Gastric (?) issues and weight loss

chloespriestess · May 16, 2013

Is he eating regularly and passing stool regularly at least, even if it's soft? You are certain that he is eating? (Not your other kitty stealing his sick food?)

Does it seem like he is drinking significant amounts of water? Is he well hydrated? Do you do "pinch test" or "gum test" for dehydration?

He is not vomiting anymore? (Vomiting after pooing could be from straining.)

What does the vet say?

Has he had sub-Q fluid (the fluid under the skin) since the visit two weeks ago? Is your vet willing to let you do it at home if need be?

You might want to hold off on Miralax if his stool is still runny; or give him less of it. Change in diet alone can be sometimes enough to control the problem.

It's hard (though not impossible) to get cats to eat pumpkin...They recommend it because of its high water content, but because it's also high fiber, it bulks up the stool. I never used it.

If cutting down on Miralax doesn't work, try different kind of wet food to see if it helps to form stool better. I would stay away from grain ingredients like corn and wheat, but don't try too many different ones in a row. You don't want him to start holding out for something better. It's also easier to see what the core of the problem is if you stick to one thing at a time. I have used EVO canned; they seem to like the taste and it's grain free. Did you check out catinfo.org 's food list?

There is also a drug that can help his appetite, but he won't be likely to eat if he has food that needs to be passed.

Do make sure his sleeping spot is warm and draft free. His body needs to stay warm. You can make him a hot water bottle with a small soda bottle filled with hot (not scalding) water, them put it in one of your old woolly sock. (Please make sure the cap is secure.)

...but please, take him to his vet if anything drastically changes. You should also inform him/her about anything you are doing.

Keep us posted!

redsmom79 · May 19, 2013

Chloespriestess said:
Is he eating regularly and passing stool regularly at least, even if it's soft? You are certain that he is eating? (Not your other kitty stealing his sick food?)

Does it seem like he is drinking significant amounts of water? Is he well hydrated? Do you do "pinch test" or "gum test" for dehydration?

He is not vomiting anymore? (Vomiting after pooing could be from straining.)

What does the vet say?

Has he had sub-Q fluid (the fluid under the skin) since the visit two weeks ago? Is your vet willing to let you do it at home if need be?

You might want to hold off on Miralax if his stool is still runny; or give him less of it. Change in diet alone can be sometimes enough to control the problem.

It's hard (though not impossible) to get cats to eat pumpkin...They recommend it because of its high water content, but because it's also high fiber, it bulks up the stool. I never used it.

If cutting down on Miralax doesn't work, try different kind of wet food to see if it helps to form stool better. I would stay away from grain ingredients like corn and wheat, but don't try too many different ones in a row. You don't want him to start holding out for something better. It's also easier to see what the core of the problem is if you stick to one thing at a time. I have used EVO canned; they seem to like the taste and it's grain free. Did you check out catinfo.org 's food list?

There is also a drug that can help his appetite, but he won't be likely to eat if he has food that needs to be passed.

Do make sure his sleeping spot is warm and draft free. His body needs to stay warm. You can make him a hot water bottle with a small soda bottle filled with hot (not scalding) water, them put it in one of your old woolly sock. (Please make sure the cap is secure.)

...but please, take him to his vet if anything drastically changes. You should also inform him/her about anything you are doing.

Keep us posted!

He's eating much better than he was. I'm feeding him twice a day with meds mixed in, and he's been eating all of his food. He's still drinking and urinating fine. He hasn't vomited since the last time. He actually passed two hard nuggets into the box and a really nice stool on the steps last night. They were all small, but at least I know there really is something in there and he doesn't just have diarrhea. So I'm going to keep up with the Miralax for now. I haven't checked around this morning yet, but I can smell something so I'm anticipating at least a small mess. He'll go in his box first, but then he'll have a couple of small messes on the floor on his way back to wherever he's going, like he's still getting signals from his body to push.

