirt in, but is now consistently using the Litter Attract box.  He eats really well and just loves it when we come to visit.  He just wants to be pet and pet and pet!  I am trying really hard to get him to play.  When he was living outside he liked playing with string and Neko flies.  He also loved catnip toys.  Now he will play for maybe 15 seconds and sniff at the catnip toy for about the same amount of time.  I know he must be bored.  I have tried feathers, Da bird, laser pointers, all sorts of catnip toys.  I am at a loss on how to engage him other than petting.  Maybe that is enough for now.  Any ideas?  He is up almost all night and very very restless.  He climbs over the gate I have by the door, but has figured out how to climb back over it.  He has pretty short legs and doesn't jump much.  He still meows and cries quite a bit at night.  I gave him 3 composure feline last night as well as leaving the harp music on all night.  He just moves around and is so unsettled.  If he would be awake more during the day or I could make him tired with play that would help.  When he lived outside, he would be awake til near noon then sleep til 7pm or so.  He would then me up til 11 or midnight.  Most nights he hardly left the deck and if he did it was for less than an hour.  So I know he was used to sleeping alot. 

All in all he is doing pretty well. 
 

  glad things are going well!   Is Shadow enjoying the peace and quiet still?

Bastfriend said:

  glad things are going well!   Is Shadow enjoying the peace and quiet still?

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Shadow is one happy boy!!  He is almost always on the deck now, day and night.  He is also running around the backyard like a crazy cat!  I am so happy to see him back to his old self. 

Last night was a good night for Marvin.  I didn't hear him crying at all!!  I decided to have my DH go into to see Marvin just before bed instead of myself.  DH gave him 3 feline composure and spent a bit of time with him.  After DH left the room, Marvin went right to his condo by the window and just watched the outside.  This morning when I came with his breakfast he wasn't hiding, he was out in the middle of the floor waiting for me.  After eating a bit he played with one of the catnip toys!