Gastric (?) issues and weight loss

redsmom79 · Apr 30, 2013

Hi. My 13-yo male has been having issues with bowel movements, and he recently lost a noticeable amount of weight. I noticed the weight loss first, but then he pooped in the tub one day, and there was some blood and mucus in his stool. I took him to the vet, he had a senior panel and rectal exam, and I brought a stool sample. They found absolutely nothing. He is about 2 lbs lighter than what's normal for him. We were sent home with some metronidazole, which is almost impossible to give him (I guess the taste is awful, so I've been mixing it in his food).

The bright red blood is gone, but his stool is still off-color with some mucus. It doesn't look blood-tinged like it used to, but it's still kind of a light rusty color. Last night, just the liquid came out, and then he strained a light-colored poop somewhere else. And I found more of the liquid in the tub this morning (haven't found more poop yet), and he just vomited a bit.

Any ideas? I was hoping they'd find something easily treatable in his labs, but finding nothing at all seems weird. No new stress that I can think of. I did pick up a new bag of his usual food sometime before all of this, but I can't recall how close to these symptoms. However, I don't think he's really been eating as much as he normally would. I have another cat, so it's hard to tell which one ate how much.

vball91 · Apr 30, 2013

Honestly, I would get a second opinion. This could be IBD which does not show up on regular tests. Losing 2 pounds recently is a lot of weight for a cat to lose, and I think your instinct is right that something is wrong.

What is the brand of the dry food? There have been several recalls lately for salmonella contamination so that is a possibility although not as likely since you have 2 cats eating the same food.

redsmom79 · Apr 30, 2013

He's been on Science Diet c/d and w/d for years. The other cat throws up quite a bit, but I got her from a friend about a year ago, and she was a puker from the beginning. But she's super skittish and I figured it was nerves (we didn't get to pet her until 5 months after we got her, and it took her a year to come up from the basement while we're around). She would often throw up close to the food, like we caught her off guard and she freaked out. My friend thought the puking was odd, but I honestly couldn't tell if she was really surprised or just feeling guilty for not telling me. Now I'm really starting to wonder about this food though.....

What would be a remedy besides lifelong medication? Special diet?

catzarella · Apr 30, 2013

Do not play around. The minute you see vomiting, get him to the vet. Take note how the cat vomits and poops. Is it projectile? Is your cat putting out red blood or maroon? Show your vet the stool sample for color. Don't let your geri-cat become dehydrated. I guess his geri-panel did not show liver disease? Good luck.

mrsgreenjeens · Apr 30, 2013

RedsMom79 said:
He's been on Science Diet c/d and w/d for years. The other cat throws up quite a bit, but I got her from a friend about a year ago, and she was a puker from the beginning. But she's super skittish and I figured it was nerves (we didn't get to pet her until 5 months after we got her, and it took her a year to come up from the basement while we're around). She would often throw up close to the food, like we caught her off guard and she freaked out. My friend thought the puking was odd, but I honestly couldn't tell if she was really surprised or just feeling guilty for not telling me. Now I'm really starting to wonder about this food though.....

What would be a remedy besides lifelong medication? Special diet?

Those foods he's currently on are for cats with urinary issues (crystals in their urine) AND Diabetes. Is that why he eats those?

Cats with IBD need canned food, 'course, i'm making an assumption that you are feeding dry, since you said you can't tell who's eating the food, but I could be wrong. But no matter what, IMHO, you need to feed him canned food. For uriniary tract issues, he needs lots of moisture, for diabetes, he needs very low carbs, and for possible IBD, he also needs low carbs and no grains. All of that mains NO KIBBLE.

Just for your reading pleasure, here is a website on IBD, and even if he isn't diagnosed with it, the foods recommended for IBD cats are good foods for ANY cat, even your other one is throws up a LOT. He may have IBD! http://www.ibdkitties.net/

ldg · Apr 30, 2013

Basically, what's best for him - at any point in time, but especially if he appears to have IBD (and he has diabetes?), is a low-carb, grain-free, meat-based wet food diet.

Just to add to sites that are helpful:

http://www.catinfo.org

Specifically as re: urinary health: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

And for diabetes:

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com/

You'll see the theme: high protein, low carb, wet food only.