redsmom79 · May 19, 2013

Ok, another small formed stool in the box, and little bits of formed stool in the follow-up mess on the floor. Can anyone give me an idea of how long this additional mess might last once he's all cleaned out? That's assuming he was only constipated and we're not dealing with a bigger problem like IBD. And how do I know when to ease up on the Miralax? Right now, he's getting 1/4 tsp twice a day.

mrsgreenjeens · May 19, 2013

How much does he weigh? We gave our Svennie 1/8th teas twice a day. He weighed about 6 lbs (also skin and bones) and was on Miralax twice a day just to KEEP him regular. If we didn't give it to him, then he would get backed up instantly. We just dissolved it in a little bit of water and mixed it into a little bit of canned food, made sure he ate that, then gave him more food.

Are you still giving him cooked chicken as well as his canned food? (what's his name, BTW? Is this Red we are talking about?) Anyway, if you are still giving him cooked chicken, you can also mix that with a little bit of white rice cooked in the chicken broth. It's not nutritionally complete, but can be used for a couple of days just to calm down his digestive system.

Additionally, are you giving him any probiotics? They probably won't help with constipation (but who knows...they help ME with it

), I'm guessing his gut flora is all out of whack by now, so probiotics would probably be very helpful. We give all our cats the same ones we take ourselves. These: . I just open up a capsule and mix 1/2 capsule into their wet food in the morning and put the other half in at night.

Hee's a thread that discusses a little bit about how to use Slippery Elm Bark (along with probiotics

):

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/253036/help-explosive-poop#post_3291827

Oh yes, if he's eating well, but really boney at this point, I'd try adding in one more meal of canned food if you can manage it. Have you got him completely off kibble now? Kibble has more calories than canned, so he may need more canned. Course, I have no idea how much you are feeding him

chloespriestess · May 19, 2013

RedsMom79 said:
OK, another small formed stool in the box, and little bits of formed stool in the follow-up mess on the floor. Can anyone give me an idea of how long this additional mess might last once he's all cleaned out? That's assuming he was only constipated and we're not dealing with a bigger problem like IBID. And how do I know when to ease up on the Miralax? Right now, he's getting 1/4 tsp twice a day.

If the "additional mess" is close to the box, I think what is happening is that he goes to the box because he feels he has to go, he does the business, he thinks he is done, gets out of the box, he feels he still has to go and don't have time to get back into the box. Even if he has not developed Mega colon, his system might be irritated due to the serious bowl issues he suffered. It might take a while for his system to heal and get used to the new diet.

Most importantly, this "new" type of stool feels different to him from the dry, hard, bulky stool he has been passing for years, so he has to learn the different, more subtle signal. Poo from canned food tend to be smaller and thinner though it depends on the individual food.

If the "addition" is far away from the box all the time or all over the house, far and wide, or in completely unrelated place like how he did it in the bathtub, it could be a sign of another constipation. (He is straining as he is walking.) So, do keep an eye.

I would continue Miramax as long as he is having accidents. (Provided he is not having diarrhea, of course.) It's helping his stool to be soft enough to pass, so less taxing on his system. (Imagine a dry stool passing on already irritated tissue.) Unlike Lactulose, it doesn't give cramps is what I heard. You are lucky he takes it with his food so you don't have to give it by oral syringe!

But do consult the vet. They might have different advice.

redsmom79 · May 19, 2013

Red was about 10 lbs at his last vet visit. He should be 12-14. I started putting some dry Friskies in with the wet food just to get him to the bowl, and I would add a little more water. He's been eating well for the last few days, so I hope his weight will come back. I have him mainly on Nature's Variety; the chicken was to give his system a rest and get him to eat.

The additional mess is right outside of the box, then he'll squeeze a few more drops along the way to wherever he was going (usually back upstairs to my room).

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow to figure out how to proceed. He's still getting the Prednisolone twice a day. She gave me instructions for weaning him off, but I'd like to revisit that before doing it.

