Feline Giardia and Herpes

Hi,

This is Rita, my first cat. Sorry about the other


photo, but I thought it might be helpful. We bought Rita from a private party that was permitted to sell her at a local pet store. She had already been neutered and had 2 rounds of shots, and de-worming. But no mention about the fact she was a feral, and also sick. We found that out later after taking her to the vet, when she was diagnosed with feline herpes and giardia. The vet told us the stickers placed on the paperwork we were given, indicated she had problems, but was not something that would have been evident to a lay person. And the lady who sold her to us never said a word. When we contacted her later, she was very apologetic, but that was it.

Rita is about 9 months now. Her stool was very loose from the beginning. Vet put her on an antibiotic, but didn't seem to do any good. Then another called Metronidazole. Had her on this one for about 10-12 days. Still no change. Then I spoke with someone at another pet store who told us we needed to replace the "Good" bacteria destroyed by the Antibiotics. Sold me some Bene-Bac Plus in the small tubes, which I placed in her food. Gave her a couple of tubes in her food over the course of about 3 days. Then in about a day she had a normal stool...I thought we were finally out of the woods! Unfortunately this lasted only a day or two, and now we're back to what you see in the picture...although it's not always bloody. Well, I'm assuming that's blood?

I've also been giving her L-lysine in powder form for the herpes. About 1/4 tsp. mixed into food daily. Also mixed the antibiotics and Bene Bac Plus into her food, as opposed to trying to force it down her throat. we've been living with these messy and frequent stools that often don't make it to the cat box. I know it can't be very pleasant for her either. Poor thing probably has frequent stomach aches, though she never complains!

Any help would sure be appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,


Jeff

Oh, I'm so sorry! But it's really not uncommon with rescue kitties (even if they're not labeled as rescues!) to have to sort out their GI system function - and it can be frustrating and take some work.

When we rescued our Chumley, he had horrible diarrhea. In the end, he was treated for parasites including "bad" bacteria, giardia, etc. But his problem was a GI system that was just completely out-of-whack. He did need lysine - but at the time, the lysine turned his diarrhea into explosive diarrhea. For kitties with upset digestive systems, lysine can be a problem.

So, first things first. In what country are you located?

Next, food is obviously a HUGE factor in what comes out - even when there are no bacteria/parasite/illness problems. What are you feeding her?

And yes, I'm sure her tummy (and probably her bum) hurt.

Also, has the vet done a full fecal? In addition to giardia, did they checked for coccidia, T. Foetus, various strains of clostridium? Those all need to be ruled out too.

In the meantime, put her on a bland diet, and consider stopping the lysine for now (temporarily). She can safely be feed just plain boiled poached chicken for several weeks. And while many see results with Bene-Bac, I suggest a higher strength probiotic with active cultures in it. The Bene-bac doesn't have live strains, and only has something like 4 billion CFU (colony forming units) in it. I don't know where you live, but if there's a health food store near you, ask for the best human acidophilus supplement they have. You want something with 10 billion CFU, live cultures (which most human probiotics are). I use for my cats (and myself and my husband!) Natural Factors Acidophilus + Bifidus with goat milk, double-strength.
Actually, we ended up seeing a holistic vet to resolve Chumley's problem. The first thing she had us do was give him a mixture twice a day of slippery elm bark powder ( http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/ ), aloe vera juice, and the probiotic, added to his food (we just mixed it with the chicken broth and shredded chicken).

The directions are: 1/4 teaspoon slippery elm bark powder. Add 1 teaspoon of George's Aloe Vera Juice (if you're in Canada or the U.S. It has to be George's, which most health food stores carry - I think many Walmarts also carry it - because organic aloe vera juice is very bitter, so cats won't eat it, but George's is the only non-organic aloe vera juice with no preservatives added to it). Let it "gel up" for a minute or two - stir it up. Mix in the probiotic, and add it to the food. If you can't find George's Aloe Vera Juice, just use plain water.

I'd start with this once a day, see how she takes to it. If it doesn't make things worse, then up it to twice a day.

With the bland diet, if things settle down, then you know it's not a problem with parasites or bacteria, and the problem is the food you're feeding her.

For starters on what's best for cats, this is an excellent site: http://www.catinfo.org. Cats are obligate carnivores, and many cats do not do well with carbohydrates. Pet food manufacturers don't like to let us know that, because carbs are cheap. But cats have no requirement for them, and they can cause a lot of digestive problems.

So if you're able, at least put her on the bland diet to let things settle down. If you can find slippery elm bark powder (our local health food store sells it loose, and it's very inexpensive that way), so much the better. But even if you can't find that, please try a higher strength, live culture acidophilus suppement, and see if that helps.

Please keep us posted, and we can help with other ideas and food suggestions. But knowing where you live, and what's been tested, tried, and what food you're feeding will all help.

Vibes for you and your baby girl!

OH! If you're in the U.S., you can see if there's a holistic vet you can get to. When it comes to GI-problems, a vet that is additionally trained in Chinese Medicine can be a REAL help! You can search to find one here: http://www.ahvma.org

Thanks you so much LDG for the wealth of information. Sorry I took so long to respond. I can see I have some homework and experimentation ahead of me. But I'm looking forward to it because I really want Rita to be well. Now you've given me some hope! I will definitely report back with my progress. And Thanks again. I really, really appreciate your time and effort on my behalf.

Sincerely,

Jeff

PS. And Please excuse my blunder, referring to Rita as having been "neutered" as opposed to "spayed."

Sorry LDG, I got so caught up in reading about what I need to do , I forgot to answer your initial questions. I live in the Sacramento Ca. area USA. I'm pretty sure the vet did a full fecal test. They did quite a few tests, but I need to call and confirm that.

As far as her diet goes, I've been giving her a mixture of wet food (Weruva Outback Grill - BPA and Grain Free), along with a mixture of regular store bought kitten food (Dry). In the last day or so I switched out the cheap dry food for a little better quality dry called, Purina ONE Beyond. It's a salmon and whole brown rice mix, along with cranberries, tomatoes, and spinach. Supposedly has no corn, wheat, fillers or preservatives.

Yesterday my wife bought a box of the generic version of Align? 4X Digestive care Probiotic. With four strains of healthy bacteria including Bifidobacterium infantis. Each capsule contains 5 billion active cultures. We also have Hartz Precision Nutrition adult cat multi vitamin with PRE-biotics?. No fillers in this but my wife realized today that it does contain yeast.

Anyway, we gave Rita her first capsule of the pro biotics sprinkled on her food last night, and her first chewable multi vitamin, which she happily ate. Well, today has not been good, bad diarrhea, and once she didn't even make it to the cat box. Oh Lord, what am I going to do...

Not sure where to begin. Thanks.

Jeff 

PS. Oh, and she has been off the Lysine for a couple days now.

I would take her for a second opinion.  I would also ask the vet to test her for tritrichemonas foetus http://www.highgait.com/page/page/3485008.htm  .  This requires a special test that is not performed via the regular fecal float test at the vet's office.  This has to be sent off to the lab.

Was she having these diarrhea problems at the lady you adopted her from?  It could very well be that she cannot tolerate the new food or you switched her too quickly.  You might want to ask the vet for a prescription for a food for sensitive stomachs.  I have one cat who cannot do completely grain free, so he gets some grain free kibble along with Royal Canin Gastrointestinal HE (high energy) to keep the runs at bay.  He does well on canned grain-free, but not on dry grain-free. 

Until you get her to the vet again, I'd keep her on a bland diet, as recommended above.  

We got a young Bengal (somewhere between 2 and 4 years old) as a rescue, and she has had terrible diarrhea ever since we got her in August. She was six pounds and emaciated, and her poor little butt was red and sore. We have tried all sorts of interventions. She has had all kinds of blood work, cultures, and an ultrasound with aspiration biopsy to rule out lymphoma.

She has been on both metronidazole and tylosin intermittently, she has had worming treatments, negative PCR for T. foetus ... in short, she seems very healthy but right now she has just come off metronidazole again and after two days she is already pooping all over the house; sometimes she makes it to the box and sometimes she just can't. We've changed her diet numerous times, sometimes careful and gradually and sometimes overnight because we had a bad day and thought we had discovered the culprit. 

We started giving her the same foods our other two cats eat, but that was no good. We did some research and then tried grain-free food. No good. The vet put her on soy-based "hypoallergenic" food. No. We tried her on plain chicken, and on canned "Fussie Cat" with chicken and shrimp. Explosion! OK, we thought it might have been the chicken. Put her on grain-free diet without chicken (hard to find). That was better than the one with the chicken but still not good. The vet put her on a diabetic low-carb kibble. No. We put her on EVO canned beef, no grains or chicken. That wasn't too bad but she was still nowhere near normal, still having accidents with blood and mucus besides.

I souped up the canned beef with probiotic powder and warm water to make it gentler on her still angry tummy. That plus another round of "metro" got her to the point where she could make it to the box. After her ultrasound, the veterinary internal medicine specialist put her on canned Royal Canin low-cal, high-fiber food and more metro. At least she really likes this food; she eats ravenously and was making it to the box as long as the metro held up. Now we are off it again. We were foolish enough to clean the carpet during the couple of weeks she was doing fair, but after two days with no antibiotic, she's about to make us forget we cleaned it.

We're waiting to discuss this latest trend with the regular vet again, after consultation with yet more specialists, internal medicine and GI. We are holding off on endoscopy/colonoscopy because it will probably show one of two things:  She has undiscovered TF, or she has IBD.  

Treatment for the first is a fairly dangerous drug. Treatment for the second is probably a lifetime on prednisolone. Tomorrow we'll get the recommendation.

So, for everyone else in the same boat, my sympathies and complete understanding! Maybe putting all of our collective heads together will solve the puzzle.

Oh, yeah -- The little beauty above is not the poo-cat. The photo shows my beloved Tess, lost to lymphoma in June 2012. She was 14 years old. 

So Sorry to hear about your cat. Your situation sounds so much worse than mine, and I thought mine was pretty bad. I'm sorry I can't be much help, but this is a very active forum with lots of great people and great advice...so hang in there and don't lose hope. I wish you, and your kitty well.

Sincerely,

Jeff

Wow all of your situations sounds similar to mine. 
I have a rescue Russian blue named Abu. She was found wondering the street acting drunk (she was only about 4ish weeks old) Shes 4lbs and was FINE until after her spay. After her spay she was fine for a few months but then got bad diarrhea. We had her tested for just about everything. She always came back healthy but still had the runs. And smelled horrible. She wouldn't make it to the litterbox very much. Finally they said she had Giardia, and we did the treatment. 
She also has herpes and is treated with L-Lysine. Could it be possible she still has Giardia? Because she stopped the runs for about 2 weeks after the treatment then it started back up again. Only without her smelling so horrible. She doesn't have the runs as bad when I give her l-lysine twice a day. 
We feed out cats friskies indoor life, We can't change food because our other cat has a stress induced seizure disorder. -_- (We have 6 cats, All rescues) We recently started mixing Purina One beyond salmon. Oh and I mix a powder probiotic on top of their food. Seems to somewhat keep Abus runs under control.
Shes been to the vet so many times within the last year and spent close or over $1000 on tests along with her spay was $300.. :/ 

I should say, All my other cats plus the ones I babysit on occasion are all perfectly healthy. No runs. Thankfully. haha

- Emily