And I agree - given the dramatic weight loss, you need a second opinion or a new vet. I don't want to scare you, but in our Lazlo, the problem turned out to be cancer. I wouldn't let this go. :rub:

redsmom79 · May 1, 2013

Catzarella said:
Do not play around. The minute you see vomiting, get him to the vet. Take note how the cat vomits and poops. Is it projectile? Is your cat putting out red blood or maroon? Show your vet the stool sample for color. Don't let your geri-cat become dehydrated. I guess his geri-panel did not show liver disease? Good luck.

Well, he vomits at least once a week, but that's nothing new. What IS new is that he'll sometimes vomit near the poop. This has always been overnight, so I don't know if he's doing it right at the same time or what. His labs showed absolutely nothing wrong. The stool sample I gave the vet had bright red blood and some mucus. He still has some of the metronidazole to finish.

mrsgreenjeens said:
Those foods he's currently on are for cats with urinary issues (crystals in their urine) AND Diabetes. Is that why he eats those?

Cats with IBD need canned food, 'course, i'm making an assumption that you are feeding dry, since you said you can't tell who's eating the food, but I could be wrong. But no matter what, IMHO, you need to feed him canned food. For uriniary tract issues, he needs lots of moisture, for diabetes, he needs very low carbs, and for possible IBD, he also needs low carbs and no grains. All of that mains NO KIBBLE.

Just for your reading pleasure, here is a website on IBD, and even if he isn't diagnosed with it, the foods recommended for IBD cats are good foods for ANY cat, even your other one is throws up a LOT. He may have IBD! http://www.ibdkitties.net/

He had huge bladder stones surgically removed years ago (he showed no signs until he was almost gone), and that's when he was put on the c/d. He was put on w/d a few years ago when he'd gotten up to 16 lbs (not for diabetes, and he did get down to 14 lbs with the w/d; now he's dropped to 12 lbs over the past month or so). The w/d is wet, but the c/d is dry, and that's what he got most often.

Yesterday, I picked up some wet and dry Nature's Variety and he ate all of what I gave him. That brand came up in my googling, so I gave it a shot. And now I see from your link that it's recommended by that site as well. I guess I'll hold back on the dry for now.

LDG: My initial thought was cancer as well, but would something have shown up in the senior panel? Did you notice any other changes in your cat? Mine has been behaving perfectly fine.

vball91 · May 1, 2013

Vomiting after pooping could be a sign of constipation which could account for the blood as well.

redsmom79 · May 1, 2013

vball91 said:
Vomiting after pooping could be a sign of constipation which could account for the blood as well.

I had the "pleasure" of watching him go on my carpet, and he did get out some liquid at first, then moved to another spot and strained out a little something. The next morning, I found a much more normal poop (on the carpet again). I also found that he'd tried to go near his box first, then came upstairs to do the rest. Maybe he's associating the box with bad feelings these days.

I'm hoping to see some improvement off the dry food. He still has his appetite, but I think he just wasn't all that interested in the dry c/d anymore. He'll eat anything else.

ldg · May 1, 2013

RedsMom79 said:
LDG: My initial thought was cancer as well, but would something have shown up in the senior panel? Did you notice any other changes in your cat? Mine has been behaving perfectly fine.

No, cancer is usually only detectable in blood work as anemia, if it's gotten to the point it causes it. Cancer is not diagnosed via blood work.

By the time Lazlo's cancer was discovered, it was very advanced. In the last month, while the vets were scrambling to figure out what was happening, he went from 13 pounds to 9, his coat looked horrible, and he was hiding under a chair. But at that point, when diagnosed, he was given 4 weeks to live. It could have been found much earlier via abdominal ultrasound.

********************************

....and good point about the vomit being near the poop. Kitties straining to poop can definitely throw up, and this happens when there's a problem with constipation.

mrsgreenjeens · May 1, 2013

I've never had a cat with bladder stones, but from what I've read, the c/d diet DOES help with it. But I've also read that they need plenty of moisture. Does he drink well? Since you are taking him off of that, I'm sure you will watch him closely for any of the telltale signs, but you might add some water to his new Nature's Variety canned just to make sure. I'm so glad he's liking that new food!

To me, it's a tough call when there really are issues with stones, because you definitely don't want them to reoccur. Laurie, doesn't Tuxie have issues in that area too? I know there are others here who are opposed to feeding the c/d, but don't know exactly what they feed (Laurie, I know what YOU feed

, but don't know about others )

As far as the constipation, it definitely sounds like that is an issue, and hopefully moving him to an all wet diet will help in that area. kibble is so drying and full of junk, it causes so many problems

redsmom79 · May 2, 2013

I'll be taking him to the vet first thing this morning. He's been puking and squirting blood/bloody mucus from his butt all morning, and now he's crouched in my room.

redsmom79 · May 2, 2013

RedsMom79 said:
I'll be taking him to the vet first thing this morning. He's been puking and squirting blood/bloody mucus from his butt all morning, and now he's crouched in my room.