Thanks for the links!

ldg · May 19, 2013

And how much miralax are you giving him, and how frequently?

jclark · May 20, 2013

RedsMom79 said:
Red was about 10 lbs at his last vet visit. He should be 12-14. I started putting some dry Friskies in with the wet food just to get him to the bowl, and I would add a little more water. He's been eating well for the last few days, so I hope his weight will come back. I have him mainly on Nature's Variety; the chicken was to give his system a rest and get him to eat.

The additional mess is right outside of the box, then he'll squeeze a few more drops along the way to wherever he was going (usually back upstairs to my room).

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow to figure out how to proceed. He's still getting the Prednisolone twice a day. She gave me instructions for weaning him off, but I'd like to revisit that before doing it.

Thanks for the links!

Right now I am going through this exact thing with my 14 yr old Main Coon but I'm dealing with a food aversion on top of it. My cat has confirmed IBD as of Sat evening.

The ER vet told me bland canned food until he has stabilized. The ER Vet made it seem like at least a month before attempting to introduce different food. He suggested something such as HIlls Hypoallengenic (I had a leftover can from another cat who was older and was on that food). Supposedly the secret is to avoid foods which can cause irritation and an antigen response in the GI tract. He said unfortunately this means foods that are lower in protein and it's hard to get a cat to gain weight when it's not eating a lot of protein. My cat just started a 14 day regimen of medicine (liquid steroid I believe) and will be reintroduced to the Hills Hypo.

Now if my cat does not respond to the medicine and the food then in all likelihood he has Gastric Lymphoma but he said it's not likely since his weight has stabilized over these past couple months. Cancer generally entails rapid and continuous weight loss instead of rapid but then stabilized weight loss.

Hopefully my old man will start eating agin since at this point the ball is in his court. He should be getting tired of having the runs and starving by now.

Btw...Miralax / Metamucil dosage is typically 1/4 tsp once per day.

Good luck.

Good luck.

redsmom79 · May 20, 2013

LDG said:
And how much miralax are you giving him, and how frequently?

1/4 tsp, twice a day. That seemed to be the sweet spot that got some hard stool out the other day, but I skipped this morning. He had some pudding consistency stool this morning (out of the box and on the steps). This is different than when he had the wet stool pushing past the hard stool.

chloespriestess · May 20, 2013

Perhaps the vet would say it's OK for you to cut down the dose to 1/8?

I don't know what kind of litter box you use, but sometimes lower sided one or open (instead of covered) one is easier for them during such times. Just like us, they want to have an easy access to the facility when they are having tummy trouble.

When mine had the same issue, I lined under and around the litter box with newspaper and just stripped the soiled one and tossed it in the garbage, poo and all, every time she didn't quite make it to the box. Some cats start using the newspaper as litter, so do keep an eye.

They also sometimes get fatigued trying to go and balancing on the litter, they exit the box to get better balance on the floor. This seems to be more prevalent in older cats.

vball91 · May 20, 2013

JClark said:
Right now I am going through this exact thing with my 14 yr old Main Coon but I'm dealing with a food aversion on top of it. My cat has confirmed IBD as of Sat evening.

The ER vet told me bland canned food until he has stabilized. The ER Vet made it seem like at least a month before attempting to introduce different food. He suggested something such as HIlls Hypoallengenic (I had a leftover can from another cat who was older and was on that food). Supposedly the secret is to avoid foods which can cause irritation and an antigen response in the GI tract.

I agree with the statement in bold for an IBD cat.

JClark said:
Right now I am going through this exact thing with my 14 yr old Main Coon but I'm dealing with a food aversion on top of it. My cat has confirmed IBD as of Sat evening.

The ER vet told me bland canned food until he has stabilized. The ER Vet made it seem like at least a month before attempting to introduce different food. He suggested something such as HIlls Hypoallengenic (I had a leftover can from another cat who was older and was on that food). Supposedly the secret is to avoid foods which can cause irritation and an antigen response in the GI tract. He said unfortunately this means foods that are lower in protein and it's hard to get a cat to gain weight when it's not eating a lot of protein. My cat just started a 14 day regimen of medicine (liquid steroid I believe) and will be reintroduced to the Hills Hypo.

That does not make sense to me. Yes, you want to avoid anything that might create an allergenic/inflammatory response. This generally means a novel protein diet, not a food that's lower in protein. Cats needs high good-quality animal protein and low carbs. It does not make sense to feed an IBD kitty a lower protein food which normally means more fillers/carbs.

Hypoallergenic foods work by using hydrolyzed proteins. Hydrolysis breaks down the protein into particles so small that, according to the research, the protein is no longer recognized by the immune system as an allergen. The system is only being tricked into not responding to the food it has grown allergic to, assuming the hydrolyzed protein works as advertised. The hydrolysis process doesn't convert the protein into amino acids in the same way as would be done naturally, and it's not clear what feeding this diet long-term will do.

ldg · May 20, 2013

Chloespriestess said:
Perhaps the vet would say it's OK for you to cut down the dose to 1/8?

I don't know what kind of litter box you use, but sometimes lower sided one or open (instead of covered) one is easier for them during such times. Just like us, they want to have an easy access to the facility when they are having tummy trouble.

When mine had the same issue, I lined under and around the litter box with newspaper and just stripped the soiled one and tossed it in the garbage, poo and all, every time she didn't quite make it to the box. Some cats start using the newspaper as litter, so do keep an eye.

They also sometimes get fatigued trying to go and balancing on the litter, they exit the box to get better balance on the floor. This seems to be more prevalent in older cats.

Sounds like maybe a lower dose is in order?

ldg · May 20, 2013

vball91 said:
That does not make sense to me. Yes, you want to avoid anything that might create an allergenic/inflammatory response. This generally means a novel protein diet, not a food that's lower in protein. Cats needs high good-quality animal protein and low carbs. It does not make sense to feed an IBD kitty a lower protein food which normally means more fillers/carbs.

Makes no sense to me either. Some cats do well with novel proteins, as mentioned. Others do well with unprocessed proteins and a species-appropriate diet (raw food, though homemade cooked should produce similar results, it just requires a bit more supplementation). Many with kitties diagnosed IBD have seen the issue clear up quite quickly on a raw diet, which can have high levels of protein in it. Some kitties with IBD have intestinal damage that causes them to be sensitive to levels of fat in the diet... but I've never seen high protein be a problem for an IBD kitty.

chloespriestess · May 20, 2013

IBD-protein-carb has been debated for a long time. I don't think anyone has a definitive answer yet.

In my cat's case though, she was on high carb dry kibble diet most of her life and she hit the crisis around 10 or 11. That's when I switched her diet to high quality, high protein, low carb diet (They call it "Catkins") like EVO canned, Nature's Variety Raw. She was on it for the next 6-7 years, then her kidney started to wear down. The common school of thought is that protein destroys the kidney function; though this is debated also. I think it's just her age.

I sought canned food she likes that she can pass (the perscription diet was a no-go) and now she is on Hi-Tor Neo at age 18. Though she is still prone to constipation sometimes (I watch the litter box like a hawk), she is doing well. Her BUN is high, but it's a low-high, something quite expected, considering her age.

What disturbs me is that I see so many kitties that have IBD, diabetes, Mega colon, etc. and it all seems to coincide with the advent of dry kibble market. When I hear people tell me that their kitties are having internal trouble, 9 out of 10, they have been on kibble diet (high-carb.)

The most important thing is to educate yourself on feline nutrition as much as you can, which I can see that you are doing because you are a good kitty mum. Unlike 10, 20 years ago, there are so many resources available. (What do we do without the Internet??) For me, catinfo.org and felinecrf.org were most helpful. There are books available too. On "Catkins", I recommend "Your Cat" by Elizabeth Hodgkins. Check your local library. They have chockful of cat books.

redsmom79 · May 20, 2013

Chloespriestess said:
Perhaps the vet would say it's OK for you to cut down the dose to 1/8?

I don't know what kind of litter box you use, but sometimes lower sided one or open (instead of covered) one is easier for them during such times. Just like us, they want to have an easy access to the facility when they are having tummy trouble.

When mine had the same issue, I lined under and around the litter box with newspaper and just stripped the soiled one and tossed it in the garbage, poo and all, every time she didn't quite make it to the box. Some cats start using the newspaper as litter, so do keep an eye.

They also sometimes get fatigued trying to go and balancing on the litter, they exit the box to get better balance on the floor. This seems to be more prevalent in older cats.

She wants to stick with the Pred for now, and hold off on the Miralax. I forgot to ask about the probiotic. I do have some here.

He's a tall cat, so I have jumbo boxes. Sometimes his butt hangs over, and that's fine. It's nothing new. Sometimes he does go on the paper I have underneath. The real problem is when he walks away, and I'm cleaning up a trail. And the wet farts on my bed.

chloespriestess · May 20, 2013

I know... it's annoying when they make a mess.They don't mean to; they just don't feel well. We can only hope someone is going to clean up after us when we are their age!

I have a designated towel or a blanket my cat likes to sleep on top of my bedding and change that as needed. Luckily she loves towel and blankets. (Of course it didn't work when she got sick one morning and decided to throw up on my pillow right next to my head; I think she came to me to let me know she wasn't feeling well...)

They just don't make litter boxes big or long enough for boy cats. My friend who had a jumbo cat (He was the size of a male miniature Schnauzer) he had to buy one of those maxing trays construction people use!

mrsgreenjeens · May 20, 2013

For an extra large litter box, I use a rubbermade tub and cut an opening in the front, then lined the opening with duct tape in case there were any rough edges. Works great! I cut out the opening on the narrower end, made it about 6 inches wide and about 8 inches deep (from the top). It was a little hard to cut..think I might have used garden shears or something like that, but it worked great. I actually did this because I have a digger, and was tired of having litter all over the place. But I also have a very large boy (was 15 lbs before his diet), and he fits in there just fine!

redsmom79 · May 21, 2013

I emptied a probiotic capsule into his food this morning. I'm getting a little desperate, but I don't want to do too much too fast. I remember the first time I took a probiotic, it did a little number on me and I don't want to aggravate him further. I also have some slippery elm bark powder on the way. Should I try the probiotic every day? Every other day?

Poor thing has pulled out some hair off the back of one of his legs in an effort to stay clean. I wipe him down a couple of times a day, but he usually poos overnight, so I don't get to him until the morning. Between being so bony and the missing fur, I think that leg is getting sensitive.

ldg · May 21, 2013

See how he does with the probiotic. It's best used every day. For our Chumley, our vet actually recommended that the 10 billion CFU be used twice a day. Our instructions were to mix it with the slippery elm bark powder (1/4 teaspoon of slippery elm bark powder), and add 1 teaspoon of George's Aloe Vera Juice (George's, because it is distilled only from the inner leaf, not the latex which is toxic to cats, and it has no preservatives in it), let it gel up, and add it to his food twice a day.

But it's always best to start with one thing, then gradually increase the dose or add other things. I'd start with the probiotic once a day to see how it goes. :vibes:

:vibes;

redsmom79 · May 21, 2013

LDG said:
See how he does with the probiotic. It's best used every day. For our Chumley, our vet actually recommended that the 10 billion CFU be used twice a day. Our instructions were to mix it with the slippery elm bark powder (1/4 teaspoon of slippery elm bark powder), and add 1 teaspoon of George's Aloe Vera Juice (George's, because it is distilled only from the inner leaf, not the latex which is toxic to cats, and it has no preservatives in it), let it gel up, and add it to his food twice a day.

But it's always best to start with one thing, then gradually increase the dose or add other things. I'd start with the probiotic once a day to see how it goes.

:vibes;

Ok, thanks. I came home to a small piece of soft, formed stool with some very loose stool around it. I hope this means we're headed in the right direction. This is the 2nd day off the Miralax.

Gastric (?) issues and weight loss

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