UPDATE: He dropped a few more ounces, but he's still fine otherwise. They put a pocket of fluid under his skin and sent us home with a stool softener to start with. The vet could feel a little poop in there, and when she was working his stomach, a little of the non-poop nastiness came out. If the stool softener doesn't work, she also gave me a steroid. But if I opt for an ultrasound, we'll have to do that before he starts the steroid. And if none of THAT works, there's some other med we can try to stimulate his colon. Here's to hoping the stool softener works.

peaches08 · May 2, 2013

Maybe adding some water to his canned food will help too.

redsmom79 · May 13, 2013

Update and cry for help: I gave up on the Lactulose. It seemed to be making him gassy and maybe crampy, and it really wasn't softening anything. He did pass a massive (I do mean massive....like, who let the big dog in) dry stool about a week ago, and since then, I haven't seen him straining. I tried to go the Miralax and pumpkin route, and he ate a little, but he apparently doesn't like pumpkin.

Now he just has liquid poo all the time and everywhere, and he's not eating. Or at least he's not eating what I specifically give him. I checked the "main" dish this morning and it looks like he might have eaten some of that food (2 cats, so I don't know). But I'm petting bones at this point, so if he is eating, it's just a literal nibble here and there. I haven't given him any kind of medication in the past few days. I'm trying to get the prednisone into him, to no avail. I haven't been able to shove it down or squirt it in, and he's not eating, so mixing it in his food doesn't work. I'm just at a loss and it's making me sad.

goholistic · May 13, 2013

One of my three cats, Boo, is also 13 years old and has had worsening constipation over the past 5 years. He has lost some weight, mainly muscle mass. Otherwise, he's in pretty good health for his age. Under the care of a vet, he's on Miralax and Benefiber daily in his wet food with extra water added, plus an occasional probiotic supplement. His diet is grain-free and he only gets a little dry food (like 1 tablespoon per day). He's had three "episodes" of severe straining (the first was the trip to the vet), which caused the runny, bloody liquid stuff, and his stools were impacted. He would try to go anywhere in the house since he would associate the litter box with the discomfort, so I would have to put him in the bathroom with his own disposable litter box and an old towel to lay on. With some tricks up my sleeve, he would eventually go, but he would still continue to push for about 20 minutes until the feeling went away. Mind you, the anus is very sore at this point, and I had to give him some Bach's Rescue Remedy for Pets to help relax him.

If your cat is getting backed up frequently, it may cause discomfort internally, and any pain or discomfort can cause a cat not to eat. I don't know what canned foods you're feeding him, but you could try some really stinky foods. I find that the new Nutro Natural Choice canned foods are very stinky. I use them when I'm desperate to get Boo to eat. The EVO 95% varieties are also pretty stinky...at least to my nose they are!

Miralax is water-soluble, so you could always mix it with a small amount of warm water and give it to him via a syringe. If you do this, it's important that you go very slow and that the cat is sitting normal (not upside down!) or you run of the risk of pulmonary aspiration.

peaches08 · May 13, 2013

You might ought to take him to the vet. Little bits of diarrhea can be due to an obstruction.

Many positive vibes sent your way!

redsmom79 · May 13, 2013

I got him to eat some plain boiled chicken, and most of a crushed Prednisone tablet in a pill pocket. He seems to avoid the dish I was putting the "medicined" food in, but he went right to his old bowl. I'll stick with chicken for now, and hopefully the Prednisone will work, if I can keep getting it into him.

ETA: It's actually Prednisolone.

chloespriestess · May 14, 2013

(I am not a vet, so I suggest you consult your vet on this as well.)

It looks to me like a severe constipation. The blood, mucus, inappropriate elimination, his dry food diet and the fact that lab work shows nothing all seem to point to that.

If you see diarrhea along constipation, it's because the newly formed stool is being pushed around the hard stool that is impacting the colon. For the same reason, you might see your cat with soiled anus.

Cats have naturally low thirst drive, so when they are on dry food diet they tend to develop this problem.

catinfo.org is very informative on feline nutrition. I would like you to look at it when you have time. (No, I'm not the writer of the site.)

Most important thing right now is to hydrate him. If he likes wet food, great, you can give him a little wet food along with his regular food. (NOT instead of. This is important. If he is used to dry food, he may not eat it, but he must eat something. Cats who do not get enough food for as short as a day or two can die of Liver failure. Catinfo.org talks about this too.) You might want to eventually switch his diet to all wet eventually, but do so very, very slooooooooooowly over a period; you really don't want to risk liver failure. Switching food might take as long as a few months. Catinfo.org tells you how to switch food as well.

Look for food that is low fiber and high protein. Kitten food often fits this bill, and it's often more palatable to finicky eaters.The website has food label page that is very helpful. You might want to have him stay off commercial treats while he gets better. I think it's good that he likes real chicken. That means he may not be an incurable dry food addict!

You might also want to invest in automatic water fountain for cats. (The one you plug in, not the upside-down-plastic-bottle kind. Cheaper ones can be had for about $30.) It will encourage him to drink more water. You can also put several water bowl throughout the house. Some cats like to drink out of mugs or glasses.

Miralax is often recommended over lactulose now as a laxative, though it has to be given with food. You might have to put it in a gelatin capsule to give it to him. You can also give him water by oral syringe.

For pilling, I recommend Pill Pockets Duck and Pea Allergy formula (No grain to cause more trouble). Not all cats go for it, but if yours do, it's a God send.

Best of luck!

redsmom79 · May 16, 2013

Chloespriestess said:
(I am not a vet, so I suggest you consult your vet on this as well.)

It looks to me like a severe constipation. The blood, mucus, inappropriate elimination, his dry food diet and the fact that lab work shows nothing all seem to point to that.

If you see diarrhea along constipation, it's because the newly formed stool is being pushed around the hard stool that is impacting the colon. For the same reason, you might see your cat with soiled anus.

Cats have naturally low thirst drive, so when they are on dry food diet they tend to develop this problem.

catinfo.org is very informative on feline nutrition. I would like you to look at it when you have time. (No, I'm not the writer of the site.)

Most important thing right now is to hydrate him. If he likes wet food, great, you can give him a little wet food along with his regular food. (NOT instead of. This is important. If he is used to dry food, he may not eat it, but he must eat something. Cats who do not get enough food for as short as a day or two can die of Liver failure. Catinfo.org talks about this too.) You might want to eventually switch his diet to all wet eventually, but do so very, very slooooooooooowly over a period; you really don't want to risk liver failure. Switching food might take as long as a few months. Catinfo.org tells you how to switch food as well.

Look for food that is low fiber and high protein. Kitten food often fits this bill, and it's often more palatable to finicky eaters.The website has food label page that is very helpful. You might want to have him stay off commercial treats while he gets better. I think it's good that he likes real chicken. That means he may not be an incurable dry food addict!

You might also want to invest in automatic water fountain for cats. (The one you plug in, not the upside-down-plastic-bottle kind. Cheaper ones can be had for about $30.) It will encourage him to drink more water. You can also put several water bowl throughout the house. Some cats like to drink out of mugs or glasses.

Miralax is often recommended over lactulose now as a laxative, though it has to be given with food. You might have to put it in a gelatin capsule to give it to him. You can also give him water by oral syringe.

For pilling, I recommend Pill Pockets Duck and Pea Allergy formula (No grain to cause more trouble). Not all cats go for it, but if yours do, it's a God send.

Best of luck!

I'm really not sure if it's constipation AND diarrhea, or just diarrhea at this point. He did pass a really, really big (I felt SO bad for him) hard, dry stool last week, and he hasn't had anything solid come out since. He's only vomited once since then, and there was wet poo there as well. He is eating now, though, whereas before the big poop, he barely looked at his dish at all. I have him eating wet Nature's Variety along with the plain boiled chicken, and he's getting Miralax once a day. Maybe he needs more??? I tried pumpkin but he doesn't like it. He's also getting the Prednisolone twice a day (5 mg). At first, he seemed to perk up just enough to be noticeable, but he's not feeling so good tonight.

Another thing: his poo has gone from medium brown liquid to a dark brown, stickier liquid (not old, dark blood, just regular poo color).

I've been searching the forums for more info on slippery elm bark. I'm willing to try it, but I have a feeling he won't eat it.

Gastric (?) issues and weight loss